Is Logitech Harmony Hub compatible with ISY?

[madcodger]

Hi everyone.  Apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere, but a quick search left me a little bit unclear.  I need to purchase a new remote for our new living room TV (LG 65UF9500), which uses LG's RF-based magic remote.  This is necessary because, while the magic remote is fantastic for controlling the TV and Sonos Playbar, it lacks the ability to control DVR functions on the attached Tivo mini (enormous fail on LG's part).  Conversely, the Tivo remote can't control the Mini, LG TV AND the Sonos Playbar simultaneously (basically Sonos' fault, but that's another story).  Anyway, the solution appears to be either a Logitech Harmony "Companion" remote, or their "Elite" model, both of which have IR and RF control, and both of which use the Harmony Hub.  So:

 

Biggest question:  Is the Logitech Harmony Hub compatible with the ISY994, in terms of not interfering with the ISY?  We do not use any of the IR functions of the ISY, and I have little interest in doing so at this point.  But I do not want to have issues with the Insteon system, which is the backbone of my automated home.  Am I OK to add this Harmony Hub?

 

Other questions:  1)  Is there anything to be gained from adding the Harmony hub, in terms of communicating with the ISY?  2) If anyone cares to recommend other IR + RF remotes, I'm all ears.  Any ideas?   3)  Any opinions on whether I really need the "Elite" model?  I really just want to use the remote to control the Tivo mini, LG TV, and Sonos Playbar.  Anything extra, such as turning on / off Insteon-controlled lights, is just a bonus but not necessary, and not worth the additional $200 they want for the Elite model. 

 

Thanks for all help,

 

Joe

 

 

 

[kohai]

I'm curious on this too as I'm juggling 3 remotes currently (tivo, harman/kardon receiver, and roku) and I've looked at the logitech offerings and haven't been too wowed.

[ScottAvery]

I believe you cannot directly connect ISY to Harmony Hub because the login protocol is not supported in the current ISY firmware.  There is a workaround that some have used using a third party product to create a REST interface.  I have not tried it myself, but search for BWS Systems RESTful Harmony here or on the web.  I am not sure if that does two-way communication, but if so you would also need the ISY Network Module to send outbound to the hub.

[oberkc]

I have two of the harmony hubs. No problems regarding interference. I expected none and have noticed none. Add the harmony hub without worry, I say. Furthermore, I find the hub to be the best universal remote I have ever seen and highly recommend it. Pick the elite if you value the ability to access favorite channels with one touch and don't want to use an app on a phone. Otherwise, the basic remote is quite nice.

 

The only other remotes that I am happy with are apps on tablets communicating to the TV via itach IR devices. There are benefits and drawbacks to this approach, but I like this as well as the harmony dedicated remote. Communication FROM the hub would be relatively straight forward via IR. Program the ISY to recognize certain IR commands from the hub, and it becomes nothing more than a simple program to trigger lighting scenes from your Logitech harmony.

 

Like the others I have made no attempt to communicate from the ISY TO the hub.

[madcodger]

So, I purchased and installed the Hub and basic companion remote, and as oberkc notes, it is thus far the best remote I've ever used. Easy setup, works perfectly, and no interference with Insteon/ISY. I was under the initial impression that it "spoke" Insteon, but it simply receives and transmits wifi and bluetooth, and transmits IR. I will check into ISY communication at a later point via wifi, but for now, it solved the immediate need very well.

[oberkc]

It speaks insteon hub, I understand, but not plain insteon.

[madcodger]

It speaks insteon hub, I understand, but not plain insteon.

Correct. Communicates via wifi as I understand it. Given that others appear to be using REST commands with it, this gives me something to explore.

[paulbates]

Correct. Communicates via wifi as I understand it. Given that others appear to be using REST commands with it, this gives me something to explore.

 

I've had my eye on this post. I've had the harmony for a few years and thinking about trying this. It uses an application called restful harmony, and that needs to run on a server type box. The software architecture of the harmony requires an authentication token to communicate with it, and the ISY Network module does not support that... restful harmony fills that gap.

