aLf Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I have had my ISY setup for a couple years. Until today, my basic programs, scenes and links have worked as advertised. Tonight I manually turned on a SWL that is used very little (6 or 7 times). I forgot to turn it off and about an hour later, the Mrs. asked me what light was on outside. I told her it was that particular SWL, she said no I'm talking about another light on the other side of the house. I was shocked to find a completely different light on. I turned off the first forgotten light and to my surprise, the second one went out as well. I figured that it was simply an error link setup when I installed ISY and expected to see light #2 as a responder to #1. There are no links between the two anywhere. Their only mutual relation is through and "All off" scene I have setup. If I turn on #1, #2 responds. It does not work backwards. Again, I have checked for any links. Anyone have any ideas? aLf Link to comment
rhughes Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 It looks as if you have an old link that the ISY doesn't know about. If you do a Restore Device (from the right mouse button drop-down) for each of the devices then the problem will likely go away. You may want to do a factory reset on each device first. Randy Link to comment
upstatemike Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 alf- I have seen this situation as well but it is so intemittent that I have not been able to track it down yet. For me it is a couple of switches and lamplincs that come on by themselves.... not always together. sometmes just one of the lamplincs and other times just one of the switches. I have done many factory resets on all of them and also restored them and deleted and added them back to ISY but it still happens. Only common point is they are all controlled by the same ControLinc. If I ever figure out what causes it I'll let you know but so far I'm totally stumped. (I also have much bigger problems with local reporting across my whole system so I'm not chasing this one very aggressively). Link to comment
ulrick65 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I've not had many issues and definitely none like this, but couldn't you run the admin console and leave the event viewer up and see what is happening to pinpoint the problem? If nothing shows on the event viewer it is a good chance it is not ISY related I would think and then you could look at devices directly? Link to comment
aLf Posted January 1, 2009 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 Thanks guys. I have looked at the Admin and trigered the switch. The SW#2 does not show up as illuminating! I will try a restore device. Anybody else have any input, my ears are open. aLf Link to comment
upstatemike Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Thanks guys. I have looked at the Admin and trigered the switch. The SW#2 does not show up as illuminating! I will try a restore device. Anybody else have any input, my ears are open. aLf These are the same symptoms that I see. The correct links exist in the PLM, ISY, and Switch, but local operations never register in the GUI or event viewer. Other linked modules always activate reliable (so the switch is transmitting) and all other operations including query, restore, replace, and operation from the GUI controls, work perfectly. Link to comment
aLf Posted January 1, 2009 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 Just "Restored Device" on both SW's and no change. I'm stumped . Oh and by the way, the SW #2 that is coming on with #1 is a Togglelink. In addition, it is installed outdoors and is cold-COLD, zero or so. It is dry, but cold. It also has worked flawless for a couple years. I'm not sure if this problem has been a two year old problem or not as as I explained in the leader post, I hardly ever use either of these switches. Michel, any ideas? Regards, aLf Link to comment
MikeB Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 If you haven't, I would factory reset both devices and then do a restore device on both. If that does not work, I would remove them from the ISY, factory reset them, then add them back in and re-join them to scenes/programs as needed. Link to comment
Michel Kohanim Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Hi aLf, Wow, a strange one. You mentioned that you looked at the event viewer and you could not see traffic for SW2. Did you notice any X10 messages? At the moment, I must agree with Mike: Factory reset and then restore just SW2 (the one that turns on randomly). With kind regards, Michel Link to comment
aLf Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 No X10 traffic. Can you possibly do a ten second explain on the right way to factory resest. Then do I just restore with the ISY restore function that I just did? Thanks, aLf Link to comment
Michel Kohanim Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Hi aLf, First of all, it would be quite interesting if a device would - by itself - develop links to other devices. But, I've seen worse! Ok, factory reset: 1. Take the set button out and leave out for 10 seconds 2. Push and hold it in for 10 seconds Yes, please do restore with ISY and keep us posted. With kind regards, Michel No X10 traffic. Can you possibly do a ten second explain on the right way to factory resest. Then do I just restore with the ISY restore function that I just did? Thanks, aLf Link to comment
