wrj0 Posted February 20, 2013 Posted February 20, 2013 Hi, For someone considering installation of Z-Wave deadbolts, what Z-Wave devices or starter kits are recommended? I have several Insteon devices integrated with an ISY994i/IR-Pro, but currently don't have any Z-Wave devices. What should be installed to support reliable operation of Z-Wave deadbolts to be managed by the ISY994? Advice from those who have already been down this path will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
oberkc Posted February 20, 2013 Posted February 20, 2013 Advice from those who have already been down this path will be greatly appreciated. The z-wave module for the -994 is barely out (or perhaps not even yet) in trial versions. I doubt there are many who have been down this path.
Xathros Posted February 20, 2013 Posted February 20, 2013 I am headed down this path this weekend with a Schlage lockset. I will let everyone know how it works out for me. -Xathros
arw01 Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 Would you mind taking it way out in the back yard and seeing how far away it works I've wanted some sort of keypad for the shop and a way to check and lock it from in the house..
arw01 Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 Now, those of you with Z-wave. Are the motion sensors more reliable in reporting than the Insteon ones? I am even considering buying a pet proof wired PIR and rigging it to a Raspberry Pi and using the rest interface to get the motion!
Xathros Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 I will attempt a reasonable distance test with the lockset once I get it. I don't have any zwave motion sensors yet and I'm not sure I will go that route anyway. Like you I am considering wired pet immune sensors instead. So far, I have an appliance module and a dimmer installed. My zwave dongle is in the basement near my network shelf at one end of the house just hanging from a nail in a ceiling beam. The dimmer is on the first floor maybe 25' away and works flawlessly. I have moved the appliance module from plug to plug on the first and second floors and it has not failed yet. Furthest is probably 45' with 2 sheetrocked walls and 2 hardwood floors between the module and the zwave dongle. At that location, the dimmer may have been acting as a repeater but I don't yet know how to tell. -Xathros
oberkc Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 So far, I have an appliance module and a dimmer installed Xathros, Up until now, I thought we were told that support for Z-wave devices would be limited (at least initially). It appeared to me that early emphasis was on locksets. Is it your perception so far that the Z-wave capability of the ISY is universally compatible with all (or most) z-wave devices, or only certain ones?
Xathros Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 oberkc- No. The announcement listed initial support for the few devices I have plus a few locksets. I certainly don't expect the alpha to support anything outside of what UDI says is there. -Xath EDIT: Actually, the Wiki mentioned it - not the announcement: http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index ... Wave_Alpha
oberkc Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 The announcement listed initial support for the few devices I have plus a few locksets. I certainly don't expect the alpha to support anything outside of what UDI says is there. I have never used Z-wave, but my impression was that compatibility of one device with another could sometimes vary by manufacturer. To see the wiki state support for "appliance modules" "thermostats", etc...flies counter to my perception that support would need to be more specific. If the Z-wave radio in the ISY is compatible with all thermostats, all slage locksets, all appliance modules, and all lamp dimmers, this would be HUGE.
Michel Kohanim Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 Hello oberkc, There are a lot of misconceptions about Z-Wave compatibility. For certain, each manufacturer can have additional/extended functionality for which we have to write code. For instance, association (i.e. linking devices to one another) is not mandatory. This said, all device command classes have base functionality that should be the same across manufacturers. As such, the base functionality for all dimmers, relay, thermostats will be functional in ISY. We have actually tested with 4 different thermostats and they all worked fine. All Schlages should work fine. Yale should be supported in the next firmware release and QuickSet to follow. With kind regards, Michel
jwelton2 Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Michael, will the ISY be able to recognize separate input codes from the Schlage lock, e.g. if my wife uses 1234 and I use 5678 will it be able to trigger separate scenes? I have an Insteon motion detector that works nicely with some outside lights when we come in after dark, but I would like certain house lights to come on when I enter the door code. I'd like to have different lights to come on between my wife and I. John
Xathros Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 I will attempt a reasonable distance test with the lockset once I get it. I don't have any zwave motion sensors yet and I'm not sure I will go that route anyway. Like you I am considering wired pet immune sensors instead. So far, I have an appliance module and a dimmer installed. My zwave dongle is in the basement near my network shelf at one end of the house just hanging from a nail in a ceiling beam. The dimmer is on the first floor maybe 25' away and works flawlessly. I have moved the appliance module from plug to plug on the first and second floors and it has not failed yet. Furthest is probably 45' with 2 sheetrocked walls and 2 hardwood floors between the module and the zwave dongle. At that location, the dimmer may have been acting as a repeater but I don't yet know how to tell. -Xathros Well, my Schlage lockset arrived Sat morning and very soon after, I discovered they shipped the Non Nexia version. 3 more days till the right one arrives... -Xathros
wrj0 Posted February 25, 2013 Author Posted February 25, 2013 Thanks, Xathros. Is the Nexia version required? I understood from this post that it was not.
G W Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Thanks, Xathros. Is the Nexia version required? I understood from this post that it was not. You need a lock that is Nexia enabled, but you DO NOT need the Nexia monthly service.
