Brian H Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 Teken; I have never tried Stu's BuzzerLinc. So I can't say if it would be louder. I suspect it would be. As the Alarm Module is not overly loud. Until Smartlabs stops sitting on their hands and sends UDI the needed information to add it to the Administrative Console. They are not too much value to me. Maybe the 30 day. I am not happy thing may have to be used.
mwester Posted January 1, 2016 Posted January 1, 2016 ... I'm not that impressed with the INSTEON garage door solution as well... what Z-Wave product have you installed for your garage? Can you display the status of the door (open/closed) on a INSTEON KPL using the ISY? I'm using the Linear GD00Z device. It's a secure z-wave device, so it needs to be added to the ISY very close by, and then moved to its final position. It shows "Open", "Closed", "Opening", and "Closing" statuses (and "Unknown", I think) -- a program on the ISY is the only way (presently) to link the status with a KPL button. I have a button shortage on the preferred KPL, so mine only shows "closed" and "not closed" status, but I'd very much like to move some buttons around and display open (red) and closed (green), with both lit for motion - very easy to do with a program on the ISY.
stusviews Posted January 1, 2016 Posted January 1, 2016 Anyone aware of a Z-Wave garage door operator that works on one-piece garage doors?
k5map Posted January 1, 2016 Posted January 1, 2016 Teken, Since you're not tempering your replies ... What do you put the chances of INSTEON ever coming out with a device similar to this? http://www.smarthome.com/evolve-guest-controls-lcd-1t-z-wave-tabletop-5-button-lcd-controller-black-1.html
Teken Posted January 1, 2016 Author Posted January 1, 2016 Teken, Since you're not tempering your replies ... What do you put the chances of INSTEON ever coming out with a device similar to this? http://www.smarthome.com/evolve-guest-controls-lcd-1t-z-wave-tabletop-5-button-lcd-controller-black-1.html Happy New Years! I believe at this juncture its hard to say what Smartlabs will introduce into the market given the following surprises: Apple Watch, Amazon Echo, Harmony Remote, Alert Module, Morning Linc, AllJoyn, Apple Home Kit, etc. Smartlabs has over the years been very consistent in offering one new item in the Insteon line up. This can't be said about the other Z-Wave / ZigBee vendors in the open market place. They have as far as I am aware been the only vendor who has actually taken on ideas from the general public (Wish List) and introduced them. Regardless of my past bitching and moaning they have updated many existing hardware devices which I believe was the result of extreme failures, bad press (public shaming), and the need to enter new commercial spaces. This was seen with the inclusion of 100 - 277 VAC 50/60 Hz support, more robust PSU, and lower energy consumption across the board. They have updated many Insteon devices to have dual colored LED's which helps determining same phase / opposite phase via the 4 tap beacon test. The most recent updates with this were the KPL and Switch lincs which include the dual colored LED's. One of the many requests by me and others has been to go a step further and include RGB LED's under all KPL buttons. This essentially would offer native color support and avoid having to use a single purpose colored filter as is being used now. But again this company doesn't plan that far ahead or even consider such ideas. Given the very fact the KPL switch is one of the most expensive Insteon device in the line up. People could probably accept and pay a premium price if it included the following: - Multi colored RGB LED's under each button - Native beeping which could be adjusted for duration and frequency. - Assign any button to be a load button - Native flash of the LED button with adjustable duration and frequency - Support all known loads not just incandescent's - Position the antenna to the front of the case - Allow power line / RF to be disabled when required. All of the above are easy to do and add very little cost to the over all design of the final product. It should be noted that two new products which were the On-Off Relay Module and the dual outlet have the ability to turn the RF / Power Line off. This was done as part of a marketing ploy in being able to say their product could reduce RF noise pollution.. What they should have done is used this capability to mirror other RF only devices like Z-Wave. But again their lack of focus, planning, and design does not allow this to actually happen. Meaning we have all heard about how some random noise maker / signal sucker has eaten the Insteon signal. This is why having the ability to use strictly RF only would not only be a great trouble shooting tool but also circumvent power line issues while using the RF portion only. I've tested this RF only capability and my personal experience is they have lots of room for improvement. Keeping in mind all of the current shipping products have the antenna buried in the back of the case instead of the front! How on Gods green Earth is the RF signal going to be transmitted out of a metal JBOX?? The Insteon Wish List: http://forum.insteon.com/forum/main-category/new-insteon-device-wish-list Has been going on for years and many of us have asked for a similar LCD touch key pad but this has fallen on deaf ears. I and many others have also expressed the need to have all Insteon devices indicate voltage, watts, KWH, etc. The Z-Wave / ZigBee camp has been embracing this energy monitoring for more than two years now. Smartlabs has not, and one would figure they would lead the charge in this endeavor . . . Again its the lack of vision, consideration, and only seeing today and not planning for tomorrow! For the most part, people can look past cost if there is some conception in thinking there is real value. This has been seen by the mythical Apple branded products that are pervasive in the market now. Because the iSheep are in the belief it offers so much value and features they will pay a solid premium over other competing products which is pure genius and testament to their marketing power. Smartlabs at the moment does not offer this same kind of value but they could. As was noted above if the inclusion of the Micro SD card to the Alert Module. Just this single addition would have made a silly product into a epic product! Perhaps more of these conversations (Public Shaming) will nudge them forward in taking on some of these ideals and many more. Right when you think you can count Smartlabs out of the horse race they come out with a decent idea. Ha . . .
