Water temperature sensor

[binaryman]

We really need a water temperature sensor... for pools and hot tubs, and even lakes. I've seen a lot of people request this. Can this be looked into?

[apostolakisl]

You may already know this. But, a CAI webcontrol board with one-wire temp sensors can be synced to ISY using WCLink running on a PC. It isn't perfect since you need the syncing software, but it isn's expensive and it is ethernet linked making distant sites easy to monitor.

[binaryman]

Yeah, I just want something simple to monitor my hot tub.

 

There are a ton of 'messy' ways to do it, but I don't want to have to run a computer, and want to be able to run programs based on the temperature, and don't want to spend an arm and a leg.

[jca001]

binaryman:

 

How does ~$50. for a CAIWC and $30.00 to $100.00 for a Plug Computer that uses about 5 Watts of power sound?

 

I know there is already a solution that requires a PC running Windows I believe. I am working on a solution that uses a Plug Computer running Linux that will poll the CAIWC and update ISY.

[apostolakisl]

binaryman:

 

How does ~$50. for a CAIWC and $30.00 to $100.00 for a Plug Computer that uses about 5 Watts of power sound?

 

I know there is already a solution that requires a PC running Windows I believe. I am working on a solution that uses a Plug Computer running Linux that will poll the CAIWC and update ISY.

 

 

That is a cool little "pc". Where are they sold for $100? That product really interests me as a controller for an inventory management system I designed.

[binaryman]

if it does the job.. what is a CAIWC, and what kind of computer are you talking about? like a pico or something?

[apostolakisl]

Do you really need the cai? Seems like you could use a 1-wire to usb adapter. http://www.hobby-boards.com/catalog/pro ... ts_id=1503 and plug the temp sensors directly into the "plug" computer. I assume they linux drivers for 1-wire. From there you would need a linux app that posted the data to isy on some schedule.

 

Of course that 1-wire usb adapter isn't all that much cheaper than a cai.

[jca001]

CAIWC is a CAI-WebControl little black box sort of. It has analog and digit inputs and temperature inputs via 1-wire. The Plug Computer (Pogoplug V2) can be had for less than $30.00 from eBay.com and buy.com and other places. It is really a Media Cloud device that is already running a version of Linux that has been stripped down some and other software installed to run the Pogo App. It has 4 USB ports and you can load ARCLinux on a USB stick and boot it. This is pretty much a full version of Linux and you can install other things from a repository.

 

I have written a Perl Program that polls the CAIWC for all the information it can provide, input and output status and temperature values. There is a configuration file where you specify what ISY variable (has to be a state variable) you want updated when a value changes. There are parameters to contorl the polling interval down to 5 seconds and what threshold value change before the ISY is updated, and forcing an ISY update at a certain interval as well. This is so if the ISY is rebooted and the value does not change for a while the ISY will get updated within a certain time frame. It also polls the the ISY at certain intervals in case variable names are added or deleted.

 

It is still work in progress on my Big Linux PC. But I have a PogoPlug and have loaded the ARCLinux on it, but still getting things all in place and will run the CAIWC program on it soon. Total money invested so far is less than $100.00, that includes the CAIWC, PgogPlug and (4) 1-wire Tempature sensors. The CAIWC has 1 humidity sensor inptut but I don't have one yet.

[binaryman]

And the sensors are waterproof? Can you keep me posted? I'm very interested. I assume this will requre the networking package on the ISY?

[TJF1960]

I am interested as well. If you need a beta tester I am available.

 

Thanks,

Tim

[jca001]

binaryman:

You will have to do some research on 1-wire devices. There are all kinds and I am sure there is one that is water proof. The CAIWC states only a couple of temperature units it will work with, but there are various packaging they come in.

 

TJF1960:

If you are willing to get a PogoPlug v2 and a USB drive (memory stick, 4G is plenty) I can provide you with links that I followed to install ARCLinux. I will provide you with instructions on installing the additional software packages. There are not many, things like ntp, and some perl modules. And I can email you my caiwc program and some documentation on setting it up and the parameters that go in the configuration. I don't have a FTP location I could put it so you could get it. My goal is to have an install script that will put the program and configuration program in place and set it up to run at boot time

 

A little more information on some of the features in the program, which I may have already mentioned some of them.

