oberkc

Your solution is one of the more efficient options that I mentioned, but was too lazy to figure out. Nice job. Exactly. And if you turned on the scene, they would both go on.

Are these dozen switches not installed? Did someone else install them? The new one would be installed like the others. Any (there may be an exception) insteon switch requires a line, neutral, and ground. If you intend to control a load with this switch, then you need access to the load's line and neutral connections. Pick a switch that suits your tastes. As suggested, you may consider a keypad. This would allow you to control up to eights scenes. Any insteon switch can act as a "master", including any of the twelve that you already have. All insteon switches have the ability to control a load. If controlling a load is not needed, cap it off as already suggested. Communication between devices is over the powerlines (some exceptions). You may need access points or some way to communicate between various phases of your electrical system.

I understand multi-linking mode to simply be the ability to set one device (the controller) into linking mode, then linking more than one device as a responder, without having to put the first device back into linking mode between each responder. I do not understand it to have the capability to separate on and off control.

There is no doubt that one can set up an insteon switch to control other insteon switches without having an ISY. Your ideal scenerio was a bit more complicated than this, however. Your "ideal" scenerio would be to turn on 3 other devices from a single switch, but only turn off 2 of the 3 original devices. It is that particular scenario that I would have trouble doing without an ISY. If all you want to do is use a single switch to control (both on and off) 3 other switches, that is easy. Set all in a scene with the singles switch as the controller. This would be done the old-fashioned way of putting one device into linking mode, then linking other devices to it.

Does this mean that you have a program running continuously, until you stop it? Or is it that you want a programs "then" condition to run when you press the KPL buttons on, and a programs "else" condition to run when you press the KPL buttons off? I am assuming the latter. First, I suggest putting both KPL buttons into a scene, with both defined as controllers. The buttons also need to be in toggle mode, which is the default setting. This will keep the KPL buttons synced. Second, set up a program without "if" conditions, having only the desired "then" (turn lights on, for example) and "else" (turn lights off, for example) actions. Set up a second program. This program would look something like: if control KPL1 button X is switched on or control KPL2 button X is switched on then run first program then condition Set up a third program, similar to the second: if control KPL1 button X is switched off or control KPL2 button X is switched off then run first program else condition I suspect there are more efficient ways of doing this, but my brain is being lazy today.

Perhaps another way of looking at this is to recognize that household AC power varies in voltage from +110 to -110. It is not a constant 110 volts. At any given point in time the voltage could be anywhere in between. Current, is also alternating between extremes. The power factor recognizes that peak current (amps) may, or may not, occur at peak voltage. If peak current occurs when voltage is only 60, then power would be amps x 60V. The power factor is a way to define how far peak current shifts away from peak voltage. So, even with AC, power = volts times amps. It is just that you cannot assume that volts and amps are simultaneously at their peaks.

I would expect that you could do this, without an ISY. Simply put all the devices in a scene. I am having trouble envisioning how to do this without something like the ISY.

I do not like intermittent problems. My general instinct is that heat related failures would tend to be catastrophic. The fact that your problem appears to be intermittent makes me continue to suspect communication issues. Hopefully, it will stay working this time.

A couple of minor thoughts: First, I would not rely on activity of ISY front lights. I would definitely confirm by opening event viewer then trigger the scene. The event viewer should show reciept of expected signal. (Are you using X-10 here?) Second, I have generally treated "request failed" messages as communication errors. While I don't doubt failed devices can happen, I wonder if something is happening here with your comm. Are these switches on their own circuit? Is your theater A/V equipment filtered? Perhaps there are a couple of quick things to do in an attempt to determine switch failure. I think I would perform a factory reset on the switches, then attempting a restore. I might also try a manual link between another insteon device to see if there are further indications of a failed device.

Why would it be unethical?

My first reaction would be to perform a device compare, to see if the device links match those of the ISY. My suspicion with my system is that intermittent communication errors can cause mismatches between device and ISY. Perhaps you are seeing something like this. Did your device restore happen pretty quick, or did it seem like it took a long time? While your inconsistent response to restore makes me think otherwise, I would also check to make sure you do not have some mutually exclusive relationship going on between KPL buttons.

I don't have a good sense about the extent of your setup, but my first steps would be to perform some scene tests to see how broad your problem is, and to baseline you system communication. Assuming some problems are revealed, unplug any device that are generally accepted as potential signal degraders (electronics, plug-in power supplies, CFLs, computer-controlled appliances, etc.) Try the scene tests again. See if you have improvement. Don't stop until you have near 100% success with your scene tests. Others have shut off various circuits throughout the house to see if they could identify those that cause problems. This would tend to limit the search to devices on a given circuit. Of course, this may de-power some of you insteon devices, so you must account for this. The point being, you must identify those devices in your house that can cause communication problems and deal with them. It may be more than one device. There are many posts about dealing with communication errors. It is probably worth checking through them for some ideas.

I may be paranoid, but is that something you may want to keep off a public forum? Better make sure your password is something other than "admin" Sorry I stepped on this. Rand

As a quick experiment, temporarily unplug your audio equipment and TVs (and anything else on this circuit with the ISY/PLM). See if this helps. Hopefully it does. If so, then there is a very good chance that a filterlink will help.

