Scyto Posted September 9, 2015 Posted September 9, 2015 Are you saying all ISY devices inc Insteon show up on the wink? Or just the ISY z-wave devices?
MWareman Posted September 9, 2015 Posted September 9, 2015 I have been playing around for a few weeks trying to determine the best way to link Wink and ISY99. After numerous false starts that had the unfortunate effect of erasing all of my devices on the Wink z-wave network (forcing me to exclude and then include 30 devices all through my house and yard), I finally found the right equation: 1) Click on Zwave/Receive (Learn Mode) on the ISY99 Admin Console 2) On Wink, open the hub, click on the three dots in the top right corner, choose your hub, click on Z-Wave Controls 3) Select "Inclusion Mode" on the Wink Hub 4) Sit back until it completes, and all your Z-Wave devices should show up on ISY99. 5) Open your "Lights + Power" on Wink, and, assuming you have not previously reordered your lights on Wink, you can rename all the devices on ISY99 in the order they appear on Wink My devices way out on the other side of my pool still show as unresponsive... even Wink has problems reliably turning these on and off, and I have been working on bridging the gap with devices and repeaters. In the end, you now have the advantages of Wink (including the phone app and Relay) with the programming power of ISY99, plus they show up on the HAD web pages... Which controller ends up 'primary' in this case? I assume you start with an empty zwave network on ISY and your devices on Wink.... So Wink should be primary. Does ISY get status updates from, say, locks? What happens when you add a new device... Does it show automatically on ISY? Or do you have to do a new 'Learn'?
Scyto Posted September 11, 2015 Posted September 11, 2015 I did this with a Vera Edge and at least for that the answers are 1) Vera ended up primary 2) yes ISY gets status updates, the zwave devices appear like normal in ISY 3) when you include new device on Vera it appears on ISY Given this is standard zwave functionality I would assume it to be same on wink.
ryanmead83 Posted September 12, 2015 Posted September 12, 2015 I can confirm this works as well with the directions above. It's pretty cool, the ISY shows all the Z-Wave devices on the Wink. Only weird thing is first device shows unresponsive, and it is ZW 001 Gateway, then ZW 007 Unresponsive Device is on there also but already disabled by the system. Other than that devices control just like you are using them native on the ISY. I've tested so far with light switches, lamp dimmers, plug in on/off switch, and thermostat and they all work so far. My Schlage door lock I didn't add yet because I have to get it replaced under warranty. It is only 9 months old and it shows its status as Locked 24/7 even when it isn't. so have had to go out the back door all the way around the house to get out since you can't lock it from the outside since it thinks it's locked! Also if it means much, was reading some of the older posts just now but have to say the Wink is pretty awesome I think, it's great for an easy to use basic system for remote control and basic automation. You just have to check the box of the device you are adding. If it says "Wink Hub Required" then that's GOOD, because that means that device connects to the radio in the Hub itself, so GE Quirky bulbs, Z-Wave lights, any ZigBee ones that are supported like I think Cree, etc. If it says "Wink Hub Not Required" then that means it is just acting as a bridge, like with Philips Hue or Chamberlain Garage door openers. In those cases they use their API and you log into your Hue account and so on and it works it all in the back ground. It works really well though, my Hue lights show up the same as any Z-Wave light, and control is pretty much instant of them or at least as fast as using the Hue app. I'm looking forward to trying some Lutron Caseta lights as they look pretty slick also and with their bridge they support HomeKit and Siri, but they connect right to the Hub as well and don't need their own bridge. Just a bit nervous because they are expensive and at least right now only Wink or their own bridge can control them so hate investing in something so restricting. Using Wink on the front end for the great easy UI, sweet control of locks (lets you add users right on it and even turn on notifications if that person uses the code, plus sends a reminder to delete them), and so on but with the ISY on the back end doing more complex programs is pretty sweet I think. That's really the one thing I do like about all the separate systems vs one. I have my Hue lights on timers every day sunset to sunrise, but that timer is in the Hue bridge itself, even though Wink can control them. Wink does other lamp timers etc. It's nice sometimes to split things up, especially basic things like lamp timers where you don't really need to ever see them in one place, but at least if one radio or system fails, your house isn't in total darkness while you're away.
