telljcl

bmercier, With the Trane unit XL624 you mention, do you have to have the Nexia bridge and account or can you enroll the t-stat directly to the ISY z-wave module? I would assume you would need the Nexia bridge / account for any app or web-based access that is outside what can be done via ISY / z-wave? What does the Nexia bridge / account let you do that you can't with just the ISY? I assume they probably charge monthly for this? (Venstar does not). A little fuzzy on all this z-wave stuff. Thanks!

Thanks for the comments - I guess I should at least get the z-wave module (and external antenna, I guess, since my ISY is in a network wall enclosure and I don't really want to re-locate it). I've spent way more time playing with thermostats than I ever thought I would or should already - what's another few hours. Looks really basic, but what about the cheap 2gig CT100 units? Anybody have any experience with these? I"m not really about the color screens and backgrounds so much as just getting things done competently and being able to program / communicate reliably and then forget it. Also, since I don't have Z-wave, would all the z-wave thermostats have the same functions (as far as ISY / z-wave is concerned)? I.e. would the "things you can control" (temp set point, fan on/off, humidity set point, schedule on/off etc...) and the "things you can monitor" (room temp, remote sensor temp, humidity, current set point, current schedule status (yes / no) etc...) be the same with any of these thermostats? And do they allow programming / setting of setup parameters via zwave or must all that be done at the 'stat? Just so many questions. I need to find something else to worry about I think. Thanks

Thanks Michel, So "5.0" is going to add what exactly? Pardon my ignorance, but I have been a more casual user but have had my ISY system for quite some time and enjoy its functionality. I don't quite know what REST commands are, or what uses them. I guess I say "does z-wave work" because I see so many with connection / range issues, that I don't want to fight that fight along with whatever other hurdles might be related. I have a lot of Insteon, but the Insteon RF in my experience is really really bad - I don't want it to have anything to do with something I depend on to work. So while I'm sure they can work, I guess I'm looking for a very sound and bullet-proof type scenario where I do it and its done, and my wife isn't calling me to say the air conditioner is broken etc... How would I go about finding out what features / controls are available with, say Zigbee / RCS? (What can I monitor, what can I change). Is there a "list" of z-wave units that work with ISY? Thanks

I'm still a little confused over the Thermostat options that will communicate with the ISY. I've tried several that I know work (to some extent) - Venstar wifi, Aprilaire rs-485 via ELK. But is there a place that has comprehensive information on the current options and what the requirements / limitations of each is? For example: For each connection type: (Wifi, Z-wave (does it ever work?), Insteon (does it ever work?), wired, Zigbee, Proprietary, etc.... Who makes one, what is it called, what can you do / not do, is it cloud-based or local and cloud, only cloud, what other components (HW or SW) do you need to make it work? What are the future possibilities in terms of potential - i.e. with ISY version 5.0 (not sure what this will bring but I see references to it a lot). What is REST and how does it apply to current thermostats? At this point I can't find a great thermostat that the ISY can control reliably. I can find one that it supposedly controls (not reliable), I can find one that it does control (but isn't a very good thermostat), and I can find one that is a good thermostat and can be controlled only somewhat (not what I want to spend a lot of time and money to achieve). Maybe that's the lay of the land right now, but before I revert back to my 8 year old Honeywell VisionPro non-communicating 'stats, I just want to be sure I'm considering all the possibilities. Thanks for any additional insight.

Thanks - I''m using my gmail account - sending from and to myself, if that matters ?

I have a program set up to send an email when an air conditioner starts and stops (2 events). Event works perfectly, as it also logs minutes of "on" time etc... Since I'm not good enough with the ISY to figure out how to send all this to a log or .txt file, I have the start time and stop time emailed. That's a lot of emails with multiple AC units, but it is telling me what I need to know. I'd say 5% of the time I don't get an email. The way it is set up, every time there is an "ON" , there has to be an "OFF". So I can easily tell when an email is missed because I only have one or the other for that particular run-cycle. Can't seem to find any mention of an error anywhere - maybe it's a gmail problem? Maybe the best fix is to be able to somehow time stamp these starts and stops and send them to a file - the only "time stamp" I can find is by using "Notifications" (email in this case), however, hence my method. Any help appreciated. Thanks!

