Dual Band

[Scottmichaelj]

I am not having communication issues but wanted to get opinions and see if it would be wise to replace all my Switchlinc 2476D Dimmers with dual band versions?

 

My setup: In any room with only 1 switch I have a 2477D installed. For rooms where there is a dual gang box or larger I made sure that at least one device/switch is a Dual Band. I have Dual Band door sensors installed and in other areas have Dual Band LampLincs, KPLs and Switchlincs. So my Dual Band coverage is at least one or more per room but still half of the switches installed arent Dual Band.

 

You guys think it would it make sense to rip them out and replace them? Or since it aint broke dont touch it? Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

[oberkc]

I would keep it as is. I still have many powerline-only devices. These things are expensive enough that I prefer not replacing things that aren't broken.

[paulbates]

I only add it when pl doesn't work. Like oberkc indicated, don't fix working things.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Teken]

I would keep it as is. I still have many powerline-only devices. These things are expensive enough that I prefer not replacing things that aren't broken.

 

I agree, if money is no object and not of concern go ahead and replace what ever you want to. Ignoring some of the financial aspects for a moment the benefit of upgrading is getting the latest hardware revisions which offer fix's to past issues.

 

Some of the newer switch lincs / dimmers are built with more robust power supplies which operate from 100-277 VAC. Newer units now actually indicate surge resistance of 500 VAC which was never seen before.

 

Some models now offer dual LED which indicate same phase / opposite phase better when the 4 tap beacon test is initiated. Other hardwired devices also include new firmware which allows smarthops, error on blink, and message clean up.

 

All of those combined and offering dual band are features that are hard to ignore. Another aspect is some of the items have actually gone down in energy consumption and if you're like me that is a true bonus and could sway me to make a change out. 

[Scottmichaelj]

Thanks for the input guys. However as Teken points out firmware and improvements are why I am even contemplating making the switch.

 

Teken have you seen any better or worse performance with LEDs? I have philips in my lamps, Cree all in ones for my recessed lights and lighting science for my spotlights in niches. I personally have no issues with either the newer or older stuff. Just wondering. Trying to get you to push me over the edge. The dont touch something that aint broke is a saying for a reason.

 

Money isnt a factor. Figure I might be able to sell them on ebay for $30-35 each? Will help recoup some costs.

[stusviews]

You probably won't see much of a communication improvement by adding a dual-band device to a box that already has a dual-band device. OTOH, I often fix things that ain't broken. It's called hacking. Too bad the term took on a negative meaning. I also update to take advantage of new features--not because they're there, but because I want that particular feature.

 

BTW, powerline only device sell on eBay for about $20-$25.

 

IMO, as long as you're on the edge, you may as well jump

[Teken]

Thanks for the input guys. However as Teken points out firmware and improvements are why I am even contemplating making the switch.

 

Teken have you seen any better or worse performance with LEDs? I have philips in my lamps, Cree all in ones for my recessed lights and lighting science for my spotlights in niches. I personally have no issues with either the newer or older stuff. Just wondering. Trying to get you to push me over the edge. The dont touch something that aint broke is a saying for a reason.

 

Money isnt a factor. Figure I might be able to sell them on ebay for $30-35 each? Will help recoup some costs.

If this was me and ignoring financials for a moment. I would replace the oldest devices in the home or where areas that I felt could benefit from dual band.

 

As Stu indicated two dual band devices side by side won't gain you much unless on the opposite electrical leg of the supply line.

 

For me having the higher power handling, wider voltage, surge suppression, and lower energy consumption are the physical elements that sway me.

 

Next would be the dual LED simply from a diagnostic perspective. It should be noted many of the firmware elements I indicated are not in all switches / KPL.

 

With respect to LED lights if they work now they will operate just fine with the newer hardware. Keeping in mind it doesn't mean you can use any LED light and expect it to operate or not cause noise issues.

 

Trial and error is still important to do in this area. The listed brands you indicated are some of the best the market has to offer so believe you're in good company.