ryanmead83 Posted September 12, 2015 Posted September 12, 2015 This is actually really cool, just wanted to add some more. I guess the ISY becomes a secondary controller, and isn't just working with the Wink. As a test I unplugged the Wink and the ISY still controls all Z-Wave devices itself, so that's pretty awesome since it's like adding redundancy. Can use Wink for the awesome mobile interface, as well as easily controlling Hue lights, or other brands/ZigBee devices, while having the most important ones be Z-Wave and let the ISY run programs and logic. I love this because I really love the Wink and I don't care that it needs the Internet to run, it's just for timers I get nervous. I don't like the idea of being on vacation and possibly having my Internet go down for 15 minutes right at sunset, preventing the lamps from coming on. As I did a test and if the Internet is down at a trigger, it doesn't "catch up" when it comes back online, so that lamp would always be off. This way I can use the ISY to do the timers, so it's all local. One thing I really love is that you can use both devices. I tried this before with Vera a year or two ago and I remember someone on here saying something about one way status and that's exactly what I had. Forget the way it worked, but if I adjusted a device on the ISY, the Vera wouldn't update, or something along those lines. With this set up they both update in real time. I'd recommend this just for the door locks alone (assuming they work properly still, have to test, but just because the Wink app for the locks is pretty good. Add/delete users from it and so on.
Scyto Posted September 12, 2015 Posted September 12, 2015 Thanks for posting your experiences! i have played with vera and smartthings to give my wife a friendly UI on here phone for basic stuff like doors locks etc - the vera apps are as cranky as their device (though i love the potential), I have the Vera and the the ISY blissfully working together (the vera can even control ISY scenes and devices with the combination of z-wave linking and the ISY plugin . So to stop rambling on my part and ask a question - do you think the wink apps provide that WAF for basic stuff? Do you think it is worth dropping $50 to play and see their apps? Alex (hmm I wonder if the wink, ISY and Vera call work together...)
larryllix Posted September 12, 2015 Posted September 12, 2015 Download the Wink app from the Play Store if you have an android sys, or I would be sure Apple would have a comparable one. Then go through the linking process to different devices. I never found one that didn't say press button on the other hub. This was last Christmas and maybe things have changed but the app is fully functional to browse the style of thing you are getting. I didn't want my ISY controlling a Hub that controls a Hub that controls the lighting. My two Christmas presents went back after Tech support walked me through the idiosyncrasies of disabling features on my mobile phone in order to update the firmware. Too bad, with their seven hardware protocol interfaces, direct comms couldn't be had with devices and only their WiFi was supported. I could have got rid of three other Hubs I currently use. If the full support for the hardware they implied ever becomes a reality I'll buy another one but not likely for the $44 they sold for once it become more useful.
