oskrypuch

Yes, worth a shot. The current outlet is an isolated circuit, straight to the panel, for small current electronics only. And it would be odd to hit only inbound PLM traffic, but we are into the Twilight Zone on this one. Orest

Thanks! An interesting idea, and I'm game for anything. So, Polisy has two sources of link data? That is, if it copies (possibly faulted) data from the PLM to its table, where would it get fresh "correct" data to restore with? The time lag, from working (when restored), to not is a little hard to explain. With the old modem in place, doing a RESTORE DEVICE, (always) worked but only for a day or so. But, I actually have done exactly that (RESTORE DEVICE) on several devices, with the new PLM in place, more just to restore their function! But, I was going to watch them to see when/if they stopped functioning. Will report back. Orest

So, in a nutshell, a large, mature Polisy install, with a few ZWave devices controlled by the old 700 series dongle. Just recently, noticed a fault, 100% consistent, and I've now defined it definitively: Any transmissions from peripheral insteon devices do not reach the Polisy, and are not acted on. That includes both wireless and wired devices, so motions, remotes, but also panel buttons Transmissions between insteon devices (shared scenes etc.) work fine Control of insteon devices, that is insteon device reception of signals from Polisy, works fine Activating programs or scenes from either the admin UI or the android app work fine ZWave devices are not affected, work 100% A DEVICE RESTORE of a given insteon device will result in restoration of function, but only briefly, perhaps 12 to 24 hours. Thought the PLM was going bad, replaced it with a new 2413U. Fully restored all functions, then bizarrely the next day back to the identical fault condition. I rebooted the system a couple of more times, for good measure, that actually made no change. Network noise seems unlikely, as it is only one way communications that is an issue, and there is no delay in that, it is "crisp". Further I used a remote button device within a couple of feet from the PLM, so the hop would have been wireless entirely, and it did not work. I'm not an expert on the event viewer, but from what I could see the system event viewer did not show any inbound activity when triggered, but normal outbound, reflecting what I am seeing with the system. It strikes me as unusual that it takes a while for the fault to cover, once temporarily mitigated, some sort of buffer over-run or something? Yet a reboot didn't help. @Guy Lavoie -- you were right to call this one an odd one, it may be the odd one of the year! I was thinking of refreshing the IOX install, but would have to find an old copy of 5.4.4, can't easily move beyond that as the OS in the Polisy is older. The early ZWave controller has been a bit of an anchor in that regard, as those definitions would have to be all redone, if I update. Is the Polisy dying, bad memory, or some component thereof? Running out of things that could be at fault. Disheartening, on top of losing the function of the smart home niceties. Orest

"Smart" house is coming back alive. Still have to crawl around and get the wireless water sensors, but then it will be done. Just needed to replace the PLM. Bought a new 2413U, got it connected to the Polisy, and initialized as per the procedure. EDIT: Not great, identical problem recurred after 24 hours with the brand new PLM. I am back to square ONE.

By "ISY", you mean to say the older ISY 994 platform, or the newer POLISY as well? Orest

A Polisy will still accept the DB9 serial adapter, from a 2413S, that is actually what I have currently. There was a serial/USB adapter for the Eisy as well, but not sure if it is available any more, either. But for sure, best to get a 2413U, rather than trying to ebay out a 2413S combo. Orest

@auger66 Well, I think you are in the "interlude", at the moment. 😉 I would suggest, if you have a recurrence, buy a new PLM and carefully do the full the replacement procedure. (as per above) OTOH, if it doesn't recur soon, if you have an older PLM (pre v2.4 or so), just get a new PLM anyway, and have it in inventory for the future. I have ordered a new 2413U, should be here in a couple of days, and will report back. For now my smart house, is semi-dumb! It seems that the fault state, affects any device where the system expects to hear from it with a Tx. Obviously that includes wireless motions, remotes and water detectors, but that also includes the 6/8 button panels and similar. And the fact that a device restore (temporarily) corrected the issue, to me strongly suggests it is a hardware rather than logic/software issue. All points to the PLM, the usual weak link. Orest

EDIT: Replacing the PLM did NOT work -- OK, found the original PDF as well (clipped below). I understand it is critical to have Polisy discover the new PLM, and not use the old PLM address, so the reboot. I might just give a refresh of the PLM (without replacing it) a try as well. In that case, I start at the dashed line I added in below? Orest To replace a PLM: Unplug ISY from the power outlet Unplug the PLM from EISY/POLISY and power outlet Connect the EISY/POLISY to the new PLM Plug the new PLM into a power outlet Plug ISY into a power outlet Go to Admin Console and wait for system initialization to complete . - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - (to just refresh a current PLM, start here) Click on the Battery icon at the top. This will prevent EISY/POLISY from trying to update programming on your RF devices which are probably in sleep mode Click on the Restore Modem (PLM) menu option In case EISY/POLISY cannot communicate during the process, you will have a series of nodes with green 1011 icons in the device tree. For each one of those nodes: If an RF device, ensure that the device is in Programming mode Right mouse click | Write pending updates ..

