Teken

I wanted to update this thread that Xathros has once again come to the rescue: http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/16095-autelis-bridge-pushing-data-to-smart-energy-groups-seg-guide/ It should be noted this is not a back fill solution as it is a method to insure data continues to flow to SEG which avoids a gap in the charting data. If done properly there will not be a need to back fill the SEG data via the ISY Series Controller.

Well, normally the speaker / siren is installed in the HVAC air return baffle. Doing so allows sound penetration to spread through out the home with out issue. As is with most *drill & run* installs you normally see the speaker / siren mounted right next to the alarm panel in a closet or in the basement. Which really does you no favors in terms of thief disabling the noise maker. A supplemental siren / speaker is not something you see very often in basic installs or even considered by 99% of the population. These units are normally mounted high up in the attic space of the attached garage rafters. This is done to insure everyone outside can hear the alarm condition from many blocks, to miles depending on wind direction etc. If you have access to the wiring to the siren I would suggest you first look at the panel and verify all connections are tight and sound. See how the system is grounded if at all as most systems use a floating ground internally shunted by the use of the telephone POTS. If its not tied to the POTS because there is no land line most installers will simply not ground the unit at all. The PSU that powers the alarm panel is 9X of 10 used as the method for grounding. What is the alarm panel model, brand, device number?

Appreciate the follow up and details about this new One Link eco system being deployed by FA. Unfortunately, this begs to question will people moving forward who need to replace their existing smoke, CO, units be left in the dusk when a replacement is required? I am sure happy I bought ten back up units for that just in case . . . Normally people know I have no problem throwing Smarthome / Smartlabs under the bus when warranted. But, if they are not aware of this change in state this is a failure on FA side. Then again Smarthome / Smartlabs isn't really known to communicate very well to anyone. Let alone to their own employees . . . I sure hope this isn't the demise of the Smoke Bridge because I will need to buy another unit for a back up if this one ever goes poof!

Hello Bill, Just some quick feed back as to some items you can check to insure they are not the root cause. 1. Very tight timed or looping programs. 2. Network Traffic: If you have 3rd party devices which send data to the ISY via state variables. Ensure the send interval is not set too low such as every 5 seconds etc. 3. SMTP Traffic: Confirm you don't have lots of e-mails being sent out by the system. I know its fanciful for people to receive all kinds of alerts based on MS movement, window, doors, being open. But if you have a active family, pets, etc having the ISY send 10-20 emails under a minute uses up lots of resources. 4. KPL Blink: Lots of people use this method to make a KPL blink. I know lots of people are a fan of this because it gives a good feed back etc. But, this can cause lots of Insteon traffic and ties up the ISY when more than one KPL is doing the LED flash dance. 5. Anti Virus / Firewall: You should always check the anti virus / firewall to insure rules or policies have not changed. Often times a update of the two will cause the conflict where the system takes longer to connect etc. 6. Run at start up: It should be noted that if you have lots of programs that run at startup. You should consider scaling a few down to only have mission critical programs run at start up. 7. Query: I know lots of people who use query as a method to verify the state of a device. Mostly as a band aid to poor communications etc. Please verify if you have lots of query programs or query all of the system. I have seen a few people who actually query the entire network on multiple timed intervals. Doing so ties up the ISY Series Controller from doing anything else and this comes across as the unit is locked up. But in fact its super busy processing etc. Most of the tasks and processes are based on FIFO (First In, First Out)

I have nothing of value to add to this conversation but laughed out loud when I saw this. Simply awesome . . . Carry on now don't mind me.

That's really great to hear and let us know what happens with the new ones you have on hand. Make sure you ask them (IF) there is a difference between the *Wireless* vs the *One Link* units. If not great if so what are they?

My first thought is induced noise from 120 VAC lines. If power wires are crossed with low voltage signal cables this can cause noise this is why they must be either spaced apart properly or run perpendicular to other 120 VAC wiring. Using shield cable is also another method used to avoid noise etc. If none of the above is true the most common problem is poor grounding. The siren in an alarm panel is normally powered by the system unless the bell limit is exceeded. In those cases a relay or a dedicated PSU drives the siren / speaker. Do you actually have a siren opposed to a speaker? Where exactly is this siren / speaker located in your home that you can hear the Insteon traffic?