 

There is a parameter to control how often it polls the CAIWCs (yes multiple of them, currently limited to 10). Each can have a different poll interval. 5 to 120 seconds

 

There is a parameter to control how often the ISY is updated even if input and output values have not changed. 1 to 60 minutes

 

There is a threshold parameter for the temperature before it will automatically update the ISY so the ISY is not updated during each poll unnecessarily. 1 to 10 tenths

 

There is a parameter to control how many days to keep the log files. There is one for each day of the month. 2 to 28 days

 

There is a parameter for each analog and digital input to specify what ISY variable name to update.

 

There is a parameter for each temperature input to specify what ISY variable name to update.

 

There is a parameter for each digital out[put to specify what ISY variable name to update.

 

There is a parameter for each CAIWC variable to specify what ISY variable name to update.

 

There is a parameter for each CAIWC for the user and password.

 

There is a parameter for the user and password for the ISY.

 

The configuration file is checked once a minute and if it has been modified, things are initialized and the file is processed. So if changes are needed they will take affect within a minute and you do not have to stop and start the program. The log file is updated every 15 minutes showing communication status to the CAIWCs and ISY. Each hour stats are logged as to how many times each device (CAIWC and ISY) were communicated with good and bad.

 

If you have not yet looked at the PogoPlug, you may be surprised to find out many of them are Pink. I got a black one, but they call it gray.

[TJF1960]

There are parameters to contorl the polling interval down to 5 seconds and what threshold value change before the ISY is updated, and forcing an ISY update at a certain interval as well. This is so if the ISY is rebooted and the value does not change for a while the ISY will get updated within a certain time frame.

Hello Jack,

Out of curiosity will your program accept a network resource command from the ISY to send an update?

 

TJF1960:

If you are willing to get a PogoPlug v2 and a USB drive (memory stick, 4G is plenty) I can provide you with links that I followed to install ARCLinux.

That is very kind and generous of you, Thank You. Is this the model you are speaking of with the 1-gig wired network? http://www.ebay.com/itm/150738301243?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

 

Thanks,

Tim

[jca001]

Hello Jack,

Out of curiosity will your program accept a network resource command from the ISY to send an update?

At this point I had not thought of it being used that way.

 

If something has to happen on the ISY to cause it to send a network work command to the CAIWC, which in turn causes the CAIWC to send specific information to the ISY changing a variable, what will this accomplish, that polling the CAIWC say every 10 seconds would not accomplish?

 

With one of CAIWC's digital input connected to say a contact closure that indicates a door has been opened, the polling would not know if the door had been opened and closed between polls. So this is one of the cons or doing polling to get a status. But also remember you can do some programming on CAIWC and set a variable that indicates a state change and then clear it after some amount of time. Still not a real good solution.

 

Maybe I am not thinking of it the same way you are.

 

I was looking at this more for the idea of determining the temperature in a room had gotten above a certain point and turning on the ceiling fan. Then let the ISY turn it off after a certain amount of time, or when the temperature when down to some threshold base on polling the CAIWC.

 

The CAIWC was less expensive than the OWSERVER and had some other status indicators such as the analog and digital inputs and it is programmable, which allows a lot more flexibility. It does add more complexity accomplishing certain things. I still plan on doing pretty much the same type of thing with the OWSERVER because you can have multiple humidity sensors and temperature sensors combined, up to 24 if I remember correctly. I have both, not in service, but the CAIWC offered more inputs and was a little simpler to implement because you assign temperature sensor unique ID to a specific slot so to speak on the CAIWC. On the OWSERVER I will have to parse the information and the different types of sensors and match it to the unique ID number based on information in the programs configurations file.

 

 

That is very kind and generous of you, Thank You. Is this the model you are speaking of with the 1-gig wired network? http://www.ebay.com/itm/150738301243?ss ... 1438.l2649

Yes that looks pretty much like the one I bought and the same price, except I got mine from buy.com.

[Teken]

Hello Jack,

Out of curiosity will your program accept a network resource command from the ISY to send an update?

At this point I had not thought of it being used that way.

 

If something has to happen on the ISY to cause it to send a network work command to the CAIWC, which in turn causes the CAIWC to send specific information to the ISY changing a variable, what will this accomplish, that polling the CAIWC say every 10 seconds would not accomplish?

