MrBill

Code doesn't provide for re-wiring the circuit to get neutral later. Yes, when you install Insteon there is no use for either traveler. Other systems may use one of the travelers as a traveler or other interconnect, freeing up one of the original travelers. Code doesn't say you can rewire the circuit to provide neutral at the switch location, instead code says: Note again: when reading the NEC you must read "grounded circuit conductor" as the word "neutral". None of the exceptions to 404.2(c) say, "except where you can rewire the circuit later to create a neutral". That has always been possible, yet code was changed to say "shall be provided at the switch location." which doesn't leave room for interpretation that the circuit can later be re-configured to comply. Except that is exactly what you're suggesting. Under current code, the neutral wire must be present in all switch locations without re-wiring the circuit, even if that means capping an used neutral. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This code change was made exactly because it was understood that someone with limited electrical wiring knowledge could be installing smart switches. It was also becoming all too common for people to find online postings that said: "connect the white wire from the switch to the bare.. It will work", yes it does make the switch work, but it also compromises the safety ground. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would never give that piece of advice to anyone. My (adult) son recently did exactly that and then thought he found "the mistake" in a box ahead of what he was working in, before he knew it he had two circuits on opposite phases combined, with romex heating up and trying to melt before the breaker tripped. (that's the point where he called me) There was no "mistake" originally. All he was trying to do was install a motion sensor in place of a switch, the motion sensor required neutral (which was present) but somehow he took everything in the switch apart, an unrelated switch and unrelated fixture apart. I literally spent just over an hour after I got there figuring out what was what... and I'm fast and experienced with wiring methods. In the aftermath I asked him some why questions, and he said he successfully did a motion in a different location, "except there weren't as many wires in that one". The piece of advice that I would give anyone attempting to change a switch is: Before unconnecting or unwiring anything take good quality pictures that show exactly how everything is connected. Take more than one... don't leave anything out, show where literally every wire is connected. If there could be confusion about "which black wire" then add labels or markers to remove the confusion before taking the pictures. At the very least they can put it back the way it was before, then seek outside help. Anyone that takes the project on themselves has already made the self-assessment that they think they know what to do. Once it works out differently than they expected the pictures have amazing value.

You're missing the point. Code now requires neutral to be run to each switch location (whether it's needed or used initially). When the requirement was added to code the discussion specifically centered around the fact many people were installing smart switches that required neutral. Where neutral wasn't present, the switches neutral was often connected to the grounding conductor (green/bare), which will make the switch work, the grounding conductor was never intended to be used as a current carrying conductor. Doing so can create an unsafe condition. In many cases, following the code requirement requires /4 between the switches. For the diagram I pasted above there is no way to be code compliant without running the extra unused conductor (why? because someone might someday want to install switches requiring neutral). The exception is the classic basic 3-way where Hot/Neutral enters the circuit at switch 1 and the switched load/neutral leaves at the switch 2 location, in that case neutral does exist at both locations by default. In many of the other 3-way configurations /4 must be used to comply with code requiring neutral at each switch location. (code also requires that Hot and Neutral run in the same cable or raceway, meaning that neutral can't be "borrowed" from the switch next door in the same box unless both switches are fed by the same physical piece of romex at the location. I agree that the price of romex is extraordinary today, but the statement that the drawing was made before the current cost of copper has no bearing... Neutral is required by code at each switch location, in the case of power fed first to the fixture (as the diagram above) there is no way to create a code compliant circuit without using /4 to the switch locations.

it's a code complaint diagram. Originally appear in the 2011 code cycle, but wasn't widely followed/enforced for a few years as is typical for many code changes. NEC 404.2(c): Note: When reading the NEC codebook, "grounded circuit conductor" refers to Neutral, while "grounding circuit conductor" refers to the Safety ground (bare or green). What's the hot wire? that would be the "ungrounded circuit conductor".

In the 70's it was very common for a circuit like in the diagram that I posted above for the white to be the Common terminal of the switch, which made it hot on one end and load on the other end. that leaves black and red as travelers. That logic probably carries forward from other version of the 3-way circuit where load travels back to switch 1 and the only wire left is white. It also wasn't very common to re-mark a re-purposed wire until the last 15 years or so, even after it was re-emphasized in the code book about 20 years ago, old-timers were slow to adopt. The important thing to do is not rely on a hot stick, because they do pick up induced voltages--- especially the cheapest versions. Better versions that have a battery are less prone to induced voltages. Better versions with a name like Klien or Fluke tend to be less prone to induced voltages. The $5 hardware store version that doesn't have a battery will light up from the slightest induced voltages. If I were a guessing, the white you have marked Hot is probably hot, Red and Black are probably the travelers and the white at the other end is likely the load. BUT that is only a guess.... I'd prove that safely with appropriate test equipment.

Are you using a meter or hot stick to detect power? I suspect hot stick... and i suspect it's finding stray ghost voltages created by induction. Based on the colors of your diagram power must feed to the fixture location first since there is only a single /3 (+ground) entering each box. Note this diagram has been updated to using /4 cable for current code requirements where neutral is required at each switch location. In your case you don't have a blue, and the white is used instead. Also note: in this diagram the travelers are Red/Blue... We don't know what two colors were picked for the traveler function in your shed/garage.

I have these in outdoor fixtures, I just tried to take a picture but there's too much sun right now, I'll try again after sunset. These are only 40watt equivalents (and I don't see a 60 equiv) but I can't imagine with 12 bulbs per chandelier that this wouldn't be enough light when bright.