SteveSBE Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Just wondering... Has anyone ever created or thought of creating a list of Smartlabs products they believe that fall into the 4 categories suggested below? Excellent OK Conditionally OK (with an explanation conditions under which it's OK) Avoid Purchasing / Remove from Existing Systems The Smartlabs product review ratings are often not effective and this would be helpful for all of us making buying decisions, comparing products, and involve less work in screening emails. Steve
Teken Posted January 2, 2016 Author Posted January 2, 2016 Just wondering... Has anyone ever created or thought of creating a list of Smartlabs products they believe that fall into the 4 categories suggested below? Excellent OK Conditionally OK (with an explanation conditions under which it's OK) Avoid Purchasing / Remove from Existing Systems The Smartlabs product review ratings are often not effective and this would be helpful for all of us making buying decisions, comparing products, and involve less work in screening emails. Steve I've often thought about doing this here in the UDI forums as a main reference thread for others to offer their feed back. Perhaps you should get the ball rolling and the rest of us can chime in? The one thing I wish this forum would allow is a much larger extended poll option. So this would allow say 35 items to be listed and under each item had the choices of say good, bad, excellent, etc. Afterwards a person could just reply back with their personal reviews and thoughts about the item.
Brian H Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 I had to look. I took the cover off of mine. It uses a 2457D2 LampLinc PCB without the dimmer parts. May have different components to drive the sounder. Could not tell. Case is different than either the LampLinc or the Range Extender. Sounder is larger than the beeper in the LampLinc and Range Extender. Sounder mounted {glued or double sticky taped} on the front cover pointing IN. Would have been better if the front case had some slots or holes. So the sounder could point out of the case. Would be much louder.
paulbates Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 I had to look. I took the cover off of mine. It uses a 2457D2 LampLinc PCB without the dimmer parts. May have different components to drive the sounder. Could not tell. Case is different than either the LampLinc or the Range Extender. Sounder is larger than the beeper in the LampLinc and Range Extender. Sounder mounted {glued or double sticky taped} on the front cover pointing IN. Would have been better if the front case had some slots or holes. So the sounder could point out of the case. Would be much louder. Good man!. So not unlike the smokebridge.... "what else can we do with this lamplinc thingy?..." Paul
lilyoyo1 Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 Imagine how many feature requests mfg. probably get in any general day? If they added every little feature we ask for, the price of the devices would go up uy then we would be complaining about a 75 dollar switch instead of a 50 dollar switch. It takes time to add features without increasing costs. You have to weigh the pros and cons of adding each capabilities. Things people on here would look for may be overwhelming to the other 95% of consumers who would find some way to screw something up. Not only that, they have to come up with new features to not only win new customers over but get old customers wanting to buy again. Introduce new features to fast, you have people waiting to buy or hesitant to buy simply because something "New" will be added. That's electronics in general. You can add every feature a person can want to something but once done, how do you get them to upgrade? Onto the question of Insteon and Zwave. I use both and feel you won't go wrong with either one. Personally I prefer insteon switches due to the fact that I like the look and feel of them better (compared to Zwave in the same price range).than Zwave. I prefer Zwave sensors over Insteon sensors however. I also feel Insteon is much easier to learn and work with than Zwave for a person just getting started. The new generation zwave stuff is really good. It's range is much better than previous generations. I say get the Zwave module so you can use both. Choose 1 protocol as the mainstay of your system, and fill in with the other where your primary protocal fails.