 

With one of CAIWC's digital input connected to say a contact closure that indicates a door has been opened, the polling would not know if the door had been opened and closed between polls. So this is one of the cons or doing polling to get a status. But also remember you can do some programming on CAIWC and set a variable that indicates a state change and then clear it after some amount of time. Still not a real good solution.

 

Maybe I am not thinking of it the same way you are.

 

I was looking at this more for the idea of determining the temperature in a room had gotten above a certain point and turning on the ceiling fan. Then let the ISY turn it off after a certain amount of time, or when the temperature when down to some threshold base on polling the CAIWC.

 

The CAIWC was less expensive than the OWSERVER and had some other status indicators such as the analog and digital inputs and it is programmable, which allows a lot more flexibility. It does add more complexity accomplishing certain things. I still plan on doing pretty much the same type of thing with the OWSERVER because you can have multiple humidity sensors and temperature sensors combined, up to 24 if I remember correctly. I have both, not in service, but the CAIWC offered more inputs and was a little simpler to implement because you assign temperature sensor unique ID to a specific slot so to speak on the CAIWC. On the OWSERVER I will have to parse the information and the different types of sensors and match it to the unique ID number based on information in the programs configurations file.

 

 

That is very kind and generous of you, Thank You. Is this the model you are speaking of with the 1-gig wired network? http://www.ebay.com/itm/150738301243?ss ... 1438.l2649

Yes that looks pretty much like the one I bought and the same price, except I got mine from buy.com.

 

 

I am also interested in more information and the sample software you have. Is there any other details you could share with us? I just purchased one of the Pogo Units just to try it out even though I have remote access to my network systems. But, this looks to be a great back up system for other related matters.

 

Regards

 

Teken . . .

[TJF1960]

Hello Jack,

Out of curiosity will your program accept a network resource command from the ISY to send an update?

At this point I had not thought of it being used that way.

 

If something has to happen on the ISY to cause it to send a network work command to the CAIWC, which in turn causes the CAIWC to send specific information to the ISY changing a variable, what will this accomplish, that polling the CAIWC say every 10 seconds would not accomplish?

Yes, I guess you are right. Mainly I was thinking of the times that when the ISY is busy, whether it is running a device query or linking a device or even opening an admin. console or clicking on the program tab for the first time after the admin console is opened, the ISY will lock out incoming network data. So any changes or updates during that time might be missed. Currently I have the ISY poll WCLink after a query to get the updates right afterwards. So if I understand correctly, depending on the polling time, if a temp change occurred and the ISY missed it, it would be updated on the next timed poll?

 

There is a parameter to control how often the ISY is updated even if input and output values have not changed. 1 to 60 minutes

Another question I have is that if only 1 change occurs – say a temp change, your program will push just that changed value to the ISY? But during the timed parameter to the ISY (quote from above) that all current data is pushed to the ISY?

 

Thanks,

Tim

[jca001]

I am also interested in more information and the sample software you have. Is there any other details you could share with us? I just purchased one of the Pogo Units just to try it out even though I have remote access to my network systems. But, this looks to be a great back up system for other related matters.

 

A couple of post above I provided information about configuration and some more information. I know it probably does really cover all details, so feel free to ask questions.

 

I have my program running on my Big Linux System (Really just a dual-core PC) that run Scientific Linux and started trying to get it to run on the PogoPlug today. I have had to install some Perl Modules that are not installed by default when you install ARCLinux. I still have one that something in my program calls indirectly that I can not figure out what package it is located in to be able to install it. When I get that figured out I will be better able to provide more information on how to get everything setup on the PogoPlug.

[Teken]

I am also interested in more information and the sample software you have. Is there any other details you could share with us? I just purchased one of the Pogo Units just to try it out even though I have remote access to my network systems. But, this looks to be a great back up system for other related matters.

 

A couple of post above I provided information about configuration and some more information. I know it probably does really cover all details, so feel free to ask questions.

 

I have my program running on my Big Linux System (Really just a dual-core PC) that run Scientific Linux and started trying to get it to run on the PogoPlug today. I have had to install some Perl Modules that are not installed by default when you install ARCLinux. I still have one that something in my program calls indirectly that I can not figure out what package it is located in to be able to install it. When I get that figured out I will be better able to provide more information on how to get everything setup on the PogoPlug.

