Teken

Best practice that has worked for hundreds of installs has been to place any plugin dual band device on each level and at the corners of the home. I prefer to use the On-Off Module / Lamp Linc as they offer dual use whereas the Access Point (Range Extender) only offers coupling / bridging of the Insteon network. If you're going to spend money might as well have something you can use opposed to a wall wart that does nothing but couple the signal! I also like the On-Off Module because it allows me to turn RF/Power Line signalling when and (IF) required for testing and diagnostics.

Larry, Apologies if I am being unclear but there are three parts to the whole system. 1. Main board which contains all of the electronics, battery, I/O ports etc. 2. Either the plug & play clamp on shut off valve or inline shut off valve. 3. Remote sensor which houses the magnetic sensor array that is *affixed* to the users water meter. More than likely the sensor array will be secured with a strap of some kind. I wasn't by a computer early so here is the KS Project link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1115949672/water-hero-protection-from-major-pipe-bursts-and-c/description The main home page of the company I have been working with for over a year with: http://www.waterheroinc.com/

By clamp on for those like me who have a ball valve with 90' handle the Water Hero System has a frame assembly that clamps onto the handle and the shut off motor sits above it and turns this handle. Those who have a dial shut off will need to install the inline version of the shut off motor assembly. The clamp on assembly was designed for a quick and easy Plug & Play install and setup. Once the team completes the first round of Alpha / Beta tests we should be much further ahead in detecting the most minute water use(s).

Please append the program(s) for this email alert program for peer review.

Here are some bullet points for you and those who may be following this thread. Water Hero Whole House Water Shut Off Monitor: 1. Two choices of automated shut off: Inline & clamp on for plug and play 2. Clip on none contact magnetic sensor array to detect water flow 3. Monitors ambient temperature in the local area to guard against a freeze condition 4. Alert notification via email, SMS, and possible push notification. 5. Tracks water consumption with live view and historic recap. 6. Serial input & output for 3rd party systems like alarms. 7. Pulse output to send data to 3rd party devices like the Brultech Green Eye Monitor (GEM). 8. Cloud hosted and smart phone application to control on, off, cycle modes of the valve. 9. Open API which is being worked on to allow more integration with Home Automation. 10. Home, Away modes with user defined sensitivity for water flow detection. 11. Battery back up to ensure fail over during a loss of line voltage 12. Valve position detection to ensure ball valve is in its correct state. 13. WiFi enabled for quick connection and communications. Many more features that are still pending when full development is completed. Last but not least this is an American company that is designing and the bulk of the unit is made in the good old USA. Some parts are obviously used from global parts in the final manufacturer.

I would start with the program that is monitoring this and what conditions are required to be met.

Nobody has to guess my position about how Smartlabs / Insteon could do a lot better in this area. Having said this I will give them a benefit of the doubt because Joe Dadda and his engineers have come out with a few services / devices which I didn't think would. Now, that has no relations to the fact some of the support, services, and device(s) are half baked. One only needs to look at the following products since release have essentially been left to die. Most companies will try to improve upon an existing product because it reduces R&D and starting from scratch. But, not Smartlabs / Insteon . . . They would rather keep selling a half hobbled product - then abandon it mid stream with out any notice! Products left for dead are in no specific order were / are: Energy Display, iMeter Solo, SmartLinc, Alert Module, iGate Way, Touch Linc, HUB Pro, Synchro Linc, etc. More to your point though regarding plug in modules: Manufactures are generally too stupid to accept such a easy concept because all of them have that whole mental attitude very much like Apple that everything must be under their control. With respect to whether the entire industry ever unifies under one protocol it would be nice but that will never happen. People have too much skin in the game to abandon their current market share. What existing makers should do is offer a bridge standard that is pervasive or abundant. The first thing that comes to mind is WiFi, next as much as I hate it would be BLE. Meaning the first guy out the door like Insteon, Z-Wave, ZigBee, etc that offers native supported in the box hardware support for WiFi / BLE will start to capture more of the new and existing market share. As much as I hate having more RF devices in my home the most natural connectivity is WiFi to an appliance like the Washer / Dryer. The problem with this fantasy I have spinning in my head is you guessed it. Some aszz hat would require it to be connected to the cloud, and there would be no way to talk to the device with out said cloud. The fact all of these really smart people all around the world are pushing the cloud infrastructure pisses me off to no end. Just one day - and I mean one solid 24 hours - I hope to see the entire Internet just shut down . . . This would highlight to the stupid all around the world that rely so much on the *Happy Cloud* as to why its such a terrible concept. Its safe to say lots of people would lose their Sh^T if that ever happen. I would just sit back and laugh and enjoy the Gong Show . . . Everyday I watch tens of millions of people wondering why its taking so long to print a job, access a file, can't retrieve some random piece of junk mail, to wondering why systems are slow to react. Because all of these people are just stupid in thinking the cloud was the best thing since sliced bread! But oh no'sssssssssssssssssssssss . . . . We have a SLA with a written guarantee of 99.9999999999999999999 up time they say to me! I just sit back and laugh and say you're stupid . . . Enjoy your cloud . . . Ha!