MikeB Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 One note, just in case - I don't believe you said if they were relays or dimmers, but I know that older SwitchLinc Relays, at least, had a different factory reset procedure: 1. Before resetting a SwitchLinc Relay that has been linked to an INSTEON Controller, be sure to unlink it from the Controller first. See Unlinking SwitchLinc Relay from an INSTEON Controller, above. 2. If you are using SwitchLinc Relay to control any INSTEON Devices other than the light it is wired to, unlink those Devices from SwitchLinc Relay. See Unlinking a Controlled INSTEON Device from SwitchLinc Relay, above. 3. Press and hold the Paddle Top for 10 seconds -- then release. 4. Tap the SET Button all the way in -- then release. 5. Push the SET Button all the way in and hold for 10 seconds -- then release. 6. A few seconds after you let up on the SET button, SwitchLinc Relay will turn the light it is wired to fully ON, indicating that the factory reset is complete. SwitchLinc Relay is now reset to all the default settings and ready for fresh programming and use. Double-check the manual for your exact device to be sure. Link to comment
aLf Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 Mike: SW#1 is a SWL Relay, the errant turn on is a ToggleLink dimmer. Michel reccomends resetting the ToggleLink. aLf Link to comment
IndyMike Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 alf, What type of device do you have connected to the SWL relay? There have been instances of noise sources making it through the filtering in the switches and activating them directly. I'm in the process of finishing my basement and have been using all manner of power tools. During that time my better half has noted several instances of lights coming on spontaneously. Each time that I have tried to track this down, the ISY showed no related communication (X10 or Insteon). Over the past few days my wife has gotten in the habit of informing me through the intercom when devices turn on spontaneously. By doing this I've been able to narrow the culprits down to a Porter Cable hammer drill, and a Bosch recip saw. Both tools are variable speed and double insulated (two wire connection to power). The twist is that I'm operating these on a completely separate 20A circuit in my basement. The noise generated by these tools is making it back through my electrical panel and affecting circuits on both phases (I suspect it's on the neutral). The message here is, if resetting your togglelinc doesn't work, try disconnecting the load from your SWL relay. If this eliminates the problem, there you may be able to filter the input to the load (depending on the type). IM Link to comment
MikeB Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Wow Mike, that's crazy! Do these devices have X10 addresses somehow associated with them? I'd like to think it's more likely that noise would resemble an X10 command than an Insteon one. Link to comment
aLf Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 Payton Manning Mike: I have the relay operating justa simple 100watt light bulb. I will try just unscrewing the bulb and see if that does anything. Will reset the switch too. aLf Link to comment
IndyMike Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 aLf, A 100W bulb should have no affect - if it does we're all in a world of hurt. Any other "linked" devices that may be operating inductive or capacitive loads? Link to comment
IndyMike Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 MikeB, Yep, I agree with the "crazy comment". My Wife was initially looking for "new" motion sensors that were triggering lights as she moved around the house. I'm innocent, by the way. I haven't added to or modified by configuration since July of last year. Last firmware update was for V2.6.12. No I2 modules installed. No X10 addresses assigned, and no evidence of X10 transmissions in either the ISY log or my Cm15a log. In my experience, the probability of a valid X10 transmission being generated purely from noise is extremely low. I have seen valid X10 transmission become corrupted by noise and "morph" into an unintended command or house/unit code. The problem here is that there is no valid communication to corrupt. The probability of an Insteon command being spontaneously generated by noise is far lower still. I suppose I could ask my Wife (math professor) to calculate the probability of generating valid Insteon addresses, flags, commands and CRC's, but I have to believe her response would not be polite. In the face of all those odds against this occurring - then phenomena is real. Since I don't have my signal analyzer handy, I'm chalking this up to noise directly affecting the PIC in certain switches. This is not the first time that this has been reported, it is the first time that I've experienced the problem. Rowland has a thread related to a noisy PC causing the same type of problems: http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?t=1188&highlight= I should have made it clear that I really am not looking for troubleshooting help with this activity. I don't intend to operate power tools in my basement long term (my workshop is on a dedicated filtered circuit). I'm offering this up as another possible cause for "spontaneous lighting" in systems where I2 is not being used. IM Wow Mike, that's crazy! Do these devices have X10 addresses somehow associated with them? I'd like to think it's more likely that noise would resemble an X10 command than an Insteon one. Link to comment
aLf Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 Thanks All! Just Factory reset the #2 Toggle, then restored device. Problem gone. All is well in northern Wisconsin again. aLf Link to comment
ulrick65 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Thanks All! Just Factory reset the #2 Toggle, then restored device. Problem gone. All is well in northern Wisconsin again. aLf Good to hear...but things are not "well" in northern wisconsin this time of year....I've been there, it's cold...very cold. Link to comment
aLf Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 Oh come on ulrick, the temperature has moderated. It's getting up to the teens now during the day! Been below zero almost all winter so far, this morning was 11. But come here in July and you won't want to leave. aLf Link to comment
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