kohai Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 Anybody ever try one of these? I googled this topic and saw Elk had a short page on it. http://www.gaswaterheatertimer.com/
stusviews Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 I use a Grundfos hot water recirculating system that includes a timer and provides immediate hot water as needed, too. I just use a smart switch. How do you use a smart switch to control a gas water heater?
Harvvm Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 I use a Grundfos hot water recirculating system that includes a timer and provides immediate hot water as needed, too. How do you use a smart switch to control a gas water heater? Just use the smart switch to power off/on the hot water heater as needed. I use an Aeotec smart switch and just schedule it via the ISY. Also have an Insteon leak sensor and a Zooz valve actuator to shut off water in case of a leak.
kohai Posted June 28, 2016 Author Posted June 28, 2016 In Utah we produce a lot of natural gas and the state regulates the price therefore it is pretty affordable for us. Therefore, in Utah everybody has gas water heaters... and furnaces.... and fireplaces.... I'm working on an Elk install for my mother's vacation home. It would be slick if I could turn up the temperature (e.g. gas) on the water heaters when the alarm is turned off (on arrival) and do the inverse when people leave and set the alarm. I'm also contemplating the Elk whole-house water turn off valve to be triggered the same way. It looks like the Elk relies on z-wave/isy/something-else to trigger this device.
kohai Posted June 28, 2016 Author Posted June 28, 2016 Just use the smart switch to power off/on the hot water heater as needed. I use an Aeotec smart switch and just schedule it via the ISY. Also have an Insteon leak sensor and a Zooz valve actuator to shut off water in case of a leak. But the temperature setting is a mechanical device on the gas line and it isn't controlled by electricity. I think that's what this device is overcoming -- something to physically turn the gas level down. A review with some details: http://www.stevejenkins.com/blog/2014/06/product-review-save-money-with-a-gas-water-heater-timer/
larryllix Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 Interesting thing is, I know of a few cases of gas, and electric, water heaters being turned off while occupants were away for a week on vacation. Forgetting the water heater was turned off, the people relaying the stories, returned home after a week, and had a hot shower wondering why the water was not very hot before they remembered it was turned off. My neighbour expereienced the opposite with his electric water heater using an instat hot water circ pump though. He just switched to gas now. Turning your gas off, and pilot flame, on water heaters that are not designed for it, can speed up your burner, and other parts, to rust out from moisture build-up, that the heater is not designed to handle.
kohai Posted June 28, 2016 Author Posted June 28, 2016 It looks like this device lets you select the low setting and the "normal" or high setting. It looks like it always has a pilot.
stusviews Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 Info: Gas water heater flames turn on only when the water in the tank cools down. Using hat water is one reason, heat loss to ambient temperature is another. Cold weather causes most of the loss. If you tank is insulated, then heat loss is minimal. BTW, hot water heater blankets are available.
Harvvm Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 But the temperature setting is a mechanical device on the gas line and it isn't controlled by electricity. I think that's what this device is overcoming -- something to physically turn the gas level down. A review with some details: http://www.stevejenkins.com/blog/2014/06/product-review-save-money-with-a-gas-water-heater-timer/ Mine is controlled electronically and maintins its last setting on power outage. If we are away for a few days I schedule it to power on a few hours before returning or just do it remotely. I always keep it set at 120. It's a 50 gal so we always have plenty of hot water.
stusviews Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 Mine is controlled electronically and maintins its last setting on power outage. If we are away for a few days I schedule it to power on a few hours before returning or just do it remotely. I always keep it set at 120. It's a 50 gal so we always have plenty of hot water. Which specific gas hot water heater?
larryllix Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 We don't want to turn our hot water heaters down below 120F, due to Legionella bacteria deaths in the past. Electrical water heaters can be notorious for Legionella build up, below the lower heater element, where colder water pockets can exist. This is less possible with flames under the bottom of the tank. http://www.cdc.gov/legionella/about/causes-transmission.html
stusviews Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 OK, I'm almost convinced, I've already added electric inside my water heater enclosure for the recirculating system. Major impediment for me. I won't provide my CC # if I don't know the total amount first.
Teken Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 After watching the video and reading their on line FAQ and the 3rd party review. This product seems to be very solid and offers those with a NG dial hot water tank a direct method to automate said appliance. I am however unclear about the potential savings of this device because as others mentioned. The HWT does not call for heat until a preset internal temperature has been met. So one has to ask the following question(s) because all of these elements impact the over all cost and efficiency of the appliance. 1. How old is the HWT? 2. Is the HWT Energy Star rated? 3. How well insulated is said HWT which (IF) its Energy Star rated would offer more insight? 4. What do you pay for NG now vs electricity? 5. Have people considered that depending upon all of the above turning off the HWT for more than 4-12 hours could very well cost you more due to the fact the tank now has to reheat an entire cold tank? 6. One must know and be able to measure the internal tank temperature and compare how many times the HWT calls for heat when idle. This is the only direct and reliable method to factually determine if changes to heat set points and removal of power will in fact save you money in the long run. NOTE: I have been in Alpha / Beta trials for more than a year with a fine company that offers similar but different methods to track, hot water consumption, energy costs, energy loss, internal temperature, leak detection, scheduling, remote control, and data aggregation. Some basic facts I learned along the way and hope this information proves helpful to others interested in the very same. - It makes no sense in the long run to hobble any appliance older than 10 years old. Get rid of it and purchase a brand new unit which meets or exceeds the Energy Star ratings. The amount of insulation, efficiency, and total annual consumption costs simply can not be beat. - If savings are truly what you're after consider installing a instant hot water tank for the home. - Regardless of the technology, type, style, of HWT user habits play a larger role in the daily, monthly, yearly costs. Meaning if you don't change your habits all the technology in the world won't make a difference. If you don't use proven technology like cold wash detergents, front loading washer, slow flow facets and shower heads. Never mind limiting how many baths you take instead of a shower - you will never save a dime. - If your intent is to save on energy costs you must change your personal habits. There is no other method besides doing solar heating which really is the best method to have plenty of hot water and virtually reduces your HWT costs from 45 - 75%!
jamestaylor Posted July 16, 2016 Posted July 16, 2016 No, I didn't try. Also, I think tankless water heaters are more efficient and can save fuel costs.
larryllix Posted July 16, 2016 Posted July 16, 2016 I just finished installing my third thankless water heater, this year, in the eight years I have been in this house. The venting costs more that the water heater does, for some brands. Each install cost somewhere around the $2k-$3K mark. I saved some gas using two 80% efficient units and now a 93% efficient condensing unit, but the energy to create all that waste may outweigh the ecological benefits of any energy saved, in my heating usage. There may have been no financial gain, either. We have to be careful how we buy into the latest fads.
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