Failed communicating with...

[barkster]

I've always hated X10 and really wanted to go with z-wave but z-wave doesn't have the devices I want so I bought and ISY-99i from smarthome the other day. I talked with support before purchase to ensure my system would work because I've always had terrible luck with x10. They told me all I would need is ISy-99i, dual-band PLM and one access point. I installed everything and confirmed my Access point was on different phase. My system works about of the time. It's seems that everything turns off fine but I cannot get stuff to turn on at all, it may work 10% of the time. When I do it from the 99i I get the error below

 

failed communicating with

 

cannot communicate with (19 E3 C0 1) please check connections

 

Is there any way to get this to work, I'm starting to feel just like I did with my x10 crap... I'll probably be sending it all back monday if I cannot get it work at least 95% of the time.

 

Any suggestions?

[LeeG]

barkster

 

Generally Insteon is much more reliable than X10. However if there are significant powerline issues that were not resolved while using X10 they may be in play here.

 

Some things to evaluate.

 

Are there devices (other than ISY PLM) that have been cross-linked with Scenes? If so do these devices communicate with each other successfully?

 

Are the control issues limited to the ISY PLM control of devices? A common source of problems here are plugging the ISY PLM into a surge suppression strip and/or plugging the PLM on the same circuit as a UPS or PC equipment where a FilterLinc is not isolating that equipment from the powerline. They can attenuate the signal level from the PLM to the point where it may be unreliable.

 

Some cell phone chargers can completely wipe out powerline communication.

 

Are all the devices unreliable or only devices on a particular circuit or area of the house?

 

Phase coupling is very important. It sounds like the access point and plm are on opposite phases and have communication from the 4 tap Set button test. Sometimes moving the access point to a different location (still on opposite phase) can improve phase coupling.

 

If you can fill in some of the blanks I'm sure a more reliable environment can be established. May take longer than this weekend but with patience and good analysis the issues can be identified and resolved.

 

Lee

[apostolakisl]

this is unusual to be able to turn off fine, but not on, more often the opposite is the problem. When you have a signal sucker or noise producer, it does not affect the system until it is on (or at least has power going to its transformer). So if you have something behind an Insteon switch that is a sucker/noiser then it should not be able to affect the system until that switch is on.

 

I would suggest you get dual band everything. If I were starting my system right now, I would go with all dual band. Power line issue would theoretically be gone. This would make your system function like z-wave, but without the issues that z-wave has of re-linking should you move something. Also, ISY is a spectacular HA device that wouldn't work with zwave. Dual band just don't cost that much more and with the 20% SH sale, they are considerably less expensive then z-wave or upb.

[barkster]

Yeah my x10 only used to come on and I could never get off cause of the flourescent bulbs causing noise. That's why I thought it was weird about the insteon. I think it was that I had my plm plugged into the same outlet as my pc. I've moved everything into my garage next to my breaker box and put the access point on the nearest circuit that is on a different phase. Everything seems to working fine now. Let's hope it stays that way. I do like the ISY-99i other that the ugly interface but not much to work with on such a small appliance.

 

[TJF1960]

What are those silver levers in the middle of your breaker panel? Have never seen anything like that before.

[oberkc]

I think it was that I had my plm plugged into the same outlet as my pc.

 

If I had to guess as to the number-one cause of insteon problems, this would be it. UPS and surge suppressors are known problems with insteon. Power supplies can be. The combination of multiple examples of each of these is a killer. It is even worse when you find people who plug the PLM into the surge supressor or UPS.

 

I say: if you must plug your PLM in the same outlet or circuit as your computer system, then you must filter the computer system. It would be nice if this were not the case, but that is not the world in which we live.

[barkster]

No that's my transfer switch for my generator... Everything was working good till this morning. I think my computer is on the same circuit as many of my lights and when I had it on this morning nothing would work. I'd send commands and nothing would happen. Even after turning off my computer nothing would work. I ended up unplugging plm and 99i and everything started working again with computer off. Tonight I will test again with computer on to see if something was either hung up or my computer was causing the noise on the circuit. Not sure why nothing worked after turning off the computer. Sounds like I'm going to have to spend a bunch of $$ to get it working smoothly which is one of the complaints I've read about insteon. You spend a ton of $$ to get it working and a ton of time tracking down things that make noise on lines.

[LeeG]

barkster

 

If the computer is the problem turning it Off often does not solve the problem. It is the power supply that causes the interference. Try unplugging the computer the next time.

 

The same situation with other appliances that might be causing a problem. With today’s electronic turn On/Off the power supply remains connected so it is necessary to actually unplug a device to see if it is a cause.

 

Lee

[Brian H]

Is the computer on a filter?

If it is on an UPS. Is the UPS filtered?

Many of them can make power line noise or absorb power line signals.

 

You have already experienced X10 which can be worse than Insteon.

[barkster]

sounds like this is going to be a nightmare like x10... yuck... I'm just wasting my money it seems. I'm going to test good tonight but if I have buy filters for everything and have their ugly crap plugged in everywhere I'm going to send it all back. Too bad the technology sucks... this is starting to feel a lot like x10, actually I think it really is same crap.

[LeeG]

barkster

 

Unfortunately all these technologies that utilize and share the existing 120v AC distribution system are exposed to devices that can and do interfere with powerline communication. It is common to need a FilterLinc at the PLM plug point as there is often UPS/PC/AV equipment in the vicinity that can create problems.

 

After that it depends on what other appliances are being used. I found a flat screen TV in a bedroom caused some minor problems. I have two TVs in the living room and neither causes a problem.

 

With some work I feel certain your powerline environment can be cleanup and work reliably.

