Linked keypad as wrong device

[epete]

Oh no.  My ISY recognized my 8 scene keypad link as a 5 scene device.  Didn't even know a 5 scene keypad link device existed.  How do I properly remove the device from ISY and start over?

[Techman]

Oh no.  My ISY recognized my 8 scene keypad link as a 5 scene device.  Didn't even know a 5 scene keypad link device existed.  How do I properly remove the device from ISY and start over?

 

The keypadlinc that shows up as a 5 button is actually the 6 button keypadlinc.

 

To remove the device from the ISY right click on it then click on DELETE.  It's strange that it installed as a 5 button unless it was previously configured as a 6 button KPL. Is this a new KPL or a used KPL?

 

(The 8 button and 6 button KPL's can be reconfigured to either 6 or 8 buttons).

 

You should probably do a factory reset on the KPL before you reinstall it. 

[paulbates]

It somehow got set in the other mode. 5 button is another way to refer to a 6, since in a 6 button, top is on, bottom is off. You can use this procedure to change it to 8 button mode.

 

1) Delete the keypad from the ISY.

2) Gently pull the Set button out as far as it will go

3) Wait 10 seconds

4) While simultaneously holding the On/Off (upper left-most) A button and the H button, carefully press the Set button back in flush with the trim frame

5) Once the Set button is pushed in, continue holding the On/Off button and H buttons for 3 seconds, and then release KeypadLinc will (Beep) KeypadLinc is now in 8 Button Mode

6) Re-add the keypad to your ISY

 

Paul

[epete]

OK, I figured out how to remove, but for some reason the 2334-232 

INSTEON REMOTE CONTROL DIMMER KEYPAD, 8-BUTTON - WHITE

 keeps linking as a 5 scene device

[epete]

ah, it was a refurbished keypad from Sharthome.com.  Maybe I got the wrong device with the plastic buttons for the 8?

[epete]

OK, I did the reset.  In step 5, the keypad link beeped after 3 seconds before I released the [On/Off] + [H].  I assume I was doing it correct.  Adding it back and it still says 2334-2 Dimmer 5 buttons V43 

[epete]

ok, in step 4 I was pressing the set button al the way, it should be just flush.  I have successfully reset it to an 8 scene device.  Thank You for pushing me in the right direction.

[epete]

I am trying to replicate the Keypadlink with my fan using the instructions here

http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/8205-programming-fanlinc/

 

In my case I want to use the top 4 buttons for Fan High, Medium, Low, Off.  I wanted to use the bottom 4 buttons for other items such as garage door, fireplace, status of basement refrigerator door being closed (sometimes left open by kids)...

 

So I set the mode so that all buttons have toggle set to off.  The keypad now has the first two key lights on.  When I click on B, the light blinks for a few seconds and returns to fully lit.

 

I assume if I program the top 4 buttons using scenes as described in the above topic it the LEDs will fix themselves.

 

I wasnt sure what to do about the mutually exclusive option as I think the scene takes care of this.  I also assume button grouping should not be touched.

[stusviews]

Buttons never fix themselves. It sounds like B is still set to non-toggle on. How are you setting the button mode?

[epete]

Buttons never fix themselves. It sounds like B is still set to non-toggle on. How are you setting the button mode?

well, it was wishful thinking.  Thanks again.  I have them all set to non toggle.  I will change that, but isn't non toggle what I want?

[stusviews]

There's both non-toggle on and non-toggle off. Which are you setting the buttons to and how are you setting the mode?

[epete]

Alright, I must be missing some important concepts about the keypad link, scenes, responders and controllers.  

 

Under ISY, the Keypad Link shows as a device.  It seems I can change the toggle mode, grouping options and LED Brightness.  This is where I was setting the Toggle mode to All Non-Toggle off or all Toggle.  I would think I would want non toggle so a press of the button does not change a state but simply sends a signal to the proper scene to enable it.

 

I also see at the scene name level, I have slide controls for the controller button (On Level=100?), the responder buttons that I want to set the LED to off (On Level = 0?)

 

and the Fan Motor and the desired level defined by the controller button and what I want the controller button to do to the fan.  So if the controller button is Fan High, I want Fan Motor On Level to be set to high.

 

Correct?

 

But then if I go to the controller button in the Scene, I get the same options.  I see they did not follow what I set in the scene name level.  So I set these to the same, but I really don't know what the difference is.  I am definitely not understanding some concept here.

[stusviews]

Check not only the scene, but also each device in the scene.

[epete]

I am starting over.  I just cannot get it to work.