 

There also appears to be ITTT support for the harmony, but haven't looked at that yet... its another option.

 

Paul

[madcodger]

Thanks, Paul. I also found that thread and read through, but had not considered IFTTT. Will now check that out. I have to say, the Harmony works well and has very high WAF. Winner in my book.

 

Now if only I can find the time to mess around with it. I think that's the thing I most desire about retirement one day (quite a few years off): Time to play around with cool ideas.

[502ss]

Also watching this thread as I am very close to pulling the trigger on a harmony. I will tell you that IFTTT is very very powerful and they are adding cabability everyday but if you are looking for something that provides almost instant response I think you will be disappointed with IFTTT. Some days it's really good and other days it could take 20-30 seconds for it to trigger. I just learned this hard lesson when trying to use IFTTT to bridge the gap between my echo and my isy for lighting, etc. I finally ended up buying a pi and running the bwssystems ha-bridge which doesn't rely on cloud services. Again I still use IFTTT for some things but mainly for things that are not time sensitive.

 

Just my 2 cents!

[Jimbo.Automates]

The harmony elite is great, I have been using harmony remotes for a really long time, and recently upgraded one to the elite and the added convenience of controlling lights with hard buttons on this remote is awesome. I do this with my ISYHelper program running on a RPi which also allows you to see all lights on the harmony display and control and see their current level. Since doing this, our two bedside insteon remotes rarely get used. I am considering adding restful-harmony support to ISYHelper to allow Alexa to control the remote locally instead of thru IFTTT.

 

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

[oberkc]

I think that if I were interested in controlling my lights with the harmony, I would simply do so via IR. Teach the ISY a few IR commands and create a couple of simple programs...instant control.

[Jimbo.Automates]

I think that if I were interested in controlling my lights with the harmony, I would simply do so via IR. Teach the ISY a few IR commands and create a couple of simple programs...instant control.

That would work for simple cases where the ISY is near the harmony, but with multiple harmonys it's more difficult, and would require more hardware. Also not sure if this can be done with the dedicated buttons on the Elite. The WAF of the dedicated buttons is very high

[kohai]

Looks like there is an RESTful api?

 

 

"Harmony API is RESTful and leverages OAuth 2."

https://www.myharmony.com/en-us/harmony-api

 

Thread discussing frustration with not getting access to API:

http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Harmony-Hub-Based-Remotes/Ultimate-Hub-API/td-p/1049607/page/7

 

A couple of unofficial methods:

 

HarmonyHubControl (Python, based on pyharmony)

http://sourceforge.net/projects/harmonyhubcontrol/files/

 

Pyharmony (Python, older)

https://github.com/jterrace/pyharmony/

 

harmony-java-client (Java, based on Pyharmony)

https://github.com/tuck182/harmony-java-client

 

BWS Systems Java Version:

https://github.com/bwssytems/restful-harmony

 

A discussion on this forum about the API (Michel indicates UDI has requested API access and has not received it):

http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/15193-harmony-api/

[huffmd1]

I would really like to send commands to my Harmony from an insteon keypad.  Is there anyway this is possible?  I am ok at this stuff but not super advanced.  

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello everyone,

 

If you do know anyone at Logitech, please contact them. They are simply not responding to us.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[ccclapp]

I would really like to send commands to my Harmony from an insteon keypad.  Is there anyway this is possible?  I am ok at this stuff but not super advanced.  

 

Yes, with some effort...