Xathros Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Thanks, Xathros. Is the Nexia version required? I understood from this post that it was not. You need a lock that is Nexia enabled, but you DO NOT need the Nexia monthly service. Correct. The lockset they sent me was of the non-Nexia variety. Very pretty keypad but no radio From what I've seen online, I think they look the same except for the model# and the Nexia info on the box. I'll know better in a few days. I suspect someone at the warehouse just picked the wrong item. -Xathros
Xathros Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Thanks, Xathros. Is the Nexia version required? I understood from this post that it was not. A Nexia/Zwave enabled lockset is required - the Nexia Home bridge and service is NOT I'm told. I don't know yet how much control the ISY will give me over the lockset. I can't wait to find out. Maybe Michel will chime in here. Can we: A) Manage User codes. Log which code was used when. C) Enable/Disable Vacation mode D) Lock/Unlock - This I'm pretty sure we can do. E) Log when the door is Locked/Unlocked manually by the inside lock knob. -Xathros
Chris Jahn Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 A) Manage User codes. Log which code was used when. C) Enable/Disable Vacation mode D) Lock/Unlock - This I'm pretty sure we can do. E) Log when the door is Locked/Unlocked manually by the inside lock knob. Here's a few answers: A) You currently must manually set up your user codes using the door lock itself Yes, you can detect which code was entered using programs, and therefore can do a variety of things based on that including logging (notifications), turning on lights, adjusting thermostat, arm/disarm Elk, etc. C) Not currently, but we will be adding more detailed support as we go along. D) For Schlage locks it actually "unsecures" the lock meaning someone still has to manually unlock it. For Yale, this will actually "throw the bolt" as they say, meaning the door will actually lock/unlock. E) Yes, but there would be no distinguishing whether the door is locked/unlocked manually from inside vs automatically, or by code, or by key outside, etc. If there is a way to detect this, then we would likely add this feature in a future build.
Xathros Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 A) Manage User codes. Log which code was used when. C) Enable/Disable Vacation mode D) Lock/Unlock - This I'm pretty sure we can do. E) Log when the door is Locked/Unlocked manually by the inside lock knob. Here's a few answers: A) You currently must manually set up your user codes using the door lock itself Yes, you can detect which code was entered using programs, and therefore can do a variety of things based on that including logging (notifications), turning on lights, adjusting thermostat, arm/disarm Elk, etc. C) Not currently, but we will be adding more detailed support as we go along. D) For Schlage locks it actually "unsecures" the lock meaning someone still has to manually unlock it. For Yale, this will actually "throw the bolt" as they say, meaning the door will actually lock/unlock. E) Yes, but there would be no distinguishing whether the door is locked/unlocked manually from inside vs automatically, or by code, or by key outside, etc. If there is a way to detect this, then we would likely add this feature in a future build. Thanks Chris. Good answers. Could you clarify on answer E. If the ISY can detect the state change from Secured to Unsecured and there was no code entered, wouldn't that indicate manual lock operation? Thanks again. -Xathros
Chris Jahn Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 Thanks Chris. Good answers. Could you clarify on answer E. If the ISY can detect the state change from Secured to Unsecured and there was no code entered, wouldn't that indicate manual lock operation? Thanks again. -Xathros Yes, but it could be unlocked using a key from outside rather than from manually unlocking it inside. There is other information that the lock sends to us that may make this easier for you to use, but we're still in the process of deciding how it gets presented in events etc.
arw01 Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 OH throwing the bolt. The wife would like that.. But I make my deadbolts pull the door TIGHT on the seal, so curious how much torque these little motors might have. Alan
IndyMike Posted February 25, 2013 Posted February 25, 2013 OH throwing the bolt. The wife would like that.. But I make my deadbolts pull the door TIGHT on the seal, so curious how much torque these little motors might have. Alan Alan, This is likely not achievable. Most of the motorized locks that I have seen are sized so that they stall the motor if they encounter an obstruction. In order "pull the door tight" a gear reduction drive would be required to multiply the motor torque. This toque would still require limiting (motor stall or a clutch) to prevent damage for a true interference condition (door partially shut). This same gearset would also drain the battery due to the increased operating time required to throw the bolt. The installation manuals for all of these locks refer to "alignment" and "smooth operation" during installation. The Kwickset deadbolt does advertise a "tapered" bolt to improve engagement. I do not know how effective this is in practice. If you have a Metal door: You could replace your compression seals with magnetic seals (lock side and top). This will pull your door shut for you allow allow for minimal interference on the deadbolt. If you have a Wood door: 1) Adjust your handset to "hold the door tight" and allow the deadbolt to align properly. Your family members may not like having to "push" the door closed. 2) Consider using a Zwave locking handset + the Schlage Zwave non-motorized deadbolt (expensive). This would allow you to remote lock the handset and still use the Schlage deadbolt to pull the door tight against the seals. Question: Do you really need to force the deadbolt to seal the door? Are you sure that your seals aren't worn out?
arw01 Posted February 26, 2013 Posted February 26, 2013 Thanks IndyMike. I had not considered refrigerator type seals, which would block out the air better. Ever since the doors went in, there was always a light gap someplace on the seal, so when I drilled my deadbolt holes and used the little cups I offset them about 1/4" to bring the door up tight. I also use the large steel strike plates that are 18" or so tall and put a LOT of big *** screws into the reinforced jam. Short of putting a steel plate along the inside of the door jam edge, it's as strong as I can make it to kickin. I had considered tapering the deadbolt myself, but the magnetic seals may do the ticket. I have one door I need to cut loose and reset for height after a hardwood floor made it impossible to keep a rug where the dogs go in and out. May look at that project soon.
marvel Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 Hi folks, I'm bumping this thread in hopes of getting a status update. I'm preparing to buy some Z-Wave locks now and need to know which one(s) are likely to be supported and when. I have a 99i, but will upgrade to the 994i for door lock support once the Z-Wave module is released. Couple of questions, 1. Yale or Kwikset? I need motorized locking functionality. Curious which lock is better and/or more likely to be supported when the Z-Wave module becomes available. 2. Any ETA on the module? Thank you!
Michel Kohanim Posted May 8, 2013 Posted May 8, 2013 marvel, We'll eventually support all of them but I really cannot tell you which one to choose. Currently ETA is latter part of June . With kind regards, Michel
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