 

1.  I re-watched the ISY/Device Scene Config video

2.  I removed all links from my scenes

3.  I removed the keypadlink from ISY 

4.  Performed a factory reset on the keypadlink.   It went back to 6 button mode so I performed a 6 to 8 button mode reset

 

Question - I see most people using the 6 button keypad and using the A, B, C and D buttons.  I am using the 8 Button mode with A (on/off) B, C and D and not programming E, F, G or H yet.  I have the load wire on the keypad kink capped off and the fan has continuous power.  So I am just looking to use the A Key for an Insteon signal to the PLM Scene with no On/off Dimming on the load wire.  Is this a valid way to use the product or is this what is messing me up?

 

5.  I clicked on Link Management, Start Linking from the ISY Admin Console and pressed the keypadlink set button until it beeped.  The Admin Console found and added "2334-2 Dimmer 5 buttons V43" with 8 entries 29.21.0F.1, 29.21.0F.B, 29.21.0F.C, ..., 29.21.0F.H.  I want to use 1=High, B=Off, C=Med, D=Off

 

Question - What is the "2334-2 Dimmer 5 Buttons" KeypadLink?  Why do others get a 2586D KeypadLink dimmer?  Did I get the wrong device?

 

6.  I created a folder called Family Room and then created 4 scenes in that folder FR Fan High, FR Fan Low, FR Fan Medium, FR Fan off

7.  Highlighting the Keypad Links 29.21.0F.1 button and under Buttons Toggle Mode set all buttons "All Non Toggle" off

 

Questions - There seems to be three options Non-Toggle On, Non Toggle Off, Toggle.  What is the difference between the three?  I assume toggle means pressing a button changes the state of the button from on to off or off to on.  Does Non Toggle On mean it sends an on command every time you press the button and the non toggle off sends the off command every time you press the button?  When this button is set as a controller in a scene does any action trigger the scene?  So if I am in Toggle mode and I go from on to off or off to on, does that trigger the scene?  If I am in Non Toggle Off mode and I press the button and it sends an off signal, does that also trigger the scene?

 

How are the LED Backlights controlled?  It seems that in toggle mode, when going from off to on, the backlight turns on.  When going from on to off, the backlight goes off.  Correct?  I assumed adding a button as a responder in a scene is what allows me to control the key backlight.  Maybe this is only in Non Toggle Mode.

 

Mutually Exclusive - When selecting Button Grouping I assume I want Button 1, B, C and D to be Mutually exclusive.  If I were to configure this in the Button Grouping section there are 8 sections at the top.  One section for each button.  The button for each section seems to be the bold text button address at the top of the list in each section with a check box checked in DIM or Gray font.  The other button addresses are listed below with check boxes and are unchecked.  Is this where one would make teh buttons mutually exclusive?  Do I check the B, C and D under the 1 section; the 1, C and D under the B Section, ... and the 1, B and C under the D Section then ignore the E through H sections?  When doing so, it warns me that I can mess up a scene so I have always canceled out but wondered what this was for. 

 

I also see the Mutually Exclusive Button tree at the bottom listing all 8 buttons and what looks to be 4 Mutually exclusive button scenes.  I would really love to understand this screen?

 

I am stopping here and canceling out of the Grouping option.

 

I have not added any buttons as controllers or responders or any fan motor settings as responders yet as I want to make sure I am doing this correctly this time.

 

So what are my next steps?

 

 

 

 

[epete]

OK, I think I can proceed a bit more without messing things up

 

8.  I renamed KeypadLink Keys 1, B, C and D to 1=FR Fan High, B=FR Fan Off, C=FR Fan Med, D=FR Fan Low

9.  I highlighted Fan Motor, FR Fan High, FR Fan Off, FR Fan Med and FR Fan Low in the tree, right clicked and selected Add to Scene.  I choose the FR Fan High and Changed FR Fan High Button to Controller, left the rest as responders.

10. I repeated step 9 for Off, Med and Low making the Off, Med or Low keys as Controllers respectivly and leaving the others as responders.

