Interface with Amazon Echo?

[Xathros]

Have you logged into the portal and connected it to your Amazon account?

 

-Xathros

[bmercier]

I'm obviously behind most of you in getting Echo to work with ISY.  Got portal setup (I think), but no matter what I ask Alexa to do, ie; "refresh devices",  I get a message back from Alexa, "ISY access is pending approval in admin console."

Am I doing something wrong?  How do I get admin console approval?

Thanks for any help and direction

 

You need to go to the admin console, in configuration/portals. There, you need to click a button to give approval.

 

The reason for this is that anyone who knows your uuid could enter it in it's portal account. But authorization has to be given at the admin console before it can actually be used.

 

Benoit.

[bmercier]

Have you logged into the portal and connected it to your Amazon account?

 

-Xathros

 

Hello Xathros,

 

If you are referring to the the Amazon account link in "My profile" - it's is not required to use the Alexa skill.

 

Alexa skill account linking is done when you enable the skill. It prompts you for a portal account, then links the accouts.

 

The reason for the Amazon account link in "My Profile" is for the Connected Home only. The will be useful only when the connected home ISY adapter will become available.

 

I know it can be confusing. Connected home (lighting API) and Alexa skill uses 2 totally different ways to link accounts.

 

Benoit.

[imagamejunky]

Michel. Have you heard anything from Amazon in regards to ISY/Connected Home integration? Are we going to get a nice xmas gift this year?

I keep hoping..

Junky

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Junky,

 

We have not heard back yet.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Morris Hansen]

Will all the thermostat skills work with an Elk based thermostat?

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Morris,

 

Not yet but we will work on them once we figure out how to address #2 below. The main issues are:

1. Thermostats in ELK are not Thermostats in ISY and have different APIs

2.  ELK is a security system and opening up those APIs to Alexa has major security ramifications (i.e. Alexa, ask izzy to disarm)

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Morris Hansen]

That makes sense.  I guess I can use IFTTT to do this for now.  Though even having any home automation opens up that security issue.  An insteon device could be opening up or unlocking doors today so it probably is a little false sense of comfort to just lump all security system into high risk.  I use Elk for everything but security.  Don't think I have ever armed the system.  I use it for sensing doors, windows and controlling devices such as sprinklers, etc.  I had it before Insteon and didn't think it was worth replacing.

 

Would be interesting if for certain commands you could have the Echo prompt for some type of passcode, passphrase, etc. and that enables certain features.  Part of the 2way dialog

 

Thanks,

[brentlh64]

I hope the Echo "Connected Home" group approves the "ISY/Connected Home integration" soon, as I believe it would bring more people interested in HA to the ISY device.  Not being on the list will cause more people to choose one of the other currently supported devices.  I am just starting on modern HA and currently just have basic needs like ON/OFF/DIM so it will meet my needs until I gain more knowledge, and keep the basic commands simpler.  I work in IT, so I spent a lot of time researching the protocols and devices, and found that Insteon and Z-wave, seemed to be getting adopted well.  I have X-10, and IR from before, so the ISY994i/ZW IR Pro sounded like my best bet.  The Insteon Hub II sounded OK, but I know I would have quickly out grow it, and have not been impressed by their software solutions.  They seem buggy and they still have a Beta web based control solution that has not changed in years, and never added configuration or fixed any issues that I experienced even though their forums indicted they knew about the problems.

 

Thanks for you products and I am wishing UDI much success with their products in the coming years,

 

Brent

[barrygordon]

I suspect that after all the Xmas presents are received there will be a lot more Echo's in use and there could possibly be a spike in ISY sales (UDI Hint: You need to advertise!).  With a good tutorial on using the ISY with Insteon it good be moved out of the DIY HA enthusiast world. It is not that difficult to set up, and IMHO, it is easier to link up Insteon devices using the ISY. Also Scenes are easier to set up in the ISY than with "raw" Insteon devices. Simple programs are not that tough either. Maybe a browser based interface to supplant the Admin Console.

 

I have not yet enabled the ISY skill (IZZY)  as all the things I want out of the Echo/ISY seems to be adequately handled by the HA Bridge (HUE Emulation). Once UDI issues their ISY "Connected Home" offering, I may switch to that just to see how it differs from the HA Bridge and if it reduces complexity in my home.

 

I have the same complaint re Insteon software. UDI is much more responsive with a much more flexible product.  In my home, all physical device control (lights, appliances) are controlled by Insteon devices which in turn are controlled by the ISY which is controlled by iPads, my iPhone and now the Echo. The ISY also handles my two Z-wave thermostats.  I have learned the hard way that once the HVAC system is properly setup - leave the thermostats alone. If you have to fiddle with the thermostats something is amiss. Ergo voice control of a thermostat should not be needed.