mwester Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 Imagine how many feature requests mfg. probably get in any general day? If they added every little feature we ask for, the price of the devices would go up uy then we would be complaining about a 75 dollar switch instead of a 50 dollar switch. ... Yep, you're right - SmartLabs/SmartHome can't do this. However, a common strategy when the demand for variations outstrips a company's ability to meet is to involve third-parties. And this is where SmartLabs/SmartHome has completely missed the boat. Consider - GM doesn't sell a custom welding truck -- but they WILL sell a stripped-down truck chassis and cab to a company that puts the heavy-duty stuff on it, the bed with the big generator and welder and vise on the back -- and both GM and the third-party benefit. If SmartLabs/SmartHome would open up the device infrastructure more, we'd see the demand for custom devices being satisfied. Instead, those $ are going to z-wave vendors. Poor marketing strategy...
LeeG Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 Take a look at the Smartenit (was Simplehomenet) Insteon product line. Their Insteon products are built on top of a basic Insteon base device provided by SmartLabs. Their products add an additional circuit board to this base device that implements the Smartenit Insteon function.
mwester Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 I've looked at Smartenit -- by analogy, that's like the after-market auto customizers that have to buy a complete automobile from GM, strip it out, and hack their stuff onto it. Basically, Smartenit buys a full PLM from SmartLabs, and add their board to the serial port! I'm thinking more like the circuit board from the new Lamplinc, with SmartLabs opening up the firmware to the thirdparty so that they can give it unique behaviors, and do so at the price point of the Lamplinc - rather than having to *start* pricing at double the lamplinc price point! Both have their place -- starting with a PLM is good for a company that doesn't have the ability or desire to modify Insteon firmware, has a low-volume product, and has a high-value "thing" they're integrating -- in that case, the cost (and size) of the PLM is immaterial. However, there are a lot of other devices out there that already have a case and a plug designed, where space is at a premium, and where minimizing component costs make a huge difference -- that's the market that MOST of the interesting devices fit into (think z-wave multi-sensors for example -- yes, I can build one of these and bolt it onto a PLM like Smartenit has done, but that instantly prices it out of the market...)
Teken Posted January 6, 2016 Author Posted January 6, 2016 I believe people should understand there is a specific difference on simply adding on to an existing product. Or being allowed to create one using the actual PLM chip set. This has been my position forever with Smartlabs. As far as I am aware there have only been the following Insteon enabled products. Whether or not they had only the PLM chip or used an existing PCB like from a light switch who knows. In no specific order these have been the vendors who had or still incorporate Insteon: Skylink, Broan, Smartenit, Flood Stop, Bell. As you all can see the list is incredibly small and the only active makers are Skylink & Smartenit. I've said this millions of times if Smartlabs was able to convince just one major appliance maker like GE, LG, Samsung, it doesn't matter who. The world could be their oyster but instead they decide to sit on the side lines and do nothing.
Brian H Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 In the early days. There was a big list of assorted vendors actively looking at Insteon. It quietly went away. Leviton went to Z-Wave and not Insteon. Maybe they could not get chips from Smartlabs or the licensing fees where too great.
Teken Posted January 6, 2016 Author Posted January 6, 2016 In the early days. There was a big list of assorted vendors actively looking at Insteon. It quietly went away. Leviton went to Z-Wave and not Insteon. Maybe they could not get chips from Smartlabs or the licensing fees where too great. Yes, I recall this same conversation a few years ago and sadly you're correct. Not one major vendor decided to go with the Insteon protocol which is a total shame. I still believe there is some hope in making some in roads with various hardware makers though. Sometimes you need to offer a loss leader to get your foot in the door. As I stated many times the best way is to offer the PLM chips for free or at a large discount and let who ever decide how they will integrate said chip into their wares. Its been proven over the years when you simply offer a free market the basic tools and building blocks the market will take off and grow. Sometimes like with the Government they need to step in and at least boot strap the process and then release the reigns to the market.