 

Jack Allen,

 

Much thanks for the follow up and feed-back. Once I receive the Pogo unit I will start on the path to get the ARCLinux installed. With respect to the CAI device. What was the best place to purchase it along with various temperature / humidity sensors?

 

Right now I am in 20 different directions with respect to how best to manage my data information and how to best integrate it all into one single system.

[jca001]

Hello Jack,

Out of curiosity will your program accept a network resource command from the ISY to send an update?

At this point I had not thought of it being used that way.

 

If something has to happen on the ISY to cause it to send a network work command to the CAIWC, which in turn causes the CAIWC to send specific information to the ISY changing a variable, what will this accomplish, that polling the CAIWC say every 10 seconds would not accomplish?

Yes, I guess you are right. Mainly I was thinking of the times that when the ISY is busy, whether it is running a device query or linking a device or even opening an admin. console or clicking on the program tab for the first time after the admin console is opened, the ISY will lock out incoming network data. So any changes or updates during that time might be missed. Currently I have the ISY poll WCLink after a query to get the updates right afterwards. So if I understand correctly, depending on the polling time, if a temp change occurred and the ISY missed it, it would be updated on the next timed poll?

 

There is a parameter to control how often the ISY is updated even if input and output values have not changed. 1 to 60 minutes

Another question I have is that if only 1 change occurs – say a temp change, your program will push just that changed value to the ISY? But during the timed parameter to the ISY (quote from above) that all current data is pushed to the ISY?

 

I am going to answer both questions at once by explaining how things work in a little more detail. This may help answer Teken's question a little more as well.

 

Once the configuration file is process, the caiwc program goes into an endless loop. It gets the current time and for Linux there is a value that is the number of seconds since Dec 31 1970. It compares the value to the last remembered value and if they are the same it sleeps for a second and then starts the loop again, getting the time again. This time it will be different. Then it checks to see if the minute has changed and does some minute processing (checking if the configuration file has changed, if it is the 15 minute mark). Then it checks if the hour has changed and does hour processing (log stats). Then it checks if the day has changed and does day processing (close the current log file, delete older log files and open the new current log file). Then is check if the current minute module (divide by the minute and look at the reminder) is 0 based on what ISY99_POLL_INTERVAL vale is. If true it gets the ISY99 variable information again. Then it finally starts doing things with the CAIWC. It checks to see which of the 10 CAIWCs are enabled and if enabled it checks when it last polled it and if it has been more than the CAIWC_POLL_INTERVAL for that CAIWC, then it gets all the information from that CAIWC. Then it compares each value to the last remembered value and if one is different it sends the change to the ISY for that value if if defined to do so in the configuration file. If they are the same it compares the last time it update the ISY with this value and based on the value of ISY99_UPDATE_INTERVAL it will send the value to the ISY if it has been longer than the interval.

 

So lets say it polls a CAIWC and the Temperature changed more than the CAIWC_TEMPATURE_THRESHOLD, it would update the ISY with the new value and remember the now current value and the update time. Then the next time it polls the same CAIWC, the value probably did not change. Then after a few polls and the ISY99_UPDATE_INTERVAL has been exceeded for this temperature, it will update the ISY anyway with what is the same value the ISY already has. But if the ISY had been down for what ever reason or was not accepting network connection when the value changed in one of the previous CAIWC polls ISY update sequences, it will not get the new value. But the next time the ISY_UPDATE_INTERVAL is exceeded and the ISY will allow updates, it will get the new value, which could have changed again.

 

So each input/output and temperature sensor could all get updated the first time the caiwc program starts or the configuration file is changed, but then they will get updated at different timed depending on when their values change. A poll of the CAIWC could result in 41 different updates to the ISY and then after that 1 every few seconds, depending on the value of CAIWC_POLL_INTERVAL. Those that never change will probably all be sent to the ISY during the same loop when the ISY99_UPADTE_INTERVAL is exceeded.

 

Hopefully this explains things a little more, but feel free to ask more questions. You may ask a question that makes me rethink something and/or make me think of something else that should be done.

[jca001]

Much thanks for the follow up and feed-back. Once I receive the Pogo unit I will start on the path to get the ARCLinux installed. With respect to the CAI device. What was the best place to purchase it along with various temperature / humidity sensors?