I understand that 220 Volts is standard power for houses in the US. This is known as Line-to-Line (L-L) voltage. Each line is 110V relative to a neutral. Each line alternates between postive and negative voltages 60 times per second (Hertz). When one line is +110V, the other line is -110V, with the maximum difference in voltage between the lines of 220V. You have a dryer boosterlinc? You have two phases. All electrical panels that I have seen have two rows of breakers, with every other breaker in a row being on the same phase. If the first row has breakers 1,3,5,7,9, etc... then 1, 5, 9, etc are on one phase and 3, 7, 11, are the other phase. I have no quick way of determining if two outlets in your house are on the same phase or not. Physical inspection of the circuits and panel is the only way I can think. Fortunately, I am not sure that you need to. See the next discussion on access points. I would not be overly concerned with reponse to remotelincs and more concerned with whether your access points are on different phases. If you are unsure, the instructions are included with the access point, and available online at smarthome. I recall that it involves installing one access point, putting it into the installation mode by pressing the side button, then installing the second one and confirming proper response of the first. If you are unsure whether you have done this, I recommend going back and re-doing. Failing to have this set up properly could contribute to communication errors. Having this set up properly means that you have one access point on one phase, the other on another phase, and that you don't have to be further concerned with electrical phases. That is certainly not my understanding. While filterlincs were designed specifically for X-10, I understand they work well for insteon as well (I guess intsteon and X-10 frequencies are sufficiently close). I have about 10 filterlincs in my house and they have helped improve my insteon communication. By the way, I have found that many of my TVs and my audio equipment can contribute to insteon communication problems. I filter most of my TVs and my audio equipment. It helps a lot.

Taking over an hour for this does not necessarily surpise me, depending on the number of devices changed, and the number of links in each device. Some single devices in my system can take five or ten minutes to write. I you believe that moving the PLM closer to the panel has helped, I start to wonder about communication problems, as suggested by Mr Kohanin. Is your PLM normally located close to a lot of other electronic equipment, such as computers and power supplies? Are these devices filtered?

I have never liked relying on this method. I always want to solve the root problem, rather than mask it with access points. I want my powerline communication to be robust. Were it me, I don't think I would take this drastic action yet. It sounds as if you have identified specific devices with problems. Before starting over, I would now perform a link compare, to make sure that the device and ISY agree with each other. If not, I would perform a factory reset on the bad device, then restore from the ISY.

I am not sure that I would assume that having other devices in the same box that are working properly eliminates the possibility of communication errors. It is still possible that the switches are on different circuits. I have also come to believe that some devices are simply better than others. When you say that there are no changes to your "system", do you refer simply to your insteon system, or to the broader electrical system in your haouse. You have added no other electronic devices in your house? Is this problem random, or at certain times of the day? Do you notice any relationship to this problem during the furnace running? Washer/Dryer running? Refrigerator? Absent of any obvious relationships such as those above, I would attempt some scene tests of problem scenes in an attempt to identify a marginal communication environment. Your whole description of your problem sounds to me like communication problems. No doubt others will also ask what version of switchlinc dimmer you have. Some versions apparently exhibit random problems. It may be useful to add this to your post.

I have noticed that buttons configured as non-toggle on are constantly illuminated at the on level. Conversely, buttons configured to non-toggle off are illuminated in the off level, always. I am not sure that this meets your needs, either.

Yes, I understand your problem. There is no way, to my knowledge, to selectivly deactivate certain buttons on a KPL. However, if you can live with no status indication on ALL buttons on your KPL, then you may have options. On certain versions of KPLs, and with later versions of the ISY software, you can define lighting levels for both on indication, and off (applying to entire keypad). If you set both on and off to 0, then they will come on under no circumstances. Hopefully, your versions of KPL are new enough. That is also my understanding. It sounds like we are both coming up empty on this one. On these same versions of KPL and software, you can change illumination levels for on and off through programs, it is subject to the same limitations (applies to entire keypad). Sorry I could not be more help.

So it sounds like your PLM/ISY is located remotely from your computer. Out of curiousity, how do you connect your ISY and computer? Do you have an access points on the same circuit as your PLM? My experience suggests that TVs and stereo "junk" can cause communication problems for insteon. If you have a PLM in the same circuit as electronics of this type, I would be very tempted to filter them. I filtered all audio/video stuff. If you continue to suspect that there are communication problems between the remotelinc and ISY, I believe it is worth finding out why.

I hope you forgive my confusion, but how did you set this up? Did you use a scene? A program? I am also not certain what it is you are trying to achieve with your button illumination. It sounds like you don't mind if the KPL main on light is illuminated, but that you want the off light to be suppressed. I am unaware of any capability to define backlight levels for individual buttons, but the backlight dim setting of the KPL reduces the brightness for on, and eleminates backlight for off. Of course, this affects all buttons on a given KPL. On some versions of the KPL, there are variable backlight setting controllable by the ISY. Regarding the use of a KPL button to turn off when all of the lights in a scene are turned off, I do something that sounds similar. I use a program. Let's say I have three lights in a scene, light A, B, and C. The are all in a scene as responders with a KPL button as a controller. All are locally controllable, and I want the KPL button to turn off if I happen to manually turn them all off individually. I also want the KPL button to be on if ANY ONE or more of these lights are manually turned on. I set up a program something like: if light A is not off or light B is not off or light C is not off then set KPL button on else set KPL button off Perhaps a program like this would work for you.

Sounds good. Regarding X-10 motion sensors, I use several. I have found, however, that the better reciever interface is a useful addition to ensure reliable reciept of signals.

I would be afraid that your updated program would not work as intended. What happens if the light is turned off before the 5-minutes countdown ends? Does the condition then become false? If so, would the countdown cease and the fan remain on? What about two programs/ The first something like: If ( Control 'Front Bath Light' is switched On Or Control 'Front Bath Light' is switched Fade Up ) And Control 'Front Bath Light' is not switched Off Then Wait 5 minutes Set 'Front Bath Fan' On else The second something like: if control 'front bath light' is swithed off then wait 15 minutes shut fan off Of course, if they leave the lights on, the fan continues to run.

Nice x 2! I like it.