Now to find the docs, so I get the sequence exactly right. Can't find "replace PLM" or similar, in the wiki. I know it is there somewhere ... Anyone? Orest

Yes, I just checked. I knew that there was at least one, as I have the old 700 series ZWave dongle plugged in. I feared there wasn't a second. Orest

Oh dear, last 2413S I have (v2.5) I have it marked with tape saying "bad?". And they don't sell serial PLMs any more. Need to go USB modem, so that means I remove the current serial cable, and just plug the USB cable in directly? Orest

Spoke too soon! Same failure, again. So perhaps a PLM refresh, and if that doesn't work (or maybe just do it as I have spares), a PLM replacement/refresh. Orest

Yes, I was thinking the same, an odd one! I am suspecting the PLM, but so odd to have such a specific grouping of devices all fail at the same time. Maybe some sort of "logic wave" that went through the system, and it affected only certain kinds of devices. A stretch I know. I was going to try the PLM refresh, but it takes a bit of time, so thought why not -- try the simple device restore first. I would expect that restores the device's entries in the PLM tables, besides the device itself. Maybe I should still do a PLM refresh, to catch things I haven't noticed yet. Orest

EDIT: NO JOY, problem recurred within 24 hours. See here, and down thread ... https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/46764-multiple-devices-become-unresponsive-not-solved/ -- I have recovered from this, I think, but can't be certain there still aren't some issues. I am wondering if there is something more I should do, like certain diagnostic steps, or even potentially replace the PLM. In some 15 yrs of ops, have never seen quite this kind of failure. The System System is large, 100+ devices, mostly insteon, a bit of zwave (700 series dongle), polisy running "LTS" 5.4.4. Zwave was added during the time of insteon troubles. Stuck at 5.4.4 as the polisy OS won't support further upgrades, and the bit of Zwave now complicates a move (reflash/restore etc.), so been sitting on it for a bit. The Problem One morning I noticed that ALL of my wireless insteon devices stopped working (ISY would not see any transmits), that includes the 2842 motions, the newer 2844 motions, and the mini two & four key 2432 remotes. But, in addition a number of the 2334 eight/six button units would also not be seen by the ISY. Curiously, scenes that toggled the state of the buttons on these, still functioned. (so ISY saw no TX, but units accepted RX) Zwave devices not affected. In the UI, no device showed as not responding, or any indication of offline status, except that the wireless devices' pages showed blank fields, that is no ON or OFF status, etc., and not able to QUERY or change settings. The was no "nine blink" indication on the motion devices (indicating network connection loss), nor the "three blink" showing low battery. What I Did Scratched my head for while, checked the diagnostic screens, nothing obvious to me. Then on a lark, starting with the simplest thing, I put one of the wireless devices in link mode, and did a simple RESTORE DEVICE command. I saw the usual activity dialogs, and then amazingly, the device started working normally! I then tried this with one of the 2334 eight button panels, that restored its function as well. I went through each of the devices (that I know faulted), and did the same. They all started working. The Question How did this happen? Do I need to do anything more? Were all of the wireless devices, or matching tables in the PLM, somehow selectively memory corrupted? But, what about the eight button panels too? Is the PLM starting to fail. Certainly I've seen random devices fall off for control when that happened in the past, but never such a logically grouped set of devices, nor could I restore function as easily. With the device restores the system seems to be back up and running. Pretty sure the PLM is newer version, with the updated capacitors. Thoughts?? Orest

Is that from aartech? They currently show (continuous) "sale pricing", and an "on order from vendor" tag. We may get double tariffed when they eventually show up, with two borders to cross. * Orest

Personally, I would much prefer to use devices that stay off WiFi. I do isolate IOTs on a subnet, but they still take up bandwidth, are generally less well behaved given their simple firmware and even occasionally malicious. * Orest