 

Lastly, regardless of finances I would probably wait for another SH sale. Nothing beats knowing you have top of the line gear at a great price! ️

 

I know people who won the lotto and even with tens of millions of dollars available they still live like value matters.

 

In my humble opinion it does whether you're rich or come from a modest income home.

 

 

Ideals are peaceful - History is violent

[larryllix]

Thanks for the input guys. However as Teken points out firmware and improvements are why I am even contemplating making the switch.

 

Teken have you seen any better or worse performance with LEDs? I have philips in my lamps, Cree all in ones for my recessed lights and lighting science for my spotlights in niches. I personally have no issues with either the newer or older stuff. Just wondering. Trying to get you to push me over the edge. The dont touch something that aint broke is a saying for a reason.

 

Money isnt a factor. Figure I might be able to sell them on ebay for $30-35 each? Will help recoup some costs.

The best deal would be to rip them all out and put them in a shipping box.

 

I will PM you my address for the bad ones to be sent to for further evaluation and disposal to be sure you are doing the right thing.

 

Add a few more dual band but if you are not having comm problem. Why bother spending the money and the time? They don't work any faster or better.

 

My 9  MS units are not dual band. My 2 thermostats are not dual band. My X10 units are not dual band (shorter range though). My bedroom units are dual-band but can't get reliable powerline comms through the arc-fault breakers. In a year or more with 40-50 units I have only had maybe 4-5 failures due to comms as far as I can tell. My dual phase inverters were running feeding those circuits.

[Teken]

The best deal would be to rip them all out and put them in a shipping box.

 

I will PM you my address for the bad one to be sent to for further evaluation and disposal to be sure you are doing the right thing.

 

Add a few more dual band but if you are not having comm problem. Why bother spending the money and the time? They don't work any faster or better.

 

My 9 MS units are not dual band. My 2 thermostats are not dual band. My X10 units are not dual band (shorter range though). My bedroom units are dual-band but can't get reliable powerline comms through the arc-fault breakers. In a year or more with 40-50 units I have only had maybe 4-5 failures due to comms as far as I can tell.

It should be noted that if his devices are pre i2CS they will indeed be faster to write and communicate to a controller / PLM.

 

 

Ideals are peaceful - History is violent

[oberkc]

I think there are some good points made here, but if you interest, as stated in your original post, is limited to improved communications, then I would still not swap out. If, however, some of the improved features and compatibility with certain loads is important to you, then I might find greater justification for a change.

[Scottmichaelj]

It should be noted that if his devices are pre i2CS they will indeed be faster to write and communicate to a controller / PLM.

 

 

Ideals are peaceful - History is violent

How would I find out if they are pre-i2CS or not? I believe I installed these back in 2006/2007 after just moving into my last home. Is there a benefit/negative to i2CS? They show as 2876D with beeper v.38

 

With my new home I had surge protector and hardwire phase coupler installed right next to my panel. I then made sure to run a Cat6 right to the panel as well and made sure the PLM was isolated on its own circuit. I now have filters on as much as I can so communication is pretty smooth.

 

So much peer pressure in the thread. Glad I wasnt in high school with you guys! Jump off the ledge, send me the devices for "testing", etc Seriously though I do appreciate the back and forth ideas/thoughts.

[Teken]

As I recall anything pre 2008 was not i2CS. On a tangent if we were at school oh ya I would tell you to jump! ️

 

M-hahahaha.

 

 

Ideals are peaceful - History is violent

[Brian H]

Teken

March 2012 was I2CS starting to be incorporated in new firmware and modules.

 

You maybe thinking of when I2 was added. I could not find a date for I2 being added.

[IndyMike]

I have a number of the 2876S's from the same time frame.  I have not had any issues with these and have no plans to replace mine.

 

 

Pro's/Con's:

1. Icon version of the switches with a single amber lamp.  You will not be able to match the lamp color with new devices.
2. You cannot dim the led on the Icon units.  Newer units allow you to adjust the led brightness.
3. Units are I2 capable, but not I2CS.  They do have the newer power supply design (switching supply).
4. Icon version uses a smaller link table than the switchlinc version.  Cannot be linked to as many devices (can't remember the limit).