ryanmead83 Posted September 12, 2015 Posted September 12, 2015 There's a Wink app for iPhone, it's actually better than Android as I have both. Had Galaxy S6 sold it last week and got the iPhone again. They are similar but it's more polished on the iPhone, like when naming new devices, it automatically makes the first letter of each word a capital, where android just stays lower case. Small things like that but otherwise similar. You can easily tell which devices need the hub or not though, just look at the specs like I mentioned, if it says it needs the Hub, then that's good it means it connects to it. If it says no hub needed, then that's where it uses your account for Hue and so on. I've attached 2 images here, not the best just what I found online but shows what they look like. I'm with Larry though in that I don't really want tons of bridges, so I think it's better to get the devices that connect directly to it vs the ones that use accounts. Either way though my Hue lights work perfectly, you'd have no idea they are running through the Hue bridge and not the Wink, they work just as good as anything else, and can change colours and everything. If you download the app you can play with it but it's much better than Vera and definitely passes that WAF. You can even make user accounts, so for example, you can have an account for her so that on her phone it ONLY shows the door lock just to give an idea. What I love is how easy it is to manipulate your doors, like you can add users, remove them, be notified when one of those codes are used and so on. I'll have my lock tomorrow night and can send screenshots, or let me know if you want me to post any other screenshots. I can try to upload some of it later, my phone is just dead right now. My real only downside is having to use the Internet to control it. I'm fine with that but like I said it makes me a little nervous that my Internet could go down and no lamp timers work, but being connected to the ISY solves that! Also the wink is WIFI only! There's no ethernet, however it's really handy then as you can stick it anywhere you want, or bring it next to the device you're trying to add etc. Lastly, the one thing that impressed me with the Wink is that even though they try to make it easy to use, you still have all your normal Z-Wave commands, like exclude, make primary controller, and so on. It's pretty sweet though, when you go to add a device you pick it, and it shows videos of THAT actual device and how to add it. Then after it shows the image and details based on that one. So if I click my living room lamp, it shows the Leviton logo at the top and what not. Just a nicer touch I find. Same with my Schlage door lock, I attached a screenshot here not of mine just from online, but you can see how polished it is, showing the logos and everything for those 2 locks. (Those are 2 locks, I thought when I first saw that that the top was to unlock and bottom to lock, but no you only have 1 if you have 1 lock, the screenshot shows 2 locks.) Larry just to add it sounds like you just had bad luck in that most your devices didn't use the Hub directly as most do. Any Z-Wave devices use the hub directly, as well as Lutron Caseta which is amazing btw, it connects direct to the Hub with no bridge needed, same with Cree connected bulbs, GE Quirky ones. Only ones I've seen needing an account/other bridge is Hue, Connected by TCP, Chamberlain Garage door openers, Honeywell Wifi thermostat and a few others that I don't use. I have my z-Wave thermostat working fine (2Gig one, not supported by them they said but works perfect), Schlage door lock, bunch of Z-Wave switches and lamp modules. If you want to find out also, just use the free app and try to add a product. It will show a little video/photos detailing how. If it says something about "Make sure the Hub is ready then click next to put the hub in pairing mode" or whatever it is, then you know it connects directly. If you try to add Hue for example, it instead says to please log into your Hue account, then press the button on the bridge. Only issue I had was when I got it it WOULD NOT update at all. Kept saying update required, would do it, then say update required. Had to get them to push it out to me, then put the Hub in my back yard far away from the Wifi as it can't be too close to your router when doing an update for some reason as if the signal is too strong it won't work on one version, really weird. They helped me over Twitter though and were really fast. I really love the Relay as well and would love to get it, but waiting for local control first as it seems silly to me to have a wall mounted touch screen but when you use it, it's sending the command over the Internet instead of to the Wink hub directly sitting 10 feet away from it. It makes lights take 2-3 seconds on average to turn on or off when you press them, so I can't see the Wink being ideal for motion sensors etc, but either way I think it's a great product and for $50 you can't go wrong. And lastly, sorry for the long post haha, Alex I feel you on Vera. It's such a pisser because it should be so awesome. There's hundreds of plugins and it SHOULD be the de facto Z-Wave controller, but man the software is garbage, then they go and do UI7 and somehow manage to make it even worse!
ryanmead83 Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 Just one observation to make as I might have spoke too soon on having Wink primary. I'm at my condo now and when I opened the Wink app last night to check the status of my house (when lights were 100% on as I set them in the ISY on timers), the Wink app showed them all as off. So seems like when I'd do something on ISY, Wink wouldn't update. However it also showed my Hue lights as off when they were in fact on as well. So not sure if it's just the app acting up (as this morning now it shows ALL Hue lights as on when none are!), or if having Wink as primary creates issues. I had asked their support people and there's no way to update the status or to query something which is my only negative. So for example you can even unplug a lamp module, and the Wink app lets you turn it on and off like normal and makes no indication that it's not even plugged in, other than usually after a minute or so it turns back off in the app. I might try making Wink the secondary controller when I get home though because even if that's true, that a secondary controller won't force a primary to update and reflect the changes, at least ISY has a program to query Z-Wave every few minutes. This seems to be what happened when I tried this with Vera like I mentioned above, where when I linked Vera and ISY (as controllers, not using the ISY plugin for Vera), one device would always update and show updates, but if you changed something on the other, then the first device wouldn't know about it.