 

I do have boxes full of X10 stuff and some Insteon Tstats, so if any one needs some . . . 

[jerlands]

I really see Echo as a fleeting fad that will soon be supplanted by localized voice control.  Echo is tied to the cloud which has obvious disadvantages in latency, security and reliability.  It's fun playing with though and I believe the Portal has real value in that it eliminates the need for certificates, DDNS server and all that goes along with it.

 

 

 

Jon...

[Scottmichaelj]

I really see Echo as a fleeting fad that will soon be supplanted by localized voice control. Echo is tied to the cloud which has obvious disadvantages in latency, security and reliability. It's fun playing with though and I believe the Portal has real value in that it eliminates the need for certificates, DDNS server and all that goes along with it.

 

 

 

Jon...

Jon, as much as I want to agree there has been already other "always on" alternatives but none as easy as the Amazon Echo and with excellent voice recognition.

[jerlands]

Jon, as much as I want to agree there has been already other "always on" alternatives but none as easy as the Amazon Echo and with excellent voice recognition.

 

True, but all this still in infancy.  As demand increases so does the resource to improve and refine.  HA voice control has clear benefits and I believe the effort to provide this feature is becoming more of a focus with manufacturers.

 

 

Jon...

[barrygordon]

Right now with the ISY, Echo and the HA Bridge (soon to be replaced by the ISY "Connected Home"), I am doing what I want when I want. I still use a switch if it is convenient, i.e. I don't go out of my way to use the Echo for lighting control, but rather driven by convenience.

 

I don't like having to use the cloud, but natural language speech recognition takes a significant amount of processing power. If someone develops a RPi form factor device that only did Natural Language Speech processing at a reasonable price point I would jump at it. The only thing that might come close from what I have read is the Jibo robot which AFAIK does its speech recognition internally, is expensive and not yet available.

 

My experience with the Echo cloud is fairly positive with well over 90% of my voice requests get processed immediately (<2 secs). The "OK" comes a little too late for my liking. Infrequently there is a delay and the LED ring just spins and then the request is fulfilled (>4 secs, < 7 secs) which I attribute to cloud congestion. I do have a very fast LAN, Excellent Wi-Fi and a wide pipe from my ISP.

 

With regard to the statement "...certificates, DDNS server and all that goes along with it...."   My use of the echo may require that stuff but I don't see it.  I already use a dynamic DNS service so my WEB site as available. If a certificate is needed for the Echo it is "under the covers" unless you are writing your own skill.

[jerlands]

 If someone develops a RPi form factor device that only did Natural Language Speech processing at a reasonable price point I would jump at it. The only thing that might come close from what I have read is the Jibo robot which AFAIK does its speech recognition internally, is expensive and not yet available.

 

I'm not going to pretend to know anything about it but you might have a look at Jasper.  Right now I understand it's resource intensive and slow but these things are "under development."  There are also schemes for connecting whole house omni-directional microphones to Rpi.

 

 

Jon...

[jsmith6]

Michel and Benoit,

 

Thank you for the great work UDI has been doing for many years, making truly innovative products. I am trying to get my Echo and ISY working together, with some little success, but no success getting programs working. Is there any trick to it?

 

Best,

 

James

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi James,

 

I was about to respond to your email just now!

 

The main issue is the way Echo tries to put things into slots. And, on top of that, the manner in which it figures out what's permissible in each slot. When we got started, Amazon asked us to put as many samples as possible for each slot so that Echo can use them for inferences. After long and arduous testing on our side, it seems that Echo works much better with much fewer samples (perhaps it's timing out?) and we have reported these anomalies to Amazon. They're going to get back to us with an answer.

 

In the meantime, please start with a program called test. Check your Echo app while you are instructing Echo and make sure it understands you as it should.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[GPG]

Michel,

My Echo is on back order and I can't wait for it to arrive. I just wanted to say how gratifying it is to see the enthusiasm and dedication you and the UDI staff have demonstrated over the years to make the ISY product line so great.