io_guy, Thanks for the insight. I'm aware of the double-press to wake the screen, and that's not a problem at all. The AprilAire 8800 (Honeywell based) is also like this, however my Honeywell Visionpro 8000's don't need the extra touch. Just pressing temp up/down etc... gets some presses, misses others. Like you said, you actually have to PRESS, not just touch, the screen. One other thing I've figured out - the screen flicker / interference effect is due to the Display Dimmer, if you have it set for something besides Brightest. If you set it at BRIGHTEST, flicker goes away. I didn't try every setting, but 70%-90% flickers. Haven't looked that closely yet when it is on "Idle" dim, which I have set at around 20%. Maybe it is just my unit that does this? All in all, with the ability to do a lot of the programming and "button pushing" remotely, it's not really a deal breaker. It just seems like the CPU running the T-stat is maxed out - the spinning fan symbol hiccups once in a while and I feel like the missed presses are related to the slow CPU also. So the Honeywell API (Is it "out" - can you get it or do you have it?) requires commands to be sent to their (Honeywell's) servers, and then their servers relay any changes on to the T-Stat? Kind of like "Venlink" residing on their machine instead of mine I guess. I'd sure rather skip the cloud part for direct control, but the Honeywell has a few features / adjustments the T5900 doesn't have (control of fan speed in dehumidify mode, for example), ability to use wired and wireless temp / humidity sensors, monitoring of delta T if you want it, and 3 semi-programmable relays that can control other things relating to your equipment depending on how it is set up. Almost too many parameters. I think the T5900 has 95% of what I need, so I'm leaning that way, but I may buy the Honeywell Prestige IAQ / Redlink and try it out as well just to be complete, esp. if there is any possibility (even if only cloud) of integration with ISY or ELK.

Paul, Thanks for your comments. I have used the skyport app, and it is pretty good. Since I haven't used any of the other cloud-based apps yet (Honeywell's, for example) I can't really tell you too much, other than the app's graphics and ease of control are better than the ELK M1 (android) app I have (M1 Touch Pro). Though the M1 app is pretty simple and works well, the Venstar (and I presume most of the other T-stat mfg. apps) are much more capable (i.e. can alter program schedules, set some of the "programming" parameters of the T-stat, see other temperature or humidity readings from other sensors). While I think the Venstar is a capable unit and seems to have most things right, the build quality is bugging me a little (have to press the screen 2 maybe even 3 times sometimes for it to register a keypress - sometimes its OK with one press...) It hasn't lost wifi link that I know of. It has great adjustability and features (humidity control and adjustability is esp. nice), so I guess I should call it done and buy the 4 more that I need, but the Honeywell Prestige IAQ with the Redlink system (remote from T-Stat to HVAC equipment I really have no need for, but their "WiFi" T-Stats that look just like the Prestige IAQ don't have humidity control (though they may show it on screen) that I can tell) look like the most adjustable, capable and expandable - but can't be talked to by the ISY or the ELK!! Also I'm unsure if the Honeywell API mentioned in this thread is for the Redlink units or the WiFi models, or both (if you have the Redlink / ethernet bridge)?? Honeywell has always made solid T-Stats (at least higher end stuff) in my estimation, and the 5 year warranty on their stuff -vs- the 1 year on the Venstar coupled with the (perceived) build quality is a little concerning since I'd be buying a lot of it. Chris

Is there any more information on using the Honeywell Prestige / Redlink gateway units with ISY? I've been trying several thermostats to replace my Honeywell Visionpro 8000 non-communicating models and thus have bought and tried or am trying: AprilAire 8800 - talks to ELK M1 (which talks nicely with the ISY) - hardwired to ELK panel, requires a protocol "box" to talk to ELK. No "app" just for T-stat. Must program etc... from T-Stat. Easy to implement rules / automation Only the basic controls, however, are implemented by ELK / ISY Not an "exciting" thermostat, but fairly configurable (not as good as it could be) - clearly based on Honeywell or is OEM'd by them Build quality is solid, size is normal to slightly large Venstar T5900 Uses wifi, has a cloud "app" which is pretty good Cumbersome to implement rules / automation (uses a server program - Venlink - between ISY and Thermostat - which is GREAT to have, but programming is a bit more tedious - I'll take it though!) Somewhat more complete set of automation controls available -vs- 8800, thanks to Venlink Has color touchscreen etc..., but lacks a bit of polish (often slow response to touch, display has a bit of flicker / slight interference on occasion) Looks odd with wifi key on the side, build quality I'd say is adequate. Pretty small overall (may not cover wall holes / paint) - though the screen is used well and doesn't seem too small Have not considered Z-Wave / Insteon units because of RF issues I don't want to get involved with. Looking now at the Honeywell Prestige 2.0 / Redlink units. These seem really configurable, but clearly the big issue is no control via automation it seems? If something like Venlink for Venstar could be put together (in the absence of a "plugin" for ISY) it would be ideal. It appears from this thread that Honeywell has made the API for this T-Stat available? I'd be interested in anything else regarding these units and / or the possibilities of getting these talking to the ISY if anyone knows. Thanks!