Brian H Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 After deciding to keep mine and opening it for inspection. I removed the plastic case protective film on it. It is now louder but nothing I would write home about. I still think a grill on the front and the sounder facing out not in. Would improve it greatly.
larryllix Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 In the early days. There was a big list of assorted vendors actively looking at Insteon. It quietly went away. Leviton went to Z-Wave and not Insteon. Maybe they could not get chips from Smartlabs or the licensing fees where too great. Total control worked for Apple after they floundered for 30 years. But Apple came out with a revolutionary new product. SH is only doing what their competitors are doing and offers nothing more than others, as far as lay users are concerned.
db2ace2 Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 Happy New Years! I believe at this juncture its hard to say what Smartlabs will introduce into the market given the following surprises: Apple Watch, Amazon Echo, Harmony Remote, Alert Module, Morning Linc, AllJoyn, Apple Home Kit, etc. Smartlabs has over the years been very consistent in offering one new item in the Insteon line up. This can't be said about the other Z-Wave / ZigBee vendors in the open market place. They have as far as I am aware been the only vendor who has actually taken on ideas from the general public (Wish List) and introduced them. Regardless of my past bitching and moaning they have updated many existing hardware devices which I believe was the result of extreme failures, bad press (public shaming), and the need to enter new commercial spaces. This was seen with the inclusion of 100 - 277 VAC 50/60 Hz support, more robust PSU, and lower energy consumption across the board. They have updated many Insteon devices to have dual colored LED's which helps determining same phase / opposite phase via the 4 tap beacon test. The most recent updates with this were the KPL and Switch lincs which include the dual colored LED's. One of the many requests by me and others has been to go a step further and include RGB LED's under all KPL buttons. This essentially would offer native color support and avoid having to use a single purpose colored filter as is being used now. But again this company doesn't plan that far ahead or even consider such ideas. Given the very fact the KPL switch is one of the most expensive Insteon device in the line up. People could probably accept and pay a premium price if it included the following: - Multi colored RGB LED's under each button - Native beeping which could be adjusted for duration and frequency. - Assign any button to be a load button - Native flash of the LED button with adjustable duration and frequency - Support all known loads not just incandescent's - Position the antenna to the front of the case - Allow power line / RF to be disabled when required. All of the above are easy to do and add very little cost to the over all design of the final product. It should be noted that two new products which were the On-Off Relay Module and the dual outlet have the ability to turn the RF / Power Line off. This was done as part of a marketing ploy in being able to say their product could reduce RF noise pollution.. What they should have done is used this capability to mirror other RF only devices like Z-Wave. But again their lack of focus, planning, and design does not allow this to actually happen. Meaning we have all heard about how some random noise maker / signal sucker has eaten the Insteon signal. This is why having the ability to use strictly RF only would not only be a great trouble shooting tool but also circumvent power line issues while using the RF portion only. I've tested this RF only capability and my personal experience is they have lots of room for improvement. Keeping in mind all of the current shipping products have the antenna buried in the back of the case instead of the front! How on Gods green Earth is the RF signal going to be transmitted out of a metal JBOX?? The Insteon Wish List: http://forum.insteon.com/forum/main-category/new-insteon-device-wish-list Has been going on for years and many of us have asked for a similar LCD touch key pad but this has fallen on deaf ears. I and many others have also expressed the need to have all Insteon devices indicate voltage, watts, KWH, etc. The Z-Wave / ZigBee camp has been embracing this energy monitoring for more than two years now. Smartlabs has not, and one would figure they would lead the charge in this endeavor . . . Again its the lack of vision, consideration, and only seeing today and not planning for tomorrow! For the most part, people can look past cost if there is some conception in thinking there is real value. This has been seen by the mythical Apple branded products that are pervasive in the market now. Because the iSheep are in the belief it offers so much value and features they will pay a solid premium over other competing products which is pure genius and testament to their marketing power. Smartlabs at the moment does not offer this same kind of value but they could. As was noted above if the inclusion of the Micro SD card to the Alert Module. Just this single addition would have made a silly product into a epic product! Perhaps more of these conversations (Public Shaming) will nudge them forward in taking on some of these ideals and many more. Right when you think you can count Smartlabs out of the horse race they come out with a decent idea. Ha . . . Very good article here! I wish Smarthome would see it and act on it! Many of us have and do invest a lot in INSTEON but have been left high and dry when it comes to basic needs such as the Alert Module which to me is the most needed device but worthless in its currently released configuration. What Smarthome needs to realize is that none of us wants to invest any more in INSTEON until we can make it work for us and to do that you have to add the Bells and Whistles we have all been asking