Configure scene without changing device state?

[SoCal Rob]

Hello-

 

Before moving on to my question, I am open to the concept that I am doing something incorrectly and this is *entirely* my fault.

 

Here is the background for my question:

I have a number of dimmers that control track heads with low voltage transformers. The transformers, when dimmed, seem to create noise. Not enough noise to interfere with normal use as the modules respond fine to commands when dimmed but I have problems programming them. Whenever I change the dimming level of one of these in a scene, the ISY sets the device to that dimmed level. While convenient for verifying, this is self-defeating for me since the ISY invariably cannot communicate with the device that it just dimmed to write the scene. Typically I turn the device full on or off via the ISY and then force the ISY to write the pending data to the device.

 

Here is my question:

Is it possible to modify a scene and write the modifications as necessary without the ISY actually changing the devices first?

 

If not possible then I have a suggestion:

When making lots of changes to a scene (or setting up a scene with a lot of devices) it would be nice if there were a check box "Apply changes in real time." With the box checked, the ISY would behave as it does now. With the box unchecked, you could adjust all of the sliders without altering the state of the devices in the scene. The scene programming would be done as a separate step using a save changes button or something similar.

 

I suspect that others may be encountering this same issue so changing this may result in fewer communications issues. Sorry for the novel and thank you.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Rob,

 

First of all you are not doing anything wrong!

 

There's a batch function which in PRO series which lets you do all the changes (batch them up) and then submit them for writing. I am not sure if the cost of upgrading to PRO ($30.00) justifies what you want to do: modify your scenes without ISY controlling the loads. In short, once you are done with modifications, you do not plan on changing them continuously and thus PRO would be an overkill.

 

Above and beyond that, I am not sure what else to suggest .. is it possible to unplug the transformers while programming?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[LeeG]

SoCal Rob

 

As a side question, are those low voltage transformers rated for dimming without a special dimmer. Many are not and dimming will shorten the life span of the transformer.

 

Lee

[Brian H]

Could also damage the Insteon switch's. If the transformers are not rated to be dimmed.

The dimmer switch manuals all caution on using them with inductive loads like transformers.

 

The clue maybe when dimmed the communications to the switches suffers.

[SoCal Rob]

Michel-

 

Each track head has a built-in transformer and the track follows an angled ceiling from 9 feet to 15 feet above the floor. In my case removing even the lowest one requires the use of a ladder so removing them all to get reliable programming would be a lot of work. The upgrade to PRO for batch changes sounds worth it to me and I appreciate the suggestion. I will give it a try.

 

Lee & Brian-

 

Excellent questions about the transformers and the safety/longevity issues. I apologize for omitting that important detail in my original post. Yes, the track heads use a dimmable solid state electronic transformer per the manufacturer. They were purchased with my Insteon setup in mind.

 

I really appreciate the help and I wish all of you the best in 2011!

[oberkc]

It seems to me that the LV lighting systems are part of frequent speculation about causing interference when on. While I don't have a system like yours, I have some LED-based fixtures with power supplies. These required a filter between the switch and fixture to work properly (they turned on reliably, but not off).

 

While you might get by programming these with the pro version, if you are experiencing communication issues, this will manifest itself in ways beyond programming, and it will not be good. Other than programming, is your insteon system working reliably?

[SoCal Rob]

oberkc-

 

Yes, other than programming everything works very reliably. I assume that programming requires more bi-directional communications and with more data than regular operations and thus is more sensitive to the interference.

 

I was doing some investigating in the forums and discovered that I also have a SwitchLinc Relay v.35 and a SwitchLinc Dimmer v.35 that appear to be known trouble-makers. I guess I need to ask SmartHome about swapping them.

 

Even with all of what I am describing it is way, WAY more reliable than my former X10 setup which had reliability issues in everyday use. At least I only have communication symptoms when programming and normal use is rock-solid, even with my low voltage track heads dimmed and my two v.35 devices.

 

I think that the PRO upgrade will do all that I need to eliminate this one annoyance. Thank you very much.

[paulw]

Just a side note. I have at least 10 magnetic transformers on insteon dimmers and have never had any issues. Many of them are used daily, and have been in use for years.

 

Paul

[SoCal Rob]

Hello-

 

I upgraded to the Pro version and I tried making a change to a device setting in a scene while in batch mode (11010 button gray and NOT green). The device I was adjusting was immediately turned on to the selected setting and I received an "Error" window "Request Failed" followed by a window with a title bar of "Failed Communicating With" and text of "Cannot Communicate With . Please check connections."

 

This behavior matches what happened before I upgraded. I thought that once in batch mode changes wouldn't be made to the device until I clicked the 11010. At that point the button would go from gray to green and ISY would write all pending changes to all devices in a batch.

 

This doesn't sound right or seem like a communication issue so here are some more details:

ISY 99i Pro running firmware v.2.8.10

Mac OS X 10.6.5 Snow Leopard

Java SE 6 64-bit 1.6.0_22-b04-307 (primary)

Java SE 6 32-bit 1.6.0_22-b04-307 (secondary)

Exited all browsers, cleared Java cache (even the deleted items) and tried again with the same result.

 

Please let me know if other diagnostic information is needed or if I should be posting this in a different version. Thank you very much.

[SoCal Rob]

Brian-

 

Yes, as I tried to explain in my "Batch mode: Am I doing it wrong?" post the 11010 button was gray and NOT green.

 

On my Admin Console the 11010 button in the toolbar is the same as File > Automatic Writes to Devices and clicking either one changes the state of both. I thought that for both gray = off = batch versus green = on = immediate. Is that correct? If so, my system behaves the same (immediate writes) regardless of the state of this control. Again, any help is appreciated.

[Brian H]

I reread your previous post and that is why I removed my response.

I did read that you had the icon in the Grey state.

You must have found the reply before I removed it.

 

That is the way I understand it. Gery is batch mode and green is immediate.

 

I am sure the folks at UDI will clarify this for both of us.

 

All I can find in the wiki.

http://www.universal-devices.com/mwiki/ ... 99i_Pro.29

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi SoCalRob,

 

I do apologize if I was not clear in my previous post: the immediate level setting is not affected by batch mode. The Programming part is. So, you can ignore all those errors and when you are done, turn everything off and then turn on the batch mode. This will program all your scenes to the what you had them programmed to and since all your devices are now off, they should be programmed without a problem.

 

With kind regards,

Michel