Interesting on the Nest units. Not a big fan of those, but I'm glad someone has them working together with ISY and / or ELK. Haven't seen any info on the new Honeywell "smart" units (not the older z-wave one) either - I wonder if anyone has been able to get those to work with ISY or ELK. All these manufacturers are happy to make an "app" to control their stuff, but only if a user wants to do the controlling manually, while holding a tablet or phone, in real time. What genius it would be to AUTOMATE some of this action, based on changing conditions! Seems simple enough but I guess they don't want to miss out on an opportunity to make another dollar.

Thanks! That's good concise information. It appears, however, that the communication is Insteon RF, which I'm not a big fan of. I've got probably 80 Insteon units at the moment, and while most of the wired units have "essentially" 100% reliability, the RF-only ones range from about what the wired ones are down to 25% or maybe worse. I'm sure my home has some electrical issues I haven't found, and I could move modules around etc..., but I want my HVAC equipment to be bulletproof. For this reason, I run most or all of what I deem "mission critical" stuff through the ELK (all wired) if at all possible. Also the reason I'm not looking at Z-Wave T-Stats. I do realize RF communication varies and some environments (and some people's luck!) are better than others, but I don't want to depend on Insteon RF in this application. I am very curious about the Venstar WiFi units though - WiFi is the one RF protocol I'd probably gamble with, as I don't see people complaining about dropped links etc... with these units. If there was an ELK "Plugin" for WiFi Venstar, that would be ideal, but perhaps the bridge software mentioned above won't be too cumbersome. Thanks again for the insight.

Thanks, Michel. Not what I wanted to hear, but thanks. I've had the ISY a long time so not a huge issue, but I just always have trouble understanding what the ELK, or ISY, or any gizmo that might "connect" with it / them will or won't do. Buy and Try I guess. hbsh01 - thanks for the suggestion on Venstar. Which model of Venstar would this be, and when you say fully supported, does that mean everything you can see on the thermostat, and program into the thermostat, is also do-able from within ISY? So this does not connect to the ELK in any way? How does Venstar connect to the ISY? Thanks for your time.

Great idea on using houselinc - I still have my old PLM (USB I think?) Could I use that with my PC to do what you're describing?

Maybe this would be better suited for the ELK area, but I've installed a few AprilAire 8800's to try out and had a few questions. There seems to be a very limited number of things you can "check" (or change) via the ELK / ISY rules / programs as it relates to these (or any?) thermostats. For example, there appears to be no way to see if the compressor is actually running or not. You can see if the thermostat is in "cool", "heat" or "auto" mode, but can't confirm what the compressor is doing. I guess you could compare the set point temp (which you can poll) to the room temp (you can also poll that) and make a guess as to whether the compressor is running or not. You also can't tell if the fan is running - only if it is set to "auto", "on", or "circ". For a while now I've had relays on my HVAC units that tell the ELK if the compressor(s) are running, and which stage, so I can program certain things as a result. I can also keep track of cycles, "On" time, overlap, etc... I thought with these new thermostats I wouldn't need my old solution, but turns out I do. Also it appears that most or all of the Thermostat setup settings are not available through ISY / ELK. You also can't see what the exterior temperature sensor is reading, and you also can't do any programming of time period / temperature settings. All this still has to be done at the Thermostat. I think you can do it with an RS-232 connection, a computer and a lot of cryptic command syntax, but is there no interface / program out there where you can access any of this for program purposes from ISY or ELK? Not sure if this makes any sense, but it is a little frustrating to spend additional money and still not have a whole lot more control over this stuff. Any direction would be appreciated as I'm not very good at the ISY and am completely new to the thermostat integration part. Thanks!

Thanks, Lee. I guess that makes more sense. Essentially, ISY keeps track of the Insteon Status by what is supposed to have happened as opposed to what may have actually happened, it appears. I guess I can build in "query" commands after a scene is run to see if they actually happened completely or not as there seems to be no other way (I guess this is essentially what a KPL etc... does automatically, and causes the "blink") Somewhat related to this, this brings up another question related to signal issues. The old Smarthome software (Houselinc maybe?) had a diagnostic feature(s) which enabled automated, repeated communication with all (or just those you select) devices and would run this a specified number of times, and present a % success / failure rate for each responder communicated with. There was other detailed info as well, but some of it was over my head. Is there any diagnostic tool like that ISY has that can run tests on all devices so it might be easier to diagnose any signal areas which are prone to failure? Thanks!

Lee, I assumed all of the architecture of the entire Insteon Network was known to the ISY (what a keypress on key "B" on keypad 5 is supposed to do)? So the ISY cannot monitor keypad (or other insteon controllers) for failure feedback? In an ISY program scenario, the ISY (apparently due to the PLM?) is unable to verify success or failure? Is there someway to "verify" that all elements of a scene got switched (short of blindly sending multiple "turn scene off" commands)? I always assumed the ISY was the traffic cop of all the happenings on the Insteon network - I must not have a good understanding of it. Thanks for your help.