Understood, but the advert on the back of the One Link almost exactly mimic's the same information as the OP's. Way back in the day when Smartlabs first announced there would be some kind of collaboration with First Alert I ran out and purchased 16 units. As the years went by there wasn't any signs of this mythical Insteon device to be seen or had. About 2-3 years later the Smoke Bridge was finally released by Smartlabs. At that point I was already fully integrated with my Security Alarm Panel via Kidd 120 VAC smoke detectors. Shortly after this massive install there was a two week lightning storm event which took out more than 200 homes in my area. If it wasn't for my monthly fire checks I would have never found out the two detectors were blown or damaged. At the time in our area back up battery smokes were not required for what ever reason. Several things came to light during that mishap and moving forward I have deployed systems that take into account as many situations / scenarios as possible. - All hardwired 120 VAC smoke detectors are protected by SSR relays via optical coupling. Which avoids any possible voltage spike to damage the units. This circuit is now also surge protected up stream by a dedicated surge protector which monitors high / low voltage conditions and removes power if such a condition exists. - As a extra measure of fail over using the power of the First Alert One Link. I have deployed multiple battery operated Smoke / CO talking alarms in each room, floor, zone, area. Using high capacity lithium cells not only provides long term use but absolutely avoids any possible chance of a lightning strike damaging these units. - Couple this with EOL monitoring via the alarm panel if any of the 120 VAC units are ever damaged or not fully in spec a fault will be declared by the system. - Finally, adding the Smoke Bridge I can integrate Insteon lighting as required. With the integration of the ISY Series Controller fail over messaging can be had which backs up the security alarm system.

Well, they can't charge you anything if they indeed sent you the wrong device and it doesn't actually use the One Link protocol etc. Please do try to connect to the smoke bridge outlined by the full users manual and report back success / failure.

LOL . . . You always make my day.

Its funny because they use the same terminology for the One Link? Its too bad the OP can't open the unit and try to connect it to the Smoke Bridge. But, I can absolutely understand because I wouldn't want to be on the hook for $45 - hundreds of dollars for units that won't integrate with the Smoke Bridge. I really can't understand why the actual First Alert store sent him something that has no markings? Because this is a trade mark brand for them and only those so listed operate via the One Link as I have read etc. Maybe they are dropping the One Link Logo? I dunno, this has to be one of the most frustrating things to go through! Just throw a guy a bone already . . .

Oh thank you . . . Thank You . . . Thank You!

You're pulling my leg WTF??? The HA Gods must really hate you because that is simply incredible that four vendors are sending you the wrong product. Also given the fact the link you provided clearly shows the One Link logo etc. I've been in several stores since we last spoke and have seen every one labeled appropriately. That was at Walmart, Home Depot, and in Canada Rona Revy. I am at a complete loss why this is happening have you tried to link the new sensors?

In the past many of us have asked that the next firmware drop increase the number of characters that can be used. Say from 8-10 to 12-16 characters. The system should also have user set attempt value from 3 to what ever they desire. Once this threshold has been exceeded there should be a user definable time out. Most systems allow it to be timed out for 3-15 minutes . . . Even better if the system could send a two form authentication via its e-mail feature. I've always mused about being able to create a custom e-mail which the system upon user login would ask the person to take the inbound e-mail and enter what ever pass phrase was used in conjunction with the user name / password. That would be extremely hard for the casual hacker to determine and breach.

Its interesting it uses sound discrimination to detect the smoke / CO alerts. It makes the product very much universal in application and deployment. I am very curious to see how well it discerns other ambient noise factors but have to assume it has been fine tuned to only listen to these specific frequencies. Then again there are countless alarm systems on the market that have dedicated glass / impact sensors which at the basic level are nothing more than a microphone. Which are easily fooled by key chain rattle, thumping of the window, clapping of a persons hand etc. Does this device have any sort of battery back up in case of line power loss?