 

The one real annoyance with these switches is the fact that you must communicate with them using I1 mode.  Attempting to read/write the devices using I2 mode results in an error.

 

IM

[Teken]

Teken

March 2012 was I2CS starting to be incorporated in new firmware and modules.

 

You maybe thinking of when I2 was added. I could not find a date for I2 being added.

Brian H,

 

As always I believe you're correct. I should have recalled this because I was looking at the diagnostic keypad and the manual indicated some information about this.

 

I know memory isn't as clear given the passage of time. But do recall a few people indicating i2CS in late 2011. Which is no surprise since Smartlabs likes to push out updates with out ever alerting the general public!

 

I myself have lots of i2 / i1 devices in the home along with other installs I helped on. Each of them operate just fine.

 

Regardless of the tech in place it does not supersede the need to identify and resolve noise makers / signal suckers in the home.

 

 

Ideals are peaceful - History is violent

[hart2hart]

I started installing insteon in 2009. Upgrading switches with dual-band versions had only small impact on reliability. However, replacing Lamplinc and appliancelinc with dual band made tremendous difference during last couple years.

 

Supplementing access points with signalincs was single best improvement for wire only devices I ever made. I know some don't like them but I wouldn't install without them.

[Brian H]

There may have been some late 2011 I2CS modules floating around.

I know Smartlabs had a Developers I2CS Modules Kit they graciously let us BUY at a lower than retail cost.

[Scottmichaelj]

FWIW I just jumped off the ledge. The extended commands, age of devices and the new features were enough to justify the costs. Time to eBay my switches! I was on the fence but its probably time.

[giesen]

FWIW I just jumped off the ledge. The extended commands, age of devices and the new features were enough to justify the costs. Time to eBay my switches! I was on the fence but its probably time.

How many do you have? I might be able to take them off your hand at a reasonable price...

[paulbates]

I've sold some things here in coffee shop. There are some DB that I'm actually thinking of converting back to SB, if any of these are.

 

Paul

[Scottmichaelj]

I have:

 

USED:

3 - 2476S Switchlinc Relays v.2C

2 - 2476DH Switchlinc Dimmers 1000W v.38

 

NEW:

6 - 2635-232 On/Off Modules

 

PM me if interested with price/quantity.

 

Edited quantities 08/29/15 (Almost everything is sold)

[Teken]

I have:

 

USED:

8 - 2476D Switchlinc Dimmers v.38

3 - 2476ST Switchlinc Relays v.2C

2 - 2476DH Switchlinc Dimmers 1000W v.38

1 - 2486D KeypadLinc 6-Button v.39 (I think this can be changed to an 8-Button since its the older version)

 

NEW:

6 - 2635-232 On/Off Modules

 

PM me if interested with quantity and price your willing to pay.

 

Doh, no KPL Timers in that lot! 

[Xathros]

Just a word of caution from my personal experience with upgrading to dual band devices...

 

Like many others here I started to upgrading to dual band mostly to get newer features and figured it would have the side benefit of improving my overall comms.  It did improve comms in some cases.  In other cases, it seemed to make things worse and most notably, I frequently see multiple responses to single RF events like pressing a button on a remotelinc or triggering a motion sensor.  I believe this is due to the RF signal being received by multiple dual band devices and there being no or insufficient  duplicate message filtering built into the protocol.  Most annoying is where I use a single RL2 button and have a program perform a toggle on/off for a light or to cycle thru the speeds on a fanlinc. Multiple responses show up worst there.

 

Overall, I'm still pretty happy with the outcome after upgrading but these are things that should be considered.

 

Hope this helps.

 

-Xathros

[Scottmichaelj]

So I haven swapped out everything BUT I have noticed a slight improvement on performance, speed of programming and my hops left have strangely "decreased" - for example one of the old 2476D switches in the same spot had shown Hops Left=0 - Now its 2 - two is better right? Still have more to do but so far so good.

[LeeG]

Hops Left=2 is much better than Hops Left=0 for the same event.