I was curious if there is any way to have the ISY monitor the "success" of its communication with devices? I have numerous programs that turn things ON or OFF due to various conditions, but sometimes one item in a scene (say, a keypad button) won't "get the message", so the lamp associated with the scene gets turned on, but not the keypad button light that goes with it. Sometimes it might be the other way around. I've got some of the more "critical" programs set to re-run a minute or so later to increase the chances that it will work every time. Doesn't the ISY get feedback on status so that it knows if the commands got through? Shouldn't it try again if something didn't work? Also, I get the same issue occasionally launching scenes from a keypad button (not ISY initiated) - the button will rapid-flash after I press it to let me know something may not have worked right (although usually it did work right, but the keypad apparently didn't get a response from something). Isn't the ISY aware of what is supposed to happen in this scene also, and shouldn't it "buffer" and/or re-transmit commands it doesn't get a confirmation status from? I do realize the best thing is to have a perfect electrical environment where there is never a missed command, but I've done about what I can do in that regard, and its pretty reliable, but I'm sure I'm probably missing something here in relation to error handling or command re-sends. Thanks!

Thanks for your input - You are exactly right. Not what I expected but I'm glad it's simple. I get multiple emails from leak sensors (insteon wireless) but I guess that's because they send multiple signals if they stay wet.

I'm looking to create a file (or email, since that seems easier to me since I'm not very informed at ISY programming) that contains "This status changed to: "On" at 3:32pm" I can write a simple program to email me at the time of the event (an ELK zone / alarm status change), but I think it will keep emailing me until the status changes to something else? Something like this: IF: ELK, Zone 1, Status, is Violated, Then: email me (preset message which identifies Zone# , plus timestamp variable) I'm looking to just get only 1 email (or generate 1 text file, better yet) for each change of state - how would I go about this? Thanks!

Thanks, I think the problem may be because I'm trying to get 3 states out of one zone (quasi-analog I guess - 0volts, 7volts, 13volts). ISY seems to recognize "Violated" or "Secure" very quickly - as you indicate. I'm using this in a few programs myself. The issue seems to be detecting "physical status" or "voltage" in programs. For example, "If zone 1 voltage is >1.0 volts..." I find this doesn't get detected unless I manually poll the ELK zone page in the ISY admin screen. Maybe it gets detected at some point, but it is not anywhere near real-time - sometimes 5 minutes or a lot more. The fix I guess is to use more zones, more wires, to determine what is going on with my HVAC unit, but I'd like to use less. Also a little cumbersome to use relays to convert 24vac signals to "short" or "open" so I can read status with ELK / ISY. Anybody know of either a better way to do this or know of, say, a 4 channel solid state micro relay board that has 24vac "coils"? Everything that is small and power efficient seems to be 5vdc or 12vdc. Thanks for any insight

I am having trouble getting a (or any) keypad button to light up (not a programmed button) to show status of some dynamic status - in this case, the status of an ELK zone (short or open). EDIT: I think the problem is with using Voltage or "physical status" in my programs, as opposed to "violated" or "secure" - see my post 2 below - Thanks! I've made a scene with the keypad button as a responder, and made a program which says "if ELK zone 1 status is not "open" then turn off scene 1". Another says "if elk zone 1 status is "open" then turn on scene 1". If I run the "then" lines manually, the light goes on or off. It's as if the ISY doesn't run the program constantly, if at all - how do I need to write this? ELK works fine and status shows up in ISY - been configured for years. Hope this makes sense - thanks.

Thanks! So the Honeywell z-wave touch panel unit is supported and all features work 100%? My ISY 994 unit came with the Zigbee radio, but is the Z-wave add-on radio out of beta at this point and where do I get one if it is? Is the Z-wave range acceptable? I have 5 thermostats placed around the house, only 1 would be anywhere near the ISY unit (maybe 25', through several walls). Thanks again, Chris

Want to be able to control 5 thermostats via either ELK or ISY, but would prefer ISY. Have Honeywell VisionTouch 8000 units now that I've liked a lot, but want the same functionality plus conditional and / or direct remote control. It seems that there are long lists of issues with a number of the options currently available - anyone have any success stories? And regarding Honeywell's wifi touch unit (looks just like me VisionTouch 8000s) - any way to talk to these via ISY or ELK? Not really interested in just "an app" to control it - want to be able to write programs to modify basic operation depending on this that or the other. I'd prefer reliable non-automated thermostats to ones that connect with my home automation that I can't depend on to work reliably 99% of the time, FWIW. Not looking for something to tinker with any more than I'm already tinkering! Thanks!

Thanks Lee - I'm brain dead I guess. Totally forgot that I could "set" a query!

Thanks to both! I did notice the newer appliance link unit that is supposed to be shipping next month has this functionality - that will be nice. Just wanted to see if I could make better use of some of the old ones I have.