Why No Great End-User Interface?

[ccclapp]

Hi

 

I know for me, and suspect for many, in looking at ISY a significant limitation is the lack of a great end-user interface. Apps like Mobilinc and possibly the newly developing Hone Automation Dashboard give hope. I am just wondering why there is not a robust, customizable and multifaceted whole-house automation interface with a great end user experience? Such an interface would include a) lights, doors, HVAC, alarm, etc; Multi zone AV, c) Energy monitoring/reporting aggregating both meter/panel monitoring and device monitoring, etc.

 

Not that its perfect, but HSTouch for homeseer is a reasonable example. Ideally ISY's would be somewhat more robust/complete out-of-the-box, but still allow full customization. iRule and Roomie are good examples, but be more ISY-centric and allow the full breadth of HA users are creating.

 

I am not criticizing and am by no means an expert, I am just asking/hoping. I would think such a complementary offering would significantly broaden the market.

 

Any thoughts?

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi ccclapp,

 

Very simple: resources and where to apply those resources to. We have opted for functionality.

 

With kind regards,

[ccclapp]

Hi Michel

 

Yes, I understand. I am just wishing we could have our cake and eat it too.

 

Thanks

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello ccclapp,

 

Thanks so very much for the understanding.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[NHWA]

I just have to say I really find myself thinking the same thing often about the interface. I'll start off by saying UDI has a great product and in a day and age where support is not existent really set's itself apart from other companies with a level of help that is simply unparalleled. I invested heavily in an insteon (40+ switches), Elk M1, etc rather than bringing in a company like control4 or crestron in because I like tweaking my systems as many here do to meet my exacting needs which change--and keep the wife happy.

 

The only thing that I think keeps back friends I know from such a venture and my only regret currently is the lack of a clean interface like control4 has. I understand the issue with applying resources, and I don't know if it is feasible to have a 3rd party create a more robust app/interface (we have mobilinc but it lacks android dedication) but I think that would make the total package that much more appealing to that many more people.

 

I can control my lighting with mobilinc, my cameras with the dahua apps or ip camviewer, my elk m1 with another app, etc. I would love an app that had a clean interface with security, lighting, automation, cctv, and audio all in one. Something that would be easy to program and put together to give a feel like control4/crestron. Although this is a small niche market, most use HAI or ELK for security, the isy for lighting, russound or htd for audio, and programs like ipcamviewer already have figured out how to view cctv cameras. The similarity of source items should make creating such an interface possible.

 

I have looked at commandfusion, irule, etc but still haven't found that holy grail of interfaces. Again, I understand resources and a small market, but I do wonder if a clean interface product could exist and be profitable. Many of us have universal remotes that are quite pricey. For the right app, I would pay a few hundred dollars. It would after all complete my system.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi NHWA,

 

I totally agree with your thought process. There does need to be a cleaner UI that merges all devices into a cohesive user experience.

 

As far as your question, we have put ISY integration at the forefront of all our development activity and was hoping that there would be an app that does precisely what you say. Alas, here we are!

 

Perhaps a Kickstarter project by a 3rd party such as MobiLinc?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Jimbo.Automates]

I could not agree more. I have considered looking at other hardware just because I want a better interface on Android, but I love to many things about the ISY to switch. Mobilinc is okay on Android but could be a lot better. I would donate to a kickstarter project. I already pay for the mobilinc subscription even though I don't really need it, but will be canceling it this year if we don't see a new version that actually looks and behaves more like an android app.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[Mike Ippolito]

I suppose this is as good as time as any to come out from behind the shadows and announce my presence. No hiding behind user names here (although I did steal an old employee's forum account under "Michael"), I'm Mike Ippolito, and I've joined the team as UDI's Chief Product Officer. I'm in week two with UDI, but not completely wet behind the ears, I've been working with Michel and Chris for over a year on a variety of projects and have finally joined the team full time.

 

The user experience (UX/UI) is dear to my heart and very near the top of my list. I agree there is much work to do and Michel and I have had many a discussion about how to implement it in an elegant and responsive way. We're evaluating many different technologies and models before we start building prototypes for you all to evaluate. The challenge is simplicity without sacrificing security. The ISY is unique as a (multipurpose stand-alone) platform that can be connected or disconnected from the 'cloud' and work autonomously. We want to make sure to respect those who want a closed network by implementing only client side technologies, while giving extended functionality to those that would like a seamless transition between intra- and internet connectivity.

 

Without spilling the beans too much there is change for the good coming in our product mix and I welcome all and any comments (on or off the forums) to get us to a place we can all be proud of. Feel free to reach out to me just use my forum username (at) universal-devices.com

 

Best,

 

Mike I

Universal Devices

 

 

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[ccclapp]

Welcome Mike!!