for. Personally I would spend $200 for a RING Doorbell if it also had INSTEON integrated into it, so the idea that people wont pay for what they want is ludicrous. At the same time I can buy a chime from China for < $15 bucks to do much much more that the current INSTEON Alert, so needless to say I wont be buying an Alert Module with two barely audible tones for $49!. Same with buying an INSTEON Doorbell kit. Our current Doorbell *Non INSTEON" is currently broken and needs replacing. I will not however even consider an INSTEON Doorbell Kit as a replacement since it is nowhere near the capability of the RING doorbell that I am probably going to spend $190 for even though it does not have INSTEON capability It just seems like Smarthome does not get the big picture that people will buy this stuff if it is available and is brought up to current day functionality standards. If China can make a wireless Doorbell Chime with 52 loud tones and MP3 for less than $13 dollars then surely Smarthome could make it with INSTEON added for say $130 or so? I would buy that but I will not buy what Smarthome is offering me today. I am at a point where I have to quit buying INSTEON and abandon my significant Investment and look to other more functional and well designed products in other markets. Smarthome needs to get off the POT and produce something usable soon or they will lose many more of is soon! So far the only thing keeping me here is not wanting to give up on the investment I have in this! Charles
kohai Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 Very good article here! I wish Smarthome would see it and act on it! Many of us have and do invest a lot in INSTEON but have been left high and dry when it comes to basic needs such as the Alert Module which to me is the most needed device but worthless in its currently released configuration. What Smarthome needs to realize is that none of us wants to invest any more in INSTEON until we can make it work for us and to do that you have to add the Bells and Whistles we have all been asking for. Personally I would spend $200 for a RING Doorbell if it also had INSTEON integrated into it, so the idea that people wont pay for what they want is ludicrous. At the same time I can buy a chime from China for < $15 bucks to do much much more that the current INSTEON Alert, so needless to say I wont be buying an Alert Module with two barely audible tones for $49!. Same with buying an INSTEON Doorbell kit. Our current Doorbell *Non INSTEON" is currently broken and needs replacing. I will not however even consider an INSTEON Doorbell Kit as a replacement since it is nowhere near the capability of the RING doorbell that I am probably going to spend $190 for even though it does not have INSTEON capability It just seems like Smarthome does not get the big picture that people will buy this stuff if it is available and is brought up to current day functionality standards. If China can make a wireless Doorbell Chime with 52 loud tones and MP3 for less than $13 dollars then surely Smarthome could make it with INSTEON added for say $130 or so? I would buy that but I will not buy what Smarthome is offering me today. I am at a point where I have to quit buying INSTEON and abandon my significant Investment and look to other more functional and well designed products in other markets. Smarthome needs to get off the POT and produce something usable soon or they will lose many more of is soon! So far the only thing keeping me here is not wanting to give up on the investment I have in this! Charles I think Fibaro might have a winner if this ever is released. Since they are a z-wave oriented company, maybe they'll have some integration options. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7zSht5S-aY
Brian H Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 I was disappointed to read in the 4.4.2 Beta thread. That UDI still does not have the Alarm Modules API to support it. I guess I should have used the 30 day unhappy return guarantee. As it seem the folks at Smartlabs don't really care about customers. Using one of the best controllers to enhance their products popularity.
Michel Kohanim Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 Hi Brian, As are we ... still haven't heard anything. With kind regards, Michel
tigercat Posted February 26, 2016 Posted February 26, 2016 I'm new to this topic, but I thought I'd chime in, because there was some talk about what's needed to supplement the current INSTEON line of products. In particular analog sensors and perhaps some digital control. There's a free-for-non-commercial use software product which can build home automation systems and alarm systems using 3rd party products. The favorite hub (because they are cool and cheap) is the raspberry pi, but any *nix host will work. It can use XBees, INSTEON devices, Z-Wave devices, and Arduinos (and others). The Arduinos are particularly useful, because they are cheap ($20) and there are 1000s of sensors which can be connected to them (they have analog inputs, digital inputs, and an I2C bus). So you can make INSTEON based systems and mix in pretty much any other kind of technology you want. Systems can be built without programming (using the included web interface), and there are howtos on the website (I've got an INSTEON based alarm system in my office controlled by a raspberry pi which is documented). There's been an article written about a home automation system published in Raspberry Pi Geek Magazine (see http://www.raspberry-pi-geek.com/Archive/2014/05/Automate-and-monitor-the-physical-systems-in-your-home). You can see documentation on this product and download the software at http://www.catalinacomputing.com. PS: If you are interested customized alerts, there are all kinds of sounds you can make with a raspberry pi or an Arduino. Disclaimer: I work for Catalina Computing (but I'm also a hard core technologist who's tinkered with a lot of devices and software, and I think this software is pretty neat)
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