I agree people need to consider the long term use and installation of the final solution in place. Human's by nature are lazy and most people won't bother checking if something is operating correctly until something forces them to. All of this would be a moot point if alert notification was more available from the various hardware vendors. I know in the past several companies going off the top of my head like Samsung, LG, etc were offering smart units which had some kind of HA integration. Given the massive costs for these appliances it just seems like a simple thing to add to a washer / dryer?!?! But then again at this stage of the game I've become more and more adverse to having lots of electronics in my gear. The whole KISS principle is my living mantra moving forward in almost everything I do now. Our reliance on IC's, Software, and Networking, is pushing the envelope of where we should be. I freely admit I love all of my toys - But at some point having Google know I'm washing my underwear is just too much!

Stu, Can you offer a little more insight about that as I have never read or heard about that offer? Is there a reference link a consumer can read about such a replacement policy? LOL . . .

Here is my reply from Cassie B at Amazon. ========================= The highest calling in life is to serve ones country faithfully - Teach others what can be. Do what is right and not what is popular.

In some places I continue to use the new open-close (Trigger Linc) with heart beat as the leak sensor. Doing so allows me to extend the grid sensor(s) where ever and mount the PCB up high for the best range while avoiding any possible water contamination.

My feed back to them via the smart application was to include the option to toggle between the two choices of either voice vs tone response. I also reiterated that the company should use the technology already present which is the smart application. To announce service outages, updates, and pending changes. Thus far the Amazon company has proven to be very responsive to the client base while offering probably the most value from service / products. For now I am going to abstain and give them a pass and see how they move forward in the next 18 months.

All 12 of mine still have the plastic cover on the units as I didn't see any harm vs benefit in leaving it in place. In a few places like the sump pit I didn't want any kind of random debris hitting the unit and staining it etc. Then again it probably made no difference considering two units I got came with a yellowish antenna?!?!?

LMAO Love It . . .

Yeah $80.00 is a little pricey but here is a more reasonable sail switches on the mighty EBAY: http://www.ebay.com/bhp/sail-switch

I am currently a Alpha / Beta Tester working with a great team called Water Hero. You can find more information about their fine product which is still in early trials on their website. Unlike other water shut off valves this unit measures water flow and temperature. Offers email / SMS messaging, water consumption tracking, remote and automated turn on / off, comes in two varieties of plug and play and inline install. ========================= The highest calling in life is to serve ones country faithfully - Teach others what can be. Do what is right and not what is popular.

Yes, its right up there with Nest! Nobody has to ask how that X-MAS OTA update turned out for tens of thousands of users in the dead of winter either . . . Ha . . .

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification . . .

Stu, Are you splitting hairs here or are you being extremely precise? Speaking as a lay person anything outside of a device invoked by Amazon Echo would reside in the program(s) tab. Within the program tab resides the IF, THEN, ELSE, clauses which are part of a crafted program the user has created. So again my question is are you splitting hairs or being extremely precise in you reply? As most of us could agree the conditions reside in the programs tab / program tree / program folders.