Yes and No. The card is easy to get running, but there is no way to backup/restore your Z-Wave definitions from the Zooz dongle. You will have to remove/redefine the Z-Wave devices. Then, all the Z-Wave tags will not match, etc. So a lot of manual fiddling. I am wrestling with this issue right now. Definitely not plug and play, from an older Z-Wave setup. * Orest

@chris.com As long as there still is a full & maintained deep end, sure, I am all for creating a simpler interface that will build market share for UDI for a wider audience. But building a portable interface in stateless HTML, dolled up with JS, and making it slick and powerful can be a bit daunting as well. An interesting reflection .... Many years ago, basic variables were introduced in the interface. Of course before that, you had to use "programs" THEN/ELSE as booleans. I was all excited, as many were. But, I remember a post at that time, "What is a variable, and what would you use it for?" That pretty much defines the two markets. * Orest

FWIW, there is nothing (necessarily) slow, limited, clunky or "old" about a program written in Java. For example, some of the best IDEs are fully java, and very impressive and powerful. It is all in the programming. A web based interface can be slow and clunky as well. * Orest

There has been little comment on the new browser UI. I sure hope it is not a drag and drop, app-like, limited functionality thing. The UDI app is super useful, but it has a different mission and cannot replace a full IDE. (well, as full as we have now) * Orest

Just trying to get all my ducks in a row. Yes, have read through all the wiki materials, more than once for other hardware migrations, this one is a bit more complicated. This site has a large mature system in place, mainly Insteon, currently running a Polisy with the original ZWave dongle. I started up with ZWave during the time of troubles for Insteon. I have a ZMatter card sitting on the shelf, not in use yet. The Polisy in question is running 5.4.x and would need a OS update to move to 5.8.x. I have performed this on another Polisy I have, but that was a small install with no ZWave, so simple to do with a flash followed by a simple restore. That is principally why this system is "stuck" at 5.4.x. If I expend some time moving the ZWave stuff over, would prefer to move it to up to date hardware. As I understand it, the old ZWave dongle does not have an easy backup route, and it seems a bit up in the air if I can just move it physically to the Eisy, and make it all work. And I would prefer to get the ZMatter card in place. The ZWave part of this is what is holding things up. Ideally I would like to set up the new Eisy/ZMatter, ensure it all works, and then step-wise switch over, with the ability to go back if I absolutely had to. I understand that I would have to remove/reinstall every ZWave device, I would plan to just move one over and play with the new equipment, as a toe test. The other huge question, is what you do with the (serial) PLM replace/migrate. I do have extra PLMs available, and I could use one completely independently of the current in use PLM. I have replaced PLMs before, but that is a bit of pain running around refreshing all the wireless modules. I am familiar with the physical connectivity issue, serial/USB/adapters. I would prefer to restore the Insteon devices and code to the Eisy, and then unplug the old Polisy PLM, and plug it into the Eisy. I understand that should work, following the instructions in the wiki. That would allow be to reverse the steps, and go back to the Polisy if I had to. Then I would have to one by one bring the ZWave modules in, and of course edit all the code because the module numbers won't match up, etc. Very messy. That would leave my Polisy/ZWave dongle undisturbed, and if things blew up or didn't work, I could in the short term still move back to keep the system up. The portal and UD mobile is the other headache. I do have a lot of defined widgets for my Polisy set up, I fear that I will have to go and manually recreate them for the new Eisy once it is in place. I understand that UD mobile can facilitate ZWave additions, so would want to harness that. Also have some Polyglot modules. I may have to buy new licenses for these. The most important one is my Tempest WeatherFlow station support. Thoughts? Suggestions? Oh, and one last item. I purchased a couple of Polisys way back, as it turned out just a few months before the Eisy was announced. I do hope there isn't a Eisy II in the works real soon? Would not want to repeat that mis-step. * Orest

I may be in a similar situation soon. IIRC, the EISY comes set up to only work with the new USB board. BUT, that is a software setting, it can be reset to use the old 700 series dongle. You may have to create a ticket. * Orest

Subject & body have text. Simple text. * Orest

So, this is using the "default" email server in IOX. Messages are just short text compositions. Today I noticed that no email notifications were being sent from one Polisy machine (v5.4.4), and trying a test message gives ... \\ BUT, another Polisy machine that about up to date (v5.8.0), email notifications are still coming. But (again), the other odd thing that I have noticed in the last month or so, is that I would get duplicate notice mails, that were sometimes months old. The message text time stamp was old, but the email time stamp was current. It is like it was resent. * Orest

I have just sat on it, for now. * Orest