Randy, Could you provide the rest of the program code for review?

To be clear this remote lync bridge connects to the Kidd smoke / CO alarms via RF. This device in turns connects to the network via WiFi. It then connects to a cloud hosted service for sms / email correct? What happens when there isn't any Internet connectivity in the home?

io_guy, For the benefit of others can you explain what are some of the use case and benefits of having a node server in place. I am trying to envision what kind of features and abilities that can be seen by this. As always the membership thanks you for sharing these link programs!

A few other issues I have noted using the DB -> ISY method is slow to long variable reaction. Meaning if a device comes on it can take 20-90 seconds for the variable to change state. You also have the case where variables continue to run long after that energy state has ended. I have tracked this strange behavior for a year now and have never found a solution or explanation as to why this happens. Initially I considered and tried changing the send interval to much shorter bursts. But, as many of us know if there are many network devices doing the same this can impact the ISY Series Controller in performing other aspects. For me I've determined a 25 second send interval is the best balance of network traffic, response, and operation. For those who have nothing else that is banging away at the ISY Series Controller a send interval of 10 seconds is OK. Lastly, given the small amount of users who actually have a GEM / ECM unit in place and couple that with actually using a ISY Series Controller the odds of more development for the Energy Module are not very likely in the next few years. You can do your part and spread the word in what ever forums you're a member of and this in the long run will drive adoption and increased sales. I know personally that my *Install Thread* has brought lots of attention, awareness, and sales for Autelis, Brultech, and UDI. Letting people know there is some little box(s) available that can help aggregate, track, and manage a persons electrical energy in the home is the next big push for the HA space. Sadly, the reality is HA took more than 25 years to see mass adoption and penetration in the market place. Energy Management and tracking is just now getting that same exposure. My belief is it will take another 5 years until the *general consumer* sees value, benefit, and use from such wares. On the plus side Brultech and UDI are well positioned to help those who wish to adopt such measures. My hopes is by the time these people see the light and want to use the Energy Module it will be more mature and feature rich. Let the games begin . . . Ha . . .

As you noted the ISY Series Controller does not currently support the ZigBee HA 1.2 protocol and only the energy management aspect. It was stated this was on UDI's road map at some point in time after various mile stones were completed such as Z-Wave, 5.XX, etc. I don't for see ZigBee HA 1.2 being supported for several years at its current pace of development. With respect to which brand to go with over all the Insteon products look and feel much better when compared to Z-Wave. The one device which I have to give the nod to is the Z-Wave Aeotec 6-1 multi sensor: http://www.smarthome.com/aeotec-zw100-a-z-wave-multisensor-6.html Insteon does not offer such a small, flexible sensor at the moment. Another aspect which I have to give the nod to is many of the newer Z-Wave products offer *Energy Monitoring* in their hardware profile. This is from outlets, switches, micro modules etc. In that respect it provides the end user more value and insight along with the same control Insteon does. I believe if you purchase the Z-Wave upgrade kit you will have the very best of both worlds. As you will have native support for X-10, Insteon, and Z-Wave . . . There are also more TSTAT's, Locks for Z-Wave than there are for the ZigBee protocol. Lastly, you will find pricing for Z-Wave products often times cheaper when compared to ZigBee. The ZigBee protocol has huge potential and flexibility unfortunately UDI and many others do not provide full support to take advantage of such. Perhaps once all of this Z-Wave / 5.XX settles down there will be development time set aside to increase ZigBee support.