Larry, Come on now that is a little harsh LOL! My take is that his company is helping push the whole industry to where at some point it will be reasonable to purchase like any other appliance. Is there more room to improve upon the cost per KWH, yes. Is there more clarification as to the entire out of pocket costs that is required to get a person up and running, yes. What isn't false is his company will continue to lead the charge in making this specific industry from the rich and famous to at some point doable for all. No, a Tesla vehicle is not something a average person can just purchase like a Ford Escort. But it has to start from somewhere and I am happy to say it has started. Anyone who has been in the Solar PV industry long enough knows having huge banks of flooded cells weighing hundreds of pounds vented and sitting on the floor isn't something people like to show off. Tesla has also removed the one model which was supposed to be used as a back up system and has made them a daily use 10 KWH unit. All of this is to be expected as you noted the amount of usable power doesn't pencil out at the lower scale. Again, this is leaps and bound more attainable then the fuel cell technology being used by some of the largest companies in the world from Bloom Energy. I've been watching this company since day one and on the face of it it has legs. The simple reality is the company has no intention of ever making their wares where it can be used in a home at a price point where it makes sense. The CEO comes across as very sincere but the reality is his Bloom Box will never see the light of day in a real home. Its not that he couldn't make it cheap its the simple fact his company has turned their backs on the general public and decided to follow the mantra of *Profit before people*. This is very much like Apple and other companies who truly believe they offer so much value to the masses. Elon Musk is not your typical guy and that is being understated for sure. Not a single soul on this planet has ever created two multi billion dollars companies and succeeded, none. His company is also the first ever to land a single stage use rocket back to the planet after going to space and delivering its pay load. Does his company have lots to do in terms of offering a smart battery pack, yes. But its safe to say he isn't offering vaporware like so many other con men before him. Make no mistake hes there to make money just like every other company out there. But, I would give him my hard earned cash before I did the same to the Bloom Box!

I agree to a certain extent for sure with respect to the smart grid. Its people like Elon Musk at Tesla with his power wall and enterprise level power supplies that will push the market further ahead. Nobody has ever open up and given away their battery patents like he has, ever. His mindset of using all the homes around the world to build out a smart grid and allow load shedding / sharing is not new. But he is the only one who has put his ideas and thoughts into motion. Everyone I've been watching have published endless vaporware . . . Every year I read about a new battery chemistry that is supposed to offer fast charging, endless DOD, and long service life. More than 25 years have past and not one of these so called break through's have come to market. There is lots of hype in the nano / graphine camp. Again, lots of in the lab trials but none of them have come to market and really at that point its vaporware to the masses. Eaton has a smart load center I have been saving up for quite awhile which does away with lots of home automation protocols like X-10, Insteon, Z-Wave, ZigBee, WiFi, BLE. Nothing beats native at the load center control of your loads and power management. The only problem with them is extremely high costs, single source vendor, and potential of leaving in the dark if they go poof! The smart breakers aren't something you can purchase at Home Depot if you need one either. With respect to my comments about energy management / energy monitoring being ten years out. This is more about where the cost, features, public API, and integration with other 3rd party vendors is at. There are countless vendors and devices all over the spectrum which has been used for eons in the industry trades. Again, the costs and integration to the average home isn't there yet. A perfect example last year was a friend who has been following my Home Automation journey over the years. He asked me to help him plan, build, and configure his brand new multi million dollar home. I told him there were dozens of fine companies from different spectrum's that could do what he needed. With his financial resources he could have installed any of the random items I mentioned here. The real kicker: He didn't install any of the $2500 - 12000.00 systems from the likes of HOBO, Eaton, Schneider, etc Why? Closed system - No upgrade path - Zero development - Lacking features - No API - etc. Normally industry appliances are purpose built to do one task well. Surprisingly, in the energy monitoring / energy management its like any old school engineer. They have no imagination . . . The reverse is true no with the wave of *New School* where every one of them have their head in the sand and truly believe the only solution is the cloud! The world needs more guys like Elon Musk who is a new and old school engineer with a vision of tomorrow and open mind of how to do things. Sadly, I can't place all the blame on the engineers at Eaton, Schneider etc. The bulk of the blame goes to senior management and the sales teams. As they have no freaking clue about the world around them and how given a little will gain them a lot. As an aside many years ago one of the companies I worked for had a six million dollar project and one of the listed vendors in this thread had no intention of helping us create more and better charting / graphing. Never mind more alert tracking and notifications etc. When all of the dust settled - I pulled out our 6 million dollar project with the vendor. Its safe to say there were lots of pissed off people and lost jobs in their company. LOL . . . Bottom line work with your customers and keep a open mind!

