KPL 1.65 Request Failed

[yardman 49]

Hello Drew:

 

Another question: if you were to do a factory reset on some of your devices and the KPL controlling them (thereby erasing all existing links), and then you "manually" linked them back together via the devices themselves (not using the ISY), can you get reliable communication? Or do you still have some of the devices intermittently responding?

 

You may have already tried this. If so, my apologies.

 

 

Best wishes,

[andrew77]

So should i try to pull the tabs out on the KPLs and SWL (I believe for ten seconds and then push them in for 3 seconds, please correct if I'm wrong so I don't screw it up)

 

And then make maunal links using the tap method.

 

I can give that a shot tonight.

 

Is this to confirm that the PLM is good?

(I take it if I get errors with the links after i do this it may be the problem)

 

Drew

[yardman 49]

So should i try to pull the tabs out on the KPLs and SWL (I believe for ten seconds and then push them in for 3 seconds, please correct if I'm wrong so I don't screw it up)

 

And then make maunal links using the tap method.

 

I can give that a shot tonight.

 

Is this to confirm that the PLM is good?

(I take it if I get errors with the links after i do this it may be the problem)

 

Drew

 

Hello Drew:

 

First, I would remove all links to these devices in the ISY (Remove Device). This will remove the PLM links as well. That way the ISY/PLM won't get confused when you factory reset the Insteon devices.

 

Then you can do the factory reset on the Insteon devices. You have correctly described the reset procedure.

 

And then yes, you would manually create the links using the Insteon "tap" method on the devices themselves (don't use the ISY at all for this).

 

In order to not make too much work for yourself, you could try this with just some of your Insteon devices, in the case that you already have many linked to the ISY. Just pick the scene that is failing the most, and do the Remove Devices/factory reset/manual set method test on this scene only.

 

Then, if you find that not all devices in that group (scene) are responding correctly to button pushes from other scene members, you can conclude that the real problem is with your Insteon network itself, not the ISY/PLM. This would then mean that you need to do more work to fix whatever is breaking the network. So "step one" is getting the network robust enough so that the Insteon devices communicate without errors between themselves.

 

Once that basic level of networking is conquered, you go on to "step two": making certain that the devices reliably communicate with the ISY/PLM. If at this step you get errors (but not in "step one"), then the network may still be too "fragile" for the PLM. The PLM tends to be much more finicky than the Insteon devices themselves.

 

 

*****************************************************

 

 

You will occassionally get a "query" error through the ISY, especially when doing a "network query", where every device is queried.. But if your network is healthy, a re-query of the failing device will pass the second time. If the device continually fails, but then after a time starts passing again, there is probably some transient interference or signal degradation on your network.

 

I find that under normal operation, button presses always seem to get correctly recorded by the ISY. I have several "cleanup" programs and "status" programs that I use for various purposes; these monitor device status or device control commands. They always work properly.

 

Let us know how this experiment works.

 

 

Best wishes,

[andrew77]

That brings up a good point.

When i query the network I get comm errors, then when I query the individual device, it goes fine.

I never understood what was going on, if one is a false fail or what.

 

What do you know about this?

When the KPL LED flashes, could that be because it's a bad comm to the PLM, or noise as they say, or is it old links that the KPL is looking for (I've read that on the SH forum)

 

Drew

[MikeB]

When the KPL LED flashes, could that be because it's a bad comm to the PLM, or noise as they say, or is it old links that the KPL is looking for (I've read that on the SH forum)

 

Any/all of the above! A flashing KPL LED indicates it did not receive a response from one of the devices it sent a command to. If you have an ISY, then all of your devices are linked to the PLM. So, it's a comm issue to any linked device, including the PLM.

 

Could be a broken link to a device that's no longer on your network. Could be a device that is simply not getting a strong signal to/from the KPL. Could be something interfering with the clean up responses. Could be noise on the powerline. Could be a signal sucker. Could be a bad device.

[andrew77]

The last two times I've looged on I've seen this

 

No such session logon again

 

Not sure if it's just the laptop or what.

Has anyone seen that before and what could that mean?

 

Drew

[Michel Kohanim]

Drew,

 

This means that your laptop either went to standby or lost connection to the network.

 

Is it only that one KPL that is having problems?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

The last two times I've looged on I've seen this

 

No such session logon again

 

Not sure if it's just the laptop or what.

Has anyone seen that before and what could that mean?

 

Drew

[andrew77]

Drew,

 

This means that your laptop either went to standby or lost connection to the network.

 

Is it only that one KPL that is having problems?

 

 

That makes sense. The laptop is on a wireless network.

 

I only really had scenes with the one KPL. But the other KPL wouldn't trigger most of the time.

 

I've removed all my devices one at a time from the ISY (no big deal I only have 7 devices) like Yardman suggested and everthing's been solid thus far (24 hours).

I realize I've been here before where everything works for a bit and then issues arise.

I'm going to run it like this for the weekend and if it's still solid, I'll throw in a PLM on my next order.

I think that may be the issue. Michel assumed so as well early on but wanted to try everything else before I bought more stuff.

 

That reminds me of a posting that I read about PLMs being finnicky.

Is there a version that I should stay away from?