11. I then went to the Scene Level for each of the 4 scenes to set the scene.

      a.  For High Fan Scene Motor set to high, FR Fan High Key On Level to 100, Ramp Rate 0.1S  All other keys On Level set to 0

      b.  For Off Fan Scene Motor set to off, FR Fan Off Key On Level to 100, Ramp Rate 0.1S  All other keys On Level set to 0

      c.  For Med Fan Scene Motor set to off, FR Fan Med Key On Level to 100, Ramp Rate 0.1S  All other keys On Level set to 0

      d.  For Low Fan Scene Motor set to off, FR Fan Low Key On Level to 100, Ramp Rate 0.1S  All other keys On Level set to 0

12. Then I went to the Controller Key in each scene and set the Fan Speed to the same setting as defined by the key name and scene.  

      a.  For High Fan Key Motor set to high, FR Fan High Key On Level to 100, Ramp Rate 0.1S  All other keys On Level set to 0

      b.  For Off Fan Scene Motor set to off, FR Fan Off Key Does not display so there is no action to set On Level to 100, All other keys On Level set to 0

      c.  For Med Fan Scene Motor set to off, FR Fan Med Key Does not display so there is no action to set On Level to 100, All other keys On Level set to 0

      d.  For Low Fan Scene Motor set to off, FR Fan Low Key Does not display so there is no action to set On Level to 100, All other keys On Level set to 0

 

At this point, I think I am done and will now test to see if it works.  I suspect it wont but crossing my fingers.

[epete]

Ok, works.  I guess it takes methodically going through each step.  Anyway, there are some questions above that I would still love answers to to help my understanding.  Now to try programming the bottom keys.

[LeeG]

"Questions - There seems to be three options Non-Toggle On, Non Toggle Off, Toggle.  What is the difference between the three?  I assume toggle means pressing a button changes the state of the button from on to off or off to on."

 

Yes 

 

"Does Non Toggle On mean it sends an on command every time you press the button and the non toggle off sends the off command every time you press the button? "

 

Yes

 

"When this button is set as a controller in a scene does any action trigger the scene?"

 

Yes

 

"So if I am in Toggle mode and I go from on to off or off to on, does that trigger the scene?"

 

Yes

 

"If I am in Non Toggle Off mode and I press the button and it sends an off signal, does that also trigger the scene?"

 

Yes

 

"How are the LED Backlights controlled?"

 

Add the KPL button as a responder in a Scene.   Turn Scene On/Off to turn KPL backight On/Off

 

 

"It seems that in toggle mode, when going from off to on, the backlight turns on.  When going from on to off, the backlight goes off.  Correct? "

 

Yes

 

"I assumed adding a button as a responder in a scene is what allows me to control the key backlight.""

 

Yes 

 

 

"Maybe this is only in Non Toggle Mode."

 

Turning backlight ON/Off has nothing to do toggle/non-toggle mode

 

"Mutually Exclusive - "

 

Never use this function.   Everything should be done with Scenes.

[stusviews]

All KPLs can be configured as 6-button (5 scenes) or 8-button (8 scenes). But no matter which mode you set the KPL to, the ISY will report the native name of the device.

[epete]

Wow, thanks for the answers.  This is so helpful.

[epete]

...So, Insteon must have mised up my plates on my first two refurbished KPLs.  I purchased one 8 key and one 6 key.  Above you see I had trouble with my my 8 button kpl coming up as a 6 button device.  Thanks to all I got the first changed from 6 to 8.  Now I need this second 8 button converted to 6.

 

I see the instructions are the same, with the exception they say to put the 6 plastic buttons on first.  then they say to pul out the setting button for 10S and then press+hold the On+off buttons while pressing teh settings button fush to the frame and hold the on+0ff for 3 sec.

 

So my first question is

 

What is the on and off buttons.  Since it is in 8 button mode with the on button covering two A+B and the off covering G+H, are they saying it doesn't matter? 

I have tried multiple combos of this and the ISY keeps linking with 8 keys

Given the instructions going from 8 to 6 is the same as 6 to 8 I am assuming If I did this twice it should end up back to the 8 key device.

[Techman]

 

So my first question is

 

What is the on and off buttons.  Since it is in 8 button mode with the on button covering two A+B and the off covering G+H, are they saying it doesn't matter? 

I have tried multiple combos of this and the ISY keeps linking with 8 keys

Given the instructions going from 8 to 6 is the same as 6 to 8 I am assuming If I did this twice it should end up back to the 8 key device.

 

The on and off buttons will be the two large buttons at the top and bottom of the KPL. You'll need to change the buttons to the 6 button format first.

 

 

[epete]

Thanks Techman!  I just got off the phone with Insteon.  My problem was that I wasn't firmly holding teh On/Off Buttons and in order for this to reset to a 6 button device, both the left and right sides of the on and off buttons need to be pressed.

[Techman]

Thanks Techman!  I just got off the phone with Insteon.  My problem was that I wasn't firmly holding teh On/Off Buttons and in order for this to reset to a 6 button device, both the left and right sides of the on and off buttons need to be pressed.

 

It's easier if you first change the buttons to a 6 button format, only one button to push instead of two. Glad you got it resolved.

[stusviews]

Which faceplate is on the KPL now?

[epete]

I had the 6 buttons on.  All working now