It should be noted 99% of the time all linking and scene creations should be done with the 994 Series Controller. But there are use cases and times where a person may want to have something happen outside of the controllers knowledge. This can be due to needing different logic which the controller may not support or is very hard to craft to meet the same. This is also used where there is some kind of hardware / controller issue. Ex. When a new Insteon device is not fully supported by the controller or where firmware has disabled previous behaviors of operations.

No sooner when you replied I went and checked again. And the changes you indicated are there now! The application did however shut down and restart and have to gather this is why I never saw the updates you guys indicated last night. Its probably also why the system refused to turn on anything even after a hard reboot of the 994 Series Controller and the Echo. I really wish Amazon would publish a service maintenance calendar so people could be made aware these back end changes were being deployed. It would save them huge resources in trouble tickets and responding to the same questions over and over again. I'm going to suggest this idea unless they already have it somewhere I haven't noticed before. Thanks for the clarification . . .

Jon, There are quite a few energy monitors out in the market today. There are very few energy management integrated systems though. There are even less energy management devices that integrate tightly with home automation like the 994 Series Controller. Even worse, the industry has been plagued with lots of toy like energy monitors that simply use mythical unicorn software to detect energy signature readings! Whether it be Smappee, Neurio, Sense, etc. All of these devices are toys which offer a really slick front end but offer very limited long term data aggregation, charting, graphing, and God forbid a open API to the public. Never mind the incessant need to be completely cloud dependent on its operations. Brultech has lead the charge in this area for more than 20 years and continues to do so now. I haven't met or worked with another company besides UDI that has been so open to ideas and implementing the very same. The sad reality is energy monitoring / energy management is not sexy. Its not something the average person really thinks about nor is it something a person sees much value in. The bulk of us are just plain consumers and never pay much thought about how to conserve or to at least reduce our impact on the Earth or the resources at hand. As much as I despise fad products like the above: Smappee, Neurio, Sense. The other side of the coin is even worse and that is from vendors like Aeotec HEM, TED, HOBO, Savant, Schneider Electric, Eaton, etc. As some of the products even though they offer much more in terms of real connectivity are still toy like. While others like Eaton, HOBO, Schneider, have zero interest in integrating with HA or working with the general public to develop their wares. Trust me I know because I spent the last 20 years working with some of these companies in huge multi million dollar projects. None of them were willing to use the massive resources they have at hand to even come close to what Brultech offers, none. I always find it sadly funny and ironic that huge companies with more resources than God. Never see the gold mine and potential for their wares that could be easily be in every home in the free world. But, decide its best to cater to the random industries instead?!?!? Energy Management in the Enterprise area has never really taken off either. Nor has it really been developed to the point where its easy to view the data in meaningful ways. My personal view is Energy Management / Energy Monitoring is still another 10 years out. UDI has spent very little time or resources to update the Energy Module where it has value or practical uses for the average person. When I see the countless Z-Wave people all scrambling to buy, install, and use the same energy data. Does it not say there is a consumer need?? I've pretty much given up trying to push UDI in the development of the energy module as they indicate zero demand for said product. My energy and resources have been focused in helping Brultech shore up and fill in the massive holes in the former. Its safe to say in the next 18 months people will see some incredible updates from the Brultech team. Working with such a fantastic company during the last five years has been quite the honor and pleasure. At last count they had incorporated no less than 200 feature requests from me and other like minded folks. I find many people tend to follow - I prefer to lead!

I suppose for me if she made the tone from the onset things would probably be just fine for me too. But what bothers me is the tone is not very distinct or very loud to confirm said task was done or ack'd. Like many I believe this issue is so simple - All they have to do is add the option to toggle the two choices for those wanting one or the other. Also, I am unsure what others are talking about with the smart application having changed? I don't see anything different and none of the names or positions have changed? As Scott asked before is there a pending iOS update I haven't seen or received?