 

You may find UPB more to your liking. It is about 3X the cost the last time I looked. With a little effort on your end Insteon is a good technology for the price point, much better than X10.

 

Lee

[TJF1960]

I agree 100% with Lee. I felt the same way as you in the beginning but honestly I can not imagine life without ISY!

[barkster]

yeah it isn't the isy that's the problem I like it but it could use an UI overhall bad.. I think I just don't like smarthome stuff... x10 was a joke and their customer support people are rude so I just have a bad taste in my mouth from the start. I'm hoping I can resolve everything with one or two filters. So I should plug my computer/ups into a filter. Someone mentions plugging the plm into filter but it is about a foot from my breaker box and my ups is across the house.

[TJF1960]

If your isy and plm are still as pictured above thats great. PLM should never be plugged into a filter. Use one filter on your ups which will prevent signal suck/noise from your ups and anything plugged into it including your computer.

[barkster]

yep, will do

[apostolakisl]

Not to be a pain and repeat myself, but save yourself the headache and just get dual band switches. Power line noise/sucking won't affect the rf path and provided you don't have metal gang boxes. If you just bought the system, SH should swap out the switches.

[LeeG]

barkster

 

As Tim mentioned the UPS etc plugs into the bottom filtered outlet of the FilterLinc. The PLM cannot be filtered and cannot be plugged into a surge/noise suppression strip.

 

You will be very happy with the UDI support. Compared to Smarthome it is the difference between night and day. Besides the ISY being a great product on its own, the UDI support is excellant. Also the ISY forum users are a great source of information and assistence.

 

Hope you can stick with us.

 

Lee

[Brian H]

You may have been thinking of my setup.

I have my PLM plugged into the Unfiltered Pass Through Outlet on a FilterLinc and the UPS on the Filtered Outlet.

[barkster]

Yeah when I called smarthome before purchasing they told me I wouldn't need dual-band stuff since I purchased a Dualband plm and added an accesspoint so I bought all single band switches. I'll see what happens with the filter on my pc. It seemed to have worked fine till I turned it on.

 

I are the webpages customizable in the 99i? Are they one the sd card in the unit or stored on flash?

[apostolakisl]

Yeah when I called smarthome before purchasing they told me I wouldn't need dual-band stuff since I purchased a Dualband plm and added an accesspoint so I bought all single band switches. I'll see what happens with the filter on my pc. It seemed to have worked fine till I turned it on.

 

I are the webpages customizable in the 99i? Are they one the sd card in the unit or stored on flash?

 

The "webpages" that constitutes the programming console is a java applet, not a website. It is a program that runs on your computer. This console is not intended to be a user interface. It is intended for adminitrating the system.

 

For a user interface you could use "touch switch" which is an html based system that resides on the ISY (the ISY can host a simple website, which is what touchswitch is). Touch switch is nice since you can access your ISY from anything capable of html, no local application install needed. Also there are applications that need to be installed on your local device that integrate with ISY such as mobile linc. These are faster and more feature rich, but you can only use them from devices they are installed on. If you look in the "third party" section of the forum you will see a number of products.

[barkster]

Cool, I'll look into that... BTW, I know the difference between a webpage and an applet

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello barkster,

 

You can have custom website for your ISY if you install the network module ($49.00). As a matter of fact, you can take our open source UDI AJAX, customize it, and upload it to ISY and make the default homepage to be that of your new site.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[barkster]

Cool I looked at it a bit but didn't really find any info on how to interact with the devices etc...

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi barkster,

 

Whatever you do must be client side (i.e. HTML, AJAX, Javascript, Applet, etc.). Here's the link to our latest open source UD AJAX:

http://www.universal-devices.com/develo ... UDAjax.zip . You can use this as the base for your projects and modify the look and feel as much as you wish and deem desirable.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[JMC]

I'm also new to ISY and I'm still working through the communication issues. I'm convinced the PLM is 99% of the problem. The individual devices (mostly 2476D SwitchLincs) were communicating with their links just fine but many of them now have problems communicating with the PLM (a 2413S dual band). I bought a second PLM just in case but it behaved the same as the first so I returned it.

 

I have all of my computer and entertainment equipment filtered as well as all battery chargers except the Ryobi charger for power tool batteries and it spends most of its time unplugged. Collectively the filters have made a significant improvement but haven't been a complete solution yet. Right now I suspect that some Christmas decorations are causing part of the problem, especially since communications today were nearly perfect all day until the decorations came on.

 

I haven't seen a schematic for the SH FilterLinc but I"m assuming it is not significantly different from a Leviton 6287 or 6288. I have one motion sensor switch that appears to be causing problems so I plan to install a 6287 on it.

 

When filtering, don't forget the ISY's power pack. While the PLM obviously cannot be filtered the ISY power supply definitely should be. When I first installed my ISY-99i I had both the power pack and PLM on the same outlet. Moving the power pack to a different circuit with a filter made a very significant improvement.

 

I do have two Access Points plugged in to the branch opposite the PLM. They seem to provide some improvement but since my house is wired with wall switches and outlets mostly on separate circuits it is less than ideal.

 

Switching to all dual-band devices is not an option I want to consider, I have too many and most are way too old to exchange. I'm hoping a couple of 2477D dual-band Switchlincs on different branches will help if I can find the best places to install them. Does anyone have a good suggestion for determining the best place for a dual-band device other than trial and error?

 

I sure hope someone develops and sells a PLM that communicates at least as well as a SwitchLinc. All the Access Points and FilterLincs are making the house look like a kluge and I get reminded of that fact very regularly by my very non-technical wife.