I knew you were going to come say this... in fact I almost typed Larryllix will be along shortly to tell you how awful they are. Fact is i just purchased 2- 1600 lumen bulbs today, as usual they work perfectly with an insteon dimmer... full dimming range...

Maybe we should just schedule a date.... no dependencies required....

I wish we had a "Thumbs Up" reaction...

the device manages the ramp rate, so you're not sending as much traffic.... if you set the ramp rate the 30 seconds then send on, the light will slowing grow brighter for 30 seconds, then turn off, wait and turn on again... the insteon network only sees On, wait 30, Off, wait 2, <repeat> so there is only 2 insteon commands being sent every 32 seconds, and the effect should be attention getting. Another method if you have color changing light bulbs is just use a color like red and don't flash.

Of course when we all arrive.... None of us should introduce ourselves or wear nametags for the first part. Instead we should all have fun figuring out who is who.

Probably most likely... it all depends on the date. My wife's been wanting to do San Diego Zoo again and another attraction in San Diego that we missed last time, so it would be a good excuse... stop in LA and on to San Diego or vice versa.... LOL I just mentioned it as I was typing and she reminded me I've been wanting to do San Fransisco so it's looks like we will have quite a trip SFO,LAX and SAN.

The greatest limiting factor is the speed of the Insteon Protocol, it's very slow. You'd be much better if you set the interval to 5 seconds or greater. Or even better, adjust the ramp rate of a dimmable load to 30 seconds, then make the loop turn on the light, wait 30 seconds, turn the light off, wait 2 seconds and repeat that. This prevents the insteon network from being overloaded with communication traffic. (be sure to reset the ramp rate when the alarm is over tho.)

I'm very happy with Locative on iOS.... Locative not battery hungry at all. It takes about 20 seconds to realize I've left the geo fence, and generally finds we've entered it just as we hit the driveway. Sadly they discontinued Locative for android, it's iOS only. You must use the other version of the Occupancy node server. (Also note: I've sent a correction to UDI many moons ago but ignore this line of the wiki page "Note: if the user plans on only having one location for geofences you may skip this step. Locations may be added later, and devices may be assigned or reassigned to locations anytime." it is worded incorrectly. Don't skip that step unless only one person will be using the geofence, the folder created is for grouping people at a location not grouping locations.)

Actually I was just at HD, the packaging of the traditional light bulb (A-lamp) style is no longer marketed under the Warm Glow name... it says Phillips Dimmable LED with a purple box... the orange band at the top of the box has in printing that almost gets lost the words "Warm Glow Effect" The back of the box does show examples with in big letters "The more you dim the warmer the light" I think they made a mistake ditching the "Warm Glow" trademark/tradename.

Phillips Warm Glow... available at Amazon or Home Depot

Did you have the UD mobile app downloaded and set up before generating the 6-digit code? The way you're wording it sounds like you hit the "generate" button then downloaded and installed the app. I think you may need to have the app working before you "generate". Also, I'll tag @Javi also since this really falls directly into his lap....

In the early days my wife didn't understand. She at first thought it was a lot of expense for no benefit, her famous quote once, "if you want to turn on the light, all you have to do is turn on the light"...lol. The turning point was when she said, "it's nice not to have to go down to the backdoor to turn on the backyard lights." then a few days later, "It's so nice to have switches for the barn floods and the barn lights in the house." She quietly learned all the switch locations where a double tap has a different outcome, I've noticed she uses them. The latest chapter to this story comes over a motorized shade in the master bath. She was opposed to spending the money. (there's a backstory, but to keep it short the bath was remodeled over the summer the old solution doesn't work anymore, and for a manual shade someone would need to step into the tub each night and again each morning to open/close a manual shade) A few weeks ago I got her to agree to a color but didn't show her what I was ordering. The shade arrived last Friday afternoon and I promptly installed it... Two days later, as in this morning at breakfast, she said "You were right, we do need the automatic shade", Small victories. Ours was down for about 5 hours one day a few months ago when the SD card failed, I can't imagine 5 days.... It's amazing how dependent we become on it... I think I've got a spare part for everything on hand, I just wish backups could be automated because I tweek this or that and after awhile it ends up being more than this or that and I don't remember to backup often enough.

Correct. The ISY/PLM do not detect anything about Insteon devices that have not been added to the system.

1) you can go one room at a time. Insteon devices are detected automatically, the new won't know about the old until you add the device to the new. 2) someone else will know. I don't.

That's the cleanest. Factory reset the device and then add it to the new system. There are other methods that appear to save time, but in the end you'll spend time chasing gremlins, so no net time saved.

Are you thinking of ISY on Polisy as a replacement for your ISY-994? Be aware that while ISY on Polisy is a thing and works, there is not a migration path at this point. To switchover to using ISY on Polisy you will need to factory reset each device and add them one by one, then recreate all your programs. For small systems that's not out of the questions. For larger systems that could be a gigantic project.

The wifi connection can be used for a connections between the router and polisy, however the better connection between router and polisy is always wired.

but they aren't dual band either. I bought a couple USB PLMs.

As mentioned it could be the ISY power supply which there are alot of options from the wiki: "You can try any power supply that outputs anywhere between 5 volt and 30 volts,center positive, 2mm barrel connector" After that you might consider opening a ticket, support@universal-devices.com its possible the serial port of the ISY took a hit.