As I understand it if you obtain the energy data via Ethernet / WiFi only 7 channels will be made available and there will be 7 nodes in the device tree. It should also be noted that response time and accuracy using the Dash Box method to obtain energy, temperature, voltage, pulse, etc is delayed and not as accurate when compared to the native energy module via ZigBee. There are a few people who have deployed the method you have described above. To date I have never read of one person indicating they are happy or unhappy with that specific solution. Lastly, it should be clarified that the purpose and intent of the Dash Box (DB) in having the ability to push state variables to the ISY was to provide more access and data not currently supported by the current energy module platform. The only limitation to using this method is what I stated above which is slower response time and (sometimes) missed readings which either are peak, low, or instantaneous readings. These three attributes are extremely important if mission critical monitoring is expected and wanted as I do. As many who follow my *Install Thread* know the benefit of using the DB to relay the 32 channels, 8 temperature, 4 pulse, is having the flexibility of installing and using Z-Wave. Some would consider the above a great balance and trade off . . . While others who are more focused and concerned about mission critical energy monitoring use the ZigBee method.

I have to gather this is on the newer units because up to a certain manufactured year the fancy remote controller worked perfectly fine and it never cut the power to my unit. With the advent of the Internet *My Q* module it seems the reliance on the data bus is more stringent than years past. To be honest I don't know of many people who rely on the clock, temperature, at all. So if the OP can live with the LCD going blank and flashing 12:00 and it allows the I/O to operate. Than, I say have at it its free and it works! Ha . . .

I think some of the fault lies with the general public to be honest and not all of the blame can land on Smartlabs. In this day and age all of us want our cake and eat it too. This often times leads to a compromise in security or to the basic elements of the system. Any person can walk into a office building and find best practices with respect to security not being followed. Whether it be using strong passwords, not allowing recycling of similar ones, to expiring them on a known interval. Many places still do not use any kind of two form authentication or challenge phrase passwords. Many of the places I supported used all of the above and much more such as biometrics, random number generators used as a 3rd (in person) authentication etc. Some of the other military and bio medical facilities use face recognition, palm print, and retina detection for level 4 areas and beyond. At the end of the day if we all could accept the fact the device had to be physically pressed to send out its MAC address while encrypted enroute there would be very little to worry about. But the reality is *we the people* have asked to make the enrollment easier and faster so this is what we are left with. Again, I see what EVIL Pete as doing ,is for the benefit of the product, people, and the hardware. For ever and a day those using Mac computers have believed they were impervious to exploits, virus's, and trojans, etc. Fast forward the last five years there are more each day that exploit the Mac OS. The reality is the Mac had a market share of less than 2% globally and nobody who was hacking at the time wanted to waste resources in something that had zero impact to the global market place. Now, given the mass adoption rate and growth of the Apple product line in all manner of business, government, and public use. That 2% target has outpaced the PC industry by 300% YOY. To a hacker there is now a reason, and ROI for spending time to find and exploit known holes in the Unix / Linux kernal. For me if EVIL Pete finds something that truly exploits the Insteon hardware that is a good thing. As this will make future hardware that much better in the long run. The biggest concern people should have is the slow aszz response time Smartlabs will have. Let alone the wall of silence and the lack of time line to correct said issue(s).

True, but I saw it as informational data that he wanted to offer the general public. I don't pretend to know his underlying intent or purpose. But, its safe to say given his past history its a combination of tinkering and finding exploits to help people and companies be aware and ultimately improve their products and security attributes. I am more curious as to what hardware / software is being used to cause this exploit to be seen. As I have often seen people use things that the *Average Person* really had no capability to mimic or copy to do the same. Case in point ELA has made his ELAM which assists him in monitoring every aspect of the Insteon protocol and line traffic along with signal strength. Given the fact his skills are very high and is a EE this does not come as a surprise to me in the least. What does surprise me is Smartlabs in ability to offer the same? You're talking about people who are intimately aware and have all the technical know how of the Insteon protocol and more. Yet you have some random person like ELA & EVIL Pete who have summarily been able to obtain more and provide more data than any single Smartlabs engineer in the history of the product? What is wrong with this picture???

I have one of the first generation jack shaft 3800 series GDO's. It too came with a fancy wall mounted controller. Unlike others I never went down the road to soldering any remotes. I simply installed the I/O linc wires in parallel at the GDO unit itself. This has been working perfectly fine for six plus years. You might want to give that method a try and could save you some cash! [emoji4][emoji6] Ideals are peaceful - History is violent