Michel Kohanim Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 Hi ryanmead83, Not having accurate status might not be Wink related. Unlike INSTEON which reports the status of devices regardless of how they were turned on, Z-Wave depends on Manufacturers to decide about this feature (Lutron patent). With kind regards, Michel
ryanmead83 Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 Thanks Michael, that I definitely know. Problem with the Wink app is that at least with ISY etc you can force it to query a device. On Wink there's no way to tell if a device is responding or not or force it to query. I asked their support and they said try to force quit the app and restart it. Doesn't seem to do anything, there's no spinning gear or whatever to show updating status so never really can tell. Even right now it still shows the Hue lights are on when they aren't or at least shouldn't be. Going to try making Wink secondary and ISY primary and see how that works. Mostly just using Wink for redundancy so not a huge issue.
ryanmead83 Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 Quick update, I just put the ISY in learn mode and picked shift controller on the Wink to make ISY primary. Is there any way to confirm it is? I noticed now when I turn a light on on the ISY, the Wink app updates instantly. However I messed up as I forgot you have to name them in both places. So originally I had a Z-Wave dimmer as "Living Room Lamp" but then moved that to "Basement Lamp" and changed the living room to a LampLinc. So last night when I'd turn the lamp on on the ISY and it wouldn't update on the Wink app, that might actually be the reason for it, since I renamed it to Living Room on the ISY but not the Wink, so that would explain why there was no update. However things like the front porch light have always been that way, and the wink app wouldn't update to show them. So seems like having Wink as secondary is the more ideal way.
Scyto Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 --offtopic-- Ryan, cool i might get one just to play and see if i can include it on the vera. I have to say with the a)the latest firmware b)AltUI plugin the Vera is actually starting to perform quite well (their mobile app still sucks). I have a modified version of the ISY plugin that only syncs insteon and NOT zwave. I setup Vera as primary because it has more options for the locks than the ISY does (along with multistream) So i now have both zwave and insteon inetgrated on both devices FWIW To be honest I keep going because this view is too much fun
ryanmead83 Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 Awesome that looks cool! I actually am going to return the Wink I think only because I don't have a huge need for it. Most of my devices are just timers and so on so having a mobile app isn't as big of a deal for me. So not sure yet but thinking I can better spend that elsewhere, so will see!
Silversop Posted January 29, 2016 Posted January 29, 2016 I have looked and looked for a definitive answer if Wink Hub is compatible/able to be controlled /connected to the ISY controller. Maybe I am just confused on connecting devices that work with the Wink to the ISY rather than using the ISY directly. Regards, S
mwester Posted January 30, 2016 Posted January 30, 2016 I have looked and looked for a definitive answer if Wink Hub is compatible/able to be controlled /connected to the ISY controller. Maybe I am just confused on connecting devices that work with the Wink to the ISY rather than using the ISY directly. Regards, S Given the nature of many of the ISY users, there IS no definitive answer -- if I told you that the Wink hub is DEFINITELY NOT compatible with the ISY, then somebody here would take that as a challenge, and post not just one but two or three different ways (one of which will probably involve a vacuum cleaner, the neighbor's cat, several spark plugs, and an old CB radio, in the finest of Rube Goldberg tradition )! So, let me just state that there is NO simple, or easy, way to integrate the Wink hub into the ISY. Yet. Perhaps someone will do so with some of the neat new features coming with the ISY 5.0 firmware... But, it doesn't work now.