 

Thanks for outstanding support,

George

[jsmith6]

Dear Michel,

 

Thank you again for your help. Changing the name to "test" worked. Here are the results of my tests this evening:

 

1. I renamed the program to “test”, and it started to work (program was at the root level) on the first, but after I removed the conditions in the “if” section

 

2. I moved the program “test” to a subfolder three levels deep, and it continued to work

 

3. I renamed the program (in the subfolders) to “test kitchen” and it stopped working; the Alexa app shows that Alexa is not understanding what I’m saying, instead, thinking I’m saying “Tell is you to run program test kitchen,” instead of “Tell izzy to run program test kitchen”

 

4. I moved the program “test kitchen” to the top level of the program folders, and got the same results as #3

 

5. I moved the program back to the subfolder and renamed it merely “test,” it immediately worked

 

6. I then tried all of the following program names, and none of them worked (with comments in parentheses for each)

a. “test 1” (Alexa understood “tell is you to run program test one”, as #3 above)

b. “test h” (Alexa understood “tell is you to run program test age”)

c. “test Sonos” (Alexa understood properly, but responded: “Program test SONOS not found”

d. “test Sonos 1” (Alexa understood properly, but responded: “Program test SONOS 1 not found”)

e. “test Sonos h” (I gave this command three times, and Alexa did not understand properly the first two times, but all three times answered that the program was not found; in order, she thought I said the following: “…test SONOS age”, “…test SONOS 8”, “test SONOS h”. I thought it was interesting that she put Sonos in all caps, meaning she probably knows what it is, and that the word is a reserved term.

 

 

Also, please note that it usually takes Alexa/Izzy about 40 seconds to refresh devices, reporting that 173 devices are found, with one duplicate.

 

Any further insights from anyone would be most welcome.

 

Best,

 

James

 

[jsmith6]

Here are some more program names that haven't worked, with either Alexa's response or more commonly what it thought I said. It seems that most of the time Alexa does not realize that I am invoking Izzy, and in other cases, even when it does realize that, it can not find the program I want run.

 

plan a (“tell is to run program planet a”, “planet egg”, “tell Izzy to run the program plan egg”)

 

test b (“test be”)

 

tester (“…program test”)

 

keypad (“tell is to run…”)

 

kitchen radio (response: “what do you want to hear?)

 

lock (“tell is to run…”)

 

news (“here is your flash briefing”)

 

program (“tell is to run…”)

 

radio (“what do you want to hear?”)

 

test alpha (“tell is to run…”)

 

test bravo (“tell is to run…”)

 

test delta (“tell is to run…”)

 

test man (“tell is to run…”)

 

test radio (“tell is to run…”)

 

tester ('I can’t get the program “promo tester from TuneIn right now”')

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi George, thanks so very much for your vote of confidence. It means A LOT to us and what we strive for.

 

Hi James, thanks so very much. There is definitately a problem with how Alexa assigns things to slots. We have to wait for them to come back from vacation and work on it together.

 

In the meantime, can you use names that you used for your devices? In the case of programs, it seems that one word names work better than two. Also, Alexa converts things literally. So, test 1 will not work but "test one" might.

 

Thanks again so very much for the feedback and your patience.

 

With kind regards,

​Michel

[ronbo]

Benoit/Michel

 

I can appreciate the headache that Echo "slots" are giving you.  I am in the process of writing a Skill to control my SONOS with the Echo.  Commands like play, pause, volume up ... work great with the slots because you can provide a list of all possible commands. Its also nice because the Echo will do certain things like convert "three" to "3".  The issue I have seen is when I want to say Tell SONOS to play {favorite} in the {Room}.  There is no way I can list the name of every station that I would save to my favorite.  Obviously I can modify the Skill every time I add a favorite but that is not really practical... I think this is a similar problem that you have with device names, technically the device name could be anything.  What I am currently doing and having some luck with, is using the LITERAL type. From what I have read, when using the literal type it is suggested that you give fewer examples rather that an inclusive list. So I have things like "wins", "Holiday radio", "Billy Joel classics". This tells Echo that my favorite could be one, two or three words.  I receive the data without any manipulation on the part of the Echo.  I then use a LCS (Longest Common String) function to match what was said against my list of favorites and find the "most likely" match. I have had much more luck with this, than using a custom slot type. My skill set will never be sent for certification, so I am sure I have more flexibility than you do but just some food for though.

 

Great job with the ISY... I am a fan.

[imagamejunky]

ronbo,

If and when you are ready to share your skill I would really appreciate it.  I am really hoping for a solution to control my sonos system with the echo.

Thanks in advance.

Junky

[ronbo]

Junky,

 

Working on it in my spare time, but I will be glad to share it.

 

Ron

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi ronbo,

 

Thanks so very much for the feedback and that's precisely the issue. We did start with literals but Amazon told us to use slots instead. I am not sure why the recommended it in the first place but this slot mechanism does not work very well and, on top of that, skills that are large (such as ours) cannot even be saved. So, in an effort to give Amazon more feedback, we went back and tried literal and, again, the only way it made any improvements was to have less samples. So, it seems that slots/literals both have an issue when the number of samples is large. With literals, there's another drawback: what Echo responds with has to be altered.

 

We have provided all these feedback to Amazon and they said that they had sent it to their development team for review. And, we are waiting ....

 

Thanks again and with kind regards,

Michel