This is exciting

[ISYhbsh01]

Oh wow! Seems there are exciting times ahead for UDI & the UDI user base. Good luck!

 

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

[Steigs]

Welcome Mike!!

+1

 

This is exciting

+Eleventy

[Jimbo.Automates]

+1 for sure. Welcome Mike!

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[DennisC]

I totally agree and will be waiting for this development process. ISY is a great product but an improved interface is needed. The interface needs to be functional and easy to use.

 

I once had hopes of MobiLinc being that product but they don't seem to be interested in advancing their Android support. There have been many requests for adding Elk and Zwave support to MobiLinc and all we get is soon. In the meantime their Apple support keeps on rolling.

 

Welcome aboard!

 

Dennis

[gatchel]

This is where I have to disagree. I would much rather have an average interface and have better than average performance or capabilities. Something that looks good and does very little is useless.

 

Anyway, if UDI does migrate to a newer interface or "Skin" I would vote to have a classic view option.

 

Then again I mostly use the Admin console and not much else...

[Xathros]

Welcome aboard Mike! Glad to see the UDI team expanding.

 

-Xathros

[MWareman]

Welcome!

 

Allow me to regurgitate my wish list...

 

Personally, I'd like to see the admin console and dashboard completely go away, and all config manageable via the web ui. This should be coded using responsive techniques (viable for mobile and desktop browsers), modern (html5) and themeable (allow third party themes to be uploaded and selected).

 

Next request is multiple user accounts, with a permissions model in place (monitor/read only, can control, admin). Allow a user account/password to have one or more strong, random 'tokens' that can be passed into the REST API as a parameter so that devices that cannot basic with can also be functional.

 

Next, newer authentication possibilities with the network module. It really hurts currently to configure resources that talk to oAuth secured REST APIs. This should be a solvable problem, along with variable substitution in network resources.

 

A portal module to integrate with IFTTT (triggers and actions).

 

Finally, on a newer hardware design, a crypto chip to offload certificate operations to a DSP. Sometimes, SSL negotiation just seems to take FOREVER. Apps like MobiLinc will be much more responsive if the SSL negotiation were hardware assisted.

 

I know, not many wishes huh?

 

I know most of these are also scattered around this forum, and some may already be on the 5.x roadmap. I just wanted to get this out there, again.

 

Can you tell how much I *hate* Java..

 

Looking forward to GREAT things!

 

Michael.

[johnnyt]

I'm going to add my voice to a h/w platform that offers better performance. I need something that can handle peak demands, not average or low demands. In my experience, once you hit more than about 300-400 programs and you have more than a few external systems subscribed to ISY, stuff starts to happen that is, IMO, performance related. While you could argue better programming on the part of the user might solve some of the problems, more power would solve most of them more cheaply in most cases. ( from having worked 20 years in IT)

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[NHWA]

I would come back a bit to the concept of a end user interface. All of us computer geeks would love more features that allow us more control but really a clean end user interface that unifies all of the home automation that the ISY can control is a different issue. It's pretty much the opposite of the detailed programming ability. It's making a simple interface that allows any random person to pick up a tablet and control our systems--something that looks like those interfaces that HAI, crestron, control4, etc all offer.

 

I'm curious if there are others out there that would support a third party software project that did this for us? I think something like this would encourage more use outside of our tech savy base. Despite everything our systems can do, when someone comes to the house, all they see is whatever GUI is present and that can influence their decision of what to buy. The more people that purchase the systems we have the more likely that this becomes the go to setup and future development can then occur more rapidly.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello all,

 

First of all, thanks so very much for your invaluable feedback all of which have been captured and we are working through.

 

NHWA, I would very much like to see third party applications that provide a clean interface to ISY.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[ccclapp]

Hello all,

 

First of all, thanks so very much for your invaluable feedback all of which have been captured and we are working through.

 

NHWA, I would very much like to see third party applications that provide a clean interface to ISY.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

 

Michel

 

For the sake of discussion, what kind of $ would it take for you guys to quarterback this? You mentioned a kick-starter project. You might also be able to raise the funds from us directly. For discussion purposes, if 100 of us were up for contributing, what's the "nut" to get you going?

 

Food for thought...

[arw01]

The biggest hurdle from just crowd sourcing this, we certainly have enough of us that could code and design this from scratch, is we wanted to LEAVE JAVA behind forever. This brings up the biggest issue of device independence, how can we make the subscription to the ISY when the "environment" cannot handle the two way communications we need?