Silversop Posted January 30, 2016 Posted January 30, 2016 Given the nature of many of the ISY users, there IS no definitive answer -- if I told you that the Wink hub is DEFINITELY NOT compatible with the ISY, then somebody here would take that as a challenge, and post not just one but two or three different ways (one of which will probably involve a vacuum cleaner, the neighbor's cat, several spark plugs, and an old CB radio, in the finest of Rube Goldberg tradition )! So, let me just state that there is NO simple, or easy, way to integrate the Wink hub into the ISY. Yet. Perhaps someone will do so with some of the neat new features coming with the ISY 5.0 firmware... But, it doesn't work now. Thank You Regards, S
Tominnh Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 Was just told today by ISY Tech Support that the WINK hub is not supported. Only HA Zigbee not LL Zigbee. When asked what hubs it would support I got no reply. What's the deal? I have the WINK hub and am not able to connect it because I need the PAN ID Etc Etc Etc. No one has been able to assist. Advise? Does the Smartthings hub work? Thank you
Tominnh Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 Quick update, I just put the ISY in learn mode and picked shift controller on the Wink to make ISY primary. Is there any way to confirm it is? I noticed now when I turn a light on on the ISY, the Wink app updates instantly. However I messed up as I forgot you have to name them in both places. So originally I had a Z-Wave dimmer as "Living Room Lamp" but then moved that to "Basement Lamp" and changed the living room to a LampLinc. So last night when I'd turn the lamp on on the ISY and it wouldn't update on the Wink app, that might actually be the reason for it, since I renamed it to Living Room on the ISY but not the Wink, so that would explain why there was no update. However things like the front porch light have always been that way, and the wink app wouldn't update to show them. So seems like having Wink as secondary is the more ideal way. Ryan, How did you put the ISY in Learn mode? I was told yesterday by ISY support that Wink is not compatible.. Please advise... Thank you!!!!!
Tominnh Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 Just one observation to make as I might have spoke too soon on having Wink primary. I'm at my condo now and when I opened the Wink app last night to check the status of my house (when lights were 100% on as I set them in the ISY on timers), the Wink app showed them all as off. So seems like when I'd do something on ISY, Wink wouldn't update. However it also showed my Hue lights as off when they were in fact on as well. So not sure if it's just the app acting up (as this morning now it shows ALL Hue lights as on when none are!), or if having Wink as primary creates issues. I had asked their support people and there's no way to update the status or to query something which is my only negative. So for example you can even unplug a lamp module, and the Wink app lets you turn it on and off like normal and makes no indication that it's not even plugged in, other than usually after a minute or so it turns back off in the app. I might try making Wink the secondary controller when I get home though because even if that's true, that a secondary controller won't force a primary to update and reflect the changes, at least ISY has a program to query Z-Wave every few minutes. This seems to be what happened when I tried this with Vera like I mentioned above, where when I linked Vera and ISY (as controllers, not using the ISY plugin for Vera), one device would always update and show updates, but if you changed something on the other, then the first device wouldn't know about it. Wink is Zigbee not z-wave correct...?
larryllix Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 Wink is Zigbee not z-wave correct...? If the current Wink Hub is anything like the original one (I had two), it professed to have seven different hardware interfaces inside, and could support anything, and everything made, except for one small detail... The company never produced any software to support any of their hardware interfaces and every driver they produced was to only talk to another hub via WiFi. This was evidenced by simply loading their app and running the smart little connect animation demos, that always started with ..... "press the linking button on the top of the XYZ hub" Wink support always reported that direct control would be coming later. I never saw any, before they folded, and were bought by some other company. I suspect they ran into licencing issues. Mine went back for refunds. It sure would be nice if one hub could actually do it all but in this present day world the companies are so hell bent on cornering their piece of the market it will never happen.
Michel Kohanim Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 Hi Tominnh, Wink ZigBee uses HA profile and ISY does not support HA profile. Did anyone tell you otherwise? With kind regards, Michel
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