Or is getting a new PLM the thing I should be thinking of if this weekend goes without a hitch?

 

Let me tell you manual linking is really overrated. The ISY makes life way easier.

 

Drew

 

PS I don't "loog" on to the network, I log on, contrary to my previous post. hahaha

[yardman 49]

Hello Drew:

 

As far as the KPL light blinking, MikeB had a lot of good suggestions for the possible causes. One that he mentioned was broken links. That is why whenever I install a new Insteon Device, I always do a factory reset first, even if I have never used the device yet. I'll also do a reset when I'm having problems that can't be cured any other way. The reset removes all Insteon and X10 links from the device.

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that a KPL will blink if you are using it in a program that is calling for an action that is conflicting with the current action that it or another device is performing. So let's say that you have a program that changes the LED status in response to the status of other devices. If the logic in that program is conflicting, or if there is not enough of a delay between the trigger and the action (to allow for the command cleanups), then the KPL can get confused. So be certain that this is not a cause of some of your problems. (Of course, if you haven't written any such programs, than this will not be an issue.)

 

Best wishes,

[andrew77]

I don't have any programs running right now as I have taken out the PLM and ISY.

My old programs were really very simple scenes.

Turning on a scene with a KPL (nonload) button, that's about it.

I haven't gotten into the bigger stuff yet because of the comm errors.

 

Drew

[andrew77]

Could be a broken link to a device that's no longer on your network. Could be a device that is simply not getting a strong signal to/from the KPL. Could be something interfering with the clean up responses. Could be noise on the powerline. Could be a signal sucker. Could be a bad device.

 

I've factory reset every device and manually linked them.

Since I've done that I've had no problems.

 

 

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that a KPL will blink if you are using it in a program that is calling for an action that is conflicting with the current action that it or another device is performing. So let's say that you have a program that changes the LED status in response to the status of other devices. If the logic in that program is conflicting, or if there is not enough of a delay between the trigger and the action (to allow for the command cleanups), then the KPL can get confused. So be certain that this is not a cause of some of your problems. (Of course, if you haven't written any such programs, than this will not be an issue.)

 

I only had a few scenes, nothing else.

 

I had a forum at the SH site but it lost a little focus on my issue and they started talking amongst each other about some diagnostic tool so I'm hoping this one will answer the questions I've asked.

 

Does anyone know if SH will sell a person another PLM and if that one doesn't work will they just take it back in a resonable amount of time?

 

Drew

 

[MikeB]

SmartHome has a 30 day return policy.

[Guest]

Could be a broken link to a device that's no longer on your network. Could be a device that is simply not getting a strong signal to/from the KPL. Could be something interfering with the clean up responses. Could be noise on the powerline. Could be a signal sucker. Could be a bad device.

 

I've factory reset every device and manually linked them.

Since I've done that I've had no problems.

 

 

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that a KPL will blink if you are using it in a program that is calling for an action that is conflicting with the current action that it or another device is performing. So let's say that you have a program that changes the LED status in response to the status of other devices. If the logic in that program is conflicting, or if there is not enough of a delay between the trigger and the action (to allow for the command cleanups), then the KPL can get confused. So be certain that this is not a cause of some of your problems. (Of course, if you haven't written any such programs, than this will not be an issue.)

 

I only had a few scenes, nothing else.

 

I had a forum at the SH site but it lost a little focus on my issue and they started talking amongst each other about some diagnostic tool so I'm hoping this one will answer the questions I've asked.

 

Does anyone know if SH will sell a person another PLM and if that one doesn't work will they just take it back in a resonable amount of time?

 

Drew

 

 

IF..... (I said if) the PLM is defective why not RMA it? You can have them send you one and send the old one back, or, if the new one doesnt hlp just send it back and get your omeny back either way.

 

No reason to pay for a new PLM either way.

[andrew77]

IF..... (I said if) the PLM is defective why not RMA it? You can have them send you one and send the old one back, or, if the new one doesnt hlp just send it back and get your omeny back either way

 

Hi Digger;

 

it seems you aren't convinced the PLM is the issue.

Any other Ideas?

 

Drew

[Guest]

IF..... (I said if) the PLM is defective why not RMA it? You can have them send you one and send the old one back, or, if the new one doesnt hlp just send it back and get your omeny back either way

 

Hi Digger;

 

it seems you aren't convinced the PLM is the issue.

Any other Ideas?

 

Drew

 

It could be a bad switch etc. causing problems. There is no easy way to tell without a diagnostic tool. Honestly the PLM's leave a lot to be desired but I often get attacked for saying that. There are a lot of people who swear that Insteon is perfect and it must be something the person did and not the hardware. I proved in my house it was the hardware after months of hunting it down. No need for filterlincs and extra accesspoints. In my opinion that is SH trying to make more money with their "buy more" and it should get better sales strategy instead of fixing the underlying problems.

 

I think you should RMA your PLM. Explain to SH that your device to device communication is fine and device to PLM is not. Explain all of the time you spent troubleshooting and getting expert help from UDI etc. Hopefully they will listen to you. If they dont want to hear it they will tell you tough luck and to buy a new one.

 

I just hate to see people waste money on something they dont need.

 

Good Luck!!!