 

Right now I am in 20 different directions with respect to how best to manage my data information and how to best integrate it all into one single system.

 

I bought my CAIWC without the little black case it goes in for $35.00. At the time I did not realize it because it was cheaper than the $49.00 I has seen elsewhere. But those included the black case. The black case can be had for $15.00, so there is only a $1.00 difference. Just Google and search eBay for deals.

 

I bought my temperature sensors from the same place I bought my OWSERVER just because they had them. I paid $4.00 a piece for them. Again Google and eBay can probably result better prices. Also hopefully there are others reading this and can post where they bought theirs. I will have to dig through some emails and such to see exactly where I ordered mine form.

[Teken]

Much thanks for the follow up and feed-back. Once I receive the Pogo unit I will start on the path to get the ARCLinux installed. With respect to the CAI device. What was the best place to purchase it along with various temperature / humidity sensors?

 

Right now I am in 20 different directions with respect to how best to manage my data information and how to best integrate it all into one single system.

 

I bought my CAIWC without the little black case it goes in for $35.00. At the time I did not realize it because it was cheaper than the $49.00 I has seen elsewhere. But those included the black case. The black case can be had for $15.00, so there is only a $1.00 difference. Just Google and search eBay for deals.

 

I bought my temperature sensors from the same place I bought my OWSERVER just because they had them. I paid $4.00 a piece for them. Again Google and eBay can probably result better prices. Also hopefully there are others reading this and can post where they bought theirs. I will have to dig through some emails and such to see exactly where I ordered mine form.

 

That would be great when you have time. As I want a proven & reliable source for my purchase.

[TJF1960]

Teken,

 

For what its worth, I picked mine up on eBay. Search "webcontrol" which brought these results up today: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=webcontrol&_sacat=See-All-Categories

 

At the time I bought all three of mine I got them for $29.00 each (+$5.00 shipping) by bidding, and no one esle bid against me. I did purchase 1 chassis the other two units I integrated into a different housing.

 

The temp sensors I picked up from Mouser Electronics for $4.77ea (part number 700-DS18B20+) http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=700-DS18B20%2b

I had tried a couple of different versions of this part none of which worked. This one is supposed to be a bit more accurate and it works perfectly.

 

Tim

[Teken]

Teken,

 

For what its worth, I picked mine up on eBay. Search "webcontrol" which brought these results up today: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=webcontrol&_sacat=See-All-Categories

 

At the time I bought all three of mine I got them for $29.00 each (+$5.00 shipping) by bidding, and no one esle bid against me. I did purchase 1 chassis the other two units I integrated into a different housing.

 

The temp sensors I picked up from Mouser Electronics for $4.77ea (part number 700-DS18B20+) http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=700-DS18B20%2b

I had tried a couple of different versions of this part none of which worked. This one is supposed to be a bit more accurate and it works perfectly.

 

Tim

 

Tim,

 

I thank you so much . . .

 

Teken . . .

[TJF1960]

Jack,

 

Thanks for the details.

Just purchased the pogoplug, will have it by mid-week. Look forward to checking it out. Will pm you when it arrives if that is ok.

 

Thanks,

Tim

[jca001]

Just an update:

 

I have my caiwc program running on the PogoPlug now. I even have it setup that when the PogoPlug is rebooted the caiwc program is started automatically.

 

I will be putting some documentation together over the next week when I have time. It will show what needs to be done after completing the ARCLinux install to be able to run the caiwc program.

 

I also plan to put together an install script so all that will be needed is to FTP a file to the PogoPlug and run 2 commands. One being tar to extract all the files and then one of the files to install everything. This is so updates can be done easily.

[Teken]

Just an update:

 

I have my caiwc program running on the PogoPlug now. I even have it setup that when the PogoPlug is rebooted the caiwc program is started automatically.

 

I will be putting some documentation together over the next week when I have time. It will show what needs to be done after completing the ARCLinux install to be able to run the caiwc program.

 

I also plan to put together an install script so all that will be needed is to FTP a file to the PogoPlug and run 2 commands. One being tar to extract all the files and then one of the files to install everything. This is so updates can be done easily.

 

Jack Allen,

 

Much thanks for all of the hard work and follow up. I look forward to receiving my new toys and setting this up ASAP.

 

Regards

 

Teken . . .