 

The thread below discusses communicating 2-way between Harmony and Isy.  It requires a raspberry pi (or other "server").  It enables the following:

a. The active Harmony ACTIVITY to be reported to ISY (which can be used by ISY to trigger actions)

b. ISY to change the Harmony ACTIVITY

c. Harmony remote/app "Lighting Appliance" controls to trigger any ISY actioin

Note a and b are activity, not device control.

http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/16787-isyhelper-interface-older-foscams-maker-ifttt-amazon-echo-and-more/

 

In addition, Harmony devices database (where you specify up your TV, etc) include the ISY yielding 45+/- IR codes that ISY responds to naively (assuming you have an IR compatible ISY (or add the IR module).  This means, ISY can be incorporated into any Harmony activity and also be controlled individually, just live any other AV equipment.  THis gives full 1-way control of ISY from Harmony.

 

In addition, ISY can send out unlimited IR commands using the Global Cache WF2IR or other devices.

In addition ISY can communicate with many AV components over wifi, using network resources.

 

As you know you can control anything ISY can do via a KP.  Thus, any of the above can happen via KP.  

 

Thus, peaking specifically about KP control of AV, you can:

- change activity (ISYHelper on RPi)

- control any individual device (network resources and/or IR) (does not involve Harmony, but that doesn't matter as long as activity is not changed, i.e if ISY changes channel or volume of TV, harmony doesn't care (vs turning off TV, can get out of sync and should be done via activity)

- You didn't ask, but you can also control Sonos via ISY.KP.

 

Together this covers most all things.  Having said that, it takes a lot of thought, planning and time to fully integrate ISY/Harmony/KP.  I am embarking on this at this time. 

[huffmd1]

Hey guys I have the communicating via IR signals to the ISY from the harmony working and has been for quite some time.  

 

What I want is to be able to walk into my place and have my door sensor or a keypad button trigger playing music via my harmony activity.  

 

So far I have been unable to do so and it sounds as if Harmony is not cooperating with the people at ISY in getting them the info to do this.  I am not familiar with running a rasberry pi server if you will.  

 

If anyone knows how to do this let me know.  

 

It seems as if ISY should be able to go through the authorization stuff with the Harmony and then be able to communicate with it.  I am able to do this with my Lutron shades and it has worked for some time now.   

[ccclapp]

I am not familiar with running a rasberry pi server if you will.  

 

If anyone knows how to do this let me know.  

 

 

Read and follow the process in the link I gave above.  It will take you time and effort.  I am also a RPi noob and bought one and learned specifically for that over the past week.

 

 

It seems as if ISY should be able to go through the authorization stuff with the Harmony and then be able to communicate with it.  I am able to do this with my Lutron shades and it has worked for some time now.   

 

Maybe you can get Harmony to reply to Universal Devices request.  IN the meantime, this is why we are doing the above.

[ScottAvery]

IFTTT support is in beta for the UDI Portal now, so that may be a path forward for you as there is IFTTT support for Harmony Hub.

[BJB2757]

A few months have passed...it is now pretty easy to have the ISY send a post to an IFTTT Maker recipe which can then turn on/off any Harmony activity.  For example when I say "Alexa turn off everything" the ISY runs a tiny program that turns off the lights, ceiling fan, and (by sending a post to IFTTT) it also tell Harmony to turn off the AV system.

 

But, if anyone can point me to the simplest way to tell Harmony to increase/decrease volume (without transmitting IR through the air), please let me know!  Thanks.

 

-Barry

[stusviews]

If your receiver/preamp requires IR to change the volume, then transmitting IR through the air is the only way to control the volume, unless you stick an IR transmitter over the receiver/preamp receiver

[Jimbo.Automates]

That's what the harmony does, Stu. I hope to have time someday to move harmony control from ISYHelper into a polyglot node server which would make this easier. But have had almost no time the last month couple months to work on Polyglot.

 

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[stusviews]

I indicated two methods of control. which are you talking about?

 

BTW, I have three Harmony Hubs, soon to add a fourth. IMO, the Harmony Hub both limitless and limited, but that's off topic.

[Jimbo.Automates]

I was just saying the IR from the harmony hub can be used to control the volume, which he obviously knows, and just wants a way to control it with Alexa, which I hope to be able to do sometime soon with ISYHelper or a harmony polyglot.

 

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