 

There is some hope that the extensions to Chrome and Mozilla would give us that two way conversation, or we have to have a third device in the middle to translate for us. Mobilinc Connect does that, but I'm looking for way faster response, and I had serious connection issues between my phone, mobilinc, wi fi, and 4g.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello ccclapp,

 

Thanks SO very much for the feedback. I will have to leave $s to Mike.

 

Hello arw01,

 

We will be implementing Websockets in 5.0.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[bpwwer]

Hi NHWA,

 

I think I kind of agree with you, but I'm not sure that we need something new to do this.

 

I would come back a bit to the concept of a end user interface. All of us computer geeks would love more features that allow us more control but really a clean end user interface that unifies all of the home automation that the ISY can control is a different issue. It's pretty much the opposite of the detailed programming ability. It's making a simple interface that allows any random person to pick up a tablet and control our systems--something that looks like those interfaces that HAI, crestron, control4, etc all offer.

 

Isn't this mostly available via the various home automation software packages, at the ones that have ISY support? Sure you have to configure the HA software and work out your touch screen designs but I don't think any system is going to automagically do that for you. With Creston & Control4 you're paying for someone to do that for you.

 

I know HomeSeer HSTouch works with the ISY since I developed that. Cinemar's MainLobby product has some ISY support (in addition to the plug-in I write for it years ago), the now defunct CodeCore Technologies Elve has support, I believe Charmed Quark CQC has support. There's probably a few others that I'm not aware of.

 

All of those will allow you to create a pretty tablet UI that interacts with the ISY. Now, I'm not sure anyone has created good UI's with these products that incorporate control via the ISY and made them available as a reference. GUI layout and design is not something I feel I'm good at.

 

I'm curious if there are others out there that would support a third party software project that did this for us? I think something like this would encourage more use outside of our tech savy base. Despite everything our systems can do, when someone comes to the house, all they see is whatever GUI is present and that can influence their decision of what to buy. The more people that purchase the systems we have the more likely that this becomes the go to setup and future development can then occur more rapidly.

 

I'm really curious to know what you think is missing given the above software packages? Would you like a package that does all the GUI elements that the above HA products do but only interface with the ISY? Are you thinking it should be a tablet based product that allows custom GUI design and interfaces only with the ISY?

 

Given that you mention high end automation products there's quite a spectrum that exist between what's available today via the ISY's web interface and those products.

 

I think I'd be more interested in seeing someone take an existing product that interfaces with the ISY and create a well designed GUI with it. Just seeing a well thought out and designed system can provide a lot of inspiration.

[Mike Ippolito]

As I've stated before we're looking at many different options. I'm busily working through the requirements and constraints of the project to come up with a good solution that blends our desire not to depend on cloud services with a user interface that works well for the masses. It's week 3 people.. give me some breathing room

 

As far as creating a "kickstarter-esqe" project, I'm not comfortable 'selling' something that will eventually be available to everyone. A good user interface is not something I want to charge a premium for. However, we are in the process of creating a "Friends and Family" round to help fund many of the requests you've all been asking for such as the enhanced user interface, more robust hardware, etc.

 

As this round is only available to accredited investors, I cannot discuss any details in an open forum, but please feel free to contact me via PM or directly at michael (at) universal-devices (com) for further details and an accredited investor package.

[ccclapp]

I know HomeSeer HSTouch works with the ISY since I developed that. Cinemar's MainLobby product has some ISY support (in addition to the plug-in I write for it years ago), the now defunct CodeCore Technologies Elve has support, I believe Charmed Quark CQC has support. There's probably a few others that I'm not aware of...

 

...I'm really curious to know what you think is missing given the above software packages? Would you like a package that does all the GUI elements that the above HA products do but only interface with the ISY? Are you thinking it should be a tablet based product that allows custom GUI design and interfaces only with the ISY?

 

 

These are great examples. Years ago I used MainLobby and Charmed Quirk. Recently I have investigated HS Touch. Correct me if I am wrong, aren't these GUIs primarily for other products, especially HS Touch, which have SOME ability to integrate with ISY, VS GUIs we can use to serve as the full ISY GUI?

 

For me, I could likely live with HS Touch if I could buy only that and use it to FULLY control ISY.. However, I believe I would need the full homeseer and then get at ISY via Homeseer. That is very roundabout.

 

Isn't this fundamentally the same with MainLobby?

 

Essentially with the examples you gave, we get to use the ISY "add-ons" which offer limited integration with ISY's full capabilities and need to do so via another system (would hate to have to learn Homeseer just to get at ISY).

 

Maybe I am mistaken.

 

Question: Did you actually develop HS Touch? If so, aren't you the man for this job

 

Thanks