Shunt Capacitors, LED Bulbs, and Keypadlincs

[matapan]

I noticed that the newer Keypadlinc Dimmers and possibly Switchlincs Dimmers will flicker when a set of LED bulbs are installed on the circuit. This is a frequently discussed topic by people who adopted Insteon products and have started to migrate to LED's as incandescent bulbs are mandated to be phased out.

 

In talking to an electrician in my area specializing in custom A/V work that also installs Lutron products, he told me that he installs shunt capacitors supplied by Lutron whenever he encounters flickering issues with Lutron dimmers and LED bulbs. 

 

Will these shunt capacitors work in Insteon installations where users experience LED flicker in their dimmer circuits? If any other Insteon users have tried this out, I'd like to hear their experiences with this. 

[Techman]

I noticed that the newer Keypadlinc Dimmers and possibly Switchlincs Dimmers will flicker when a set of LED bulbs are installed on the circuit. This is a frequently discussed topic by people who adopted Insteon products and have started to migrate to LED's as incandescent bulbs are mandated to be phased out.

 

In talking to an electrician in my area specializing in custom A/V work that also installs Lutron products, he told me that he installs shunt capacitors supplied by Lutron whenever he encounters flickering issues with Lutron dimmers and LED bulbs. 

 

Will these shunt capacitors work in Insteon installations where users experience LED flicker in their dimmer circuits? If any other Insteon users have tried this out, I'd like to hear their experiences with this. 

 

A lot of us use LED bulbs with the Insteon devices and have no issues with flicker. There should be no need to modify the product.

 

Make sure the LED bulbs you're using are dimmable.

 

Which brand and wattage LED bulbs are you having problems with?

[Joe]

These LED bulbs from Philips work great with my insteon dimmer switches (2477D) and fanlincs (2475F). They dimly turn on at 1% dim and incrementally brighten across the range from 1% to 100% brightness. They exhibit no buzz, hum, or flickering at any brightness (dim) setting.

 

brand: Philips

model: 9290011741 (back of package - see photo) 

amazon link (4 pack): http://a.co/hj3JKoK

homedepot link (4 pack): http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-100W-Equivalent-Soft-White-Household-A21-Dimmable-LED-with-Warm-Glow-Light-Effect-Light-Bulb-4-Pack-459107/206517168

 

[Brian H]

I tried to find the value of the Lutron AC Power Line Rated capacitors. With no luck.

 

I suspect the capacitors may mess up the Insteon Power Line commands when On. As the capacitors would appear across the AC thorough the module.

Or maybe make the module unstable if it was not designed for extra capacitance across the Load to Neutral.

 

Do you know if the Lutron switches the vendor was using the capacitors with, uses power line signals for controlling them?

[giesen]

I too can vouch for those Philips bulbs. Other than one that burned out on me, they dim flawlessly for me with no hum or flicker, and they give a nice warm glow as you dim them lower, just like incandescent bulbs.

 

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

[larryllix]

I had another Cree bulb go defective n me last week. T0 be fair I wasn't exercising it properly, just sitting in a box, but when I tried to install it the count increased. I think that has to be about 8 out of the 15 I have owned that has gone defective.

 

This one was really strange. It would glow and after turning it off and unscrewing it, it would still glow in my hand for another 30 seconds. Obviously the power supply was still good.

 

I have noticed Home Depot, here, has stopped selling CREE bulbs now. They still have a few hidden on the clearance shelf for too much money.

[Techman]

I had another Cree bulb go defective n me last week. T0 be fair I wasn't exercising it properly, just sitting in a box, but when I tried to install it the count increased. I think that has to be about 8 out of the 15 I have owned that has gone defective.

 

This one was really strange. It would glow and after turning it off and unscrewing it, it would still glow in my hand for another 30 seconds. Obviously the power supply was still good.

 

I have noticed Home Depot, here, has stopped selling CREE bulbs now. They still have a few hidden on the clearance shelf for too much money.

 

I've had good luck with the Cree bulbs, not one failure and I've got a lot of them in service. I wonder if the bulbs sold in Canada are made in a different factory than the bulbs sold in the U.S..

Costco, which used to stock a large quantity of LED bulbs now only carries a few. Given the long life span of the bulb I guess the demand has dropped off.

[Brian H]

I had some of the early Cree LED bulbs and most of them failed.

Could have been a push to manufacturer them. As I even had one with a piece of a broken glass shell. Inside the bulbs shell.

The glue use to dry out and I had a few where the shell just fell off .

Others flickered and died. Found bad spring clip contacts between the driver board and the LED board. Actually has small burned pits on the boards.

Mine where assembled in the USA Cree factory.

I trashed all of mine.

[larryllix]

I have replaced many of my orignals with new versions of the Cree bulbs. Now I have three different versions of the same ratings.

 

Obviously Cree had some problems with two of the versions I have had, to replace the original design at least twice. Troube is when you replace one bulb in a chandelier or five bulbs the dimming curves don't match. This tells me they changed their circuitry and possibly their manufacturer of the bulbs they put their name on.

 

The latest style is the one with the vents in it. Just what we need (sarc), a lightbulb that gathers dust inside without any cleaning access.

 

The one that hurts the most is a flood light that cost me about $35 and takes 3-4 seconds to come on.

 

Cree also pulled the warranty cop-out. I could always send the bulbs back for manufacturer's warranty with the original receipt and $50 worth of shipping, or I could spend another $3 on each replacement and get more reliable bulbs.

 

I visited a few Costco's on my trip through southern states and didn't see any Cree bulbs there, at all. Feit, which seems to be the same bulbs sold in Canada at Costco under the brand Luminus (ComGlom importer)

[paulbates]

Knock on wood, most of mine went in 5 years ago and I still have them all. Ecobrights mostly and some cree

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Randall Grogan]

I noticed that the newer Keypadlinc Dimmers and possibly Switchlincs Dimmers will flicker when a set of LED bulbs are installed on the circuit. This is a frequently discussed topic by people who adopted Insteon products and have started to migrate to LED's as incandescent bulbs are mandated to be phased out.

 

In talking to an electrician in my area specializing in custom A/V work that also installs Lutron products, he told me that he installs shunt capacitors supplied by Lutron whenever he encounters flickering issues with Lutron dimmers and LED bulbs.

 

Will these shunt capacitors work in Insteon installations where users experience LED flicker in their dimmer circuits? If any other Insteon users have tried this out, I'd like to hear their experiences with this.

I have had the same issue with a series of Cree based recessed lights controlled by a new Dual Band Insteon dimmer in several rooms. The lights flicker when commands are issued to other devices on the same circuit.

 

Note to others posting to this thread.... this is NOT an issue with the lights flickering when dimming. The issue is that they spike brightly whenever an Insteon command is issued for other devices on the same circuit.

 

OP, do you know if the shunt capacitor is installed on the power or load side of the Insteon dimmer switch?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Randall Grogan]

I have had the same issue with a series of Cree based recessed lights controlled by a new Dual Band Insteon dimmer in several rooms. The lights flicker when commands are issued to other devices on the same circuit.

 

Note to others posting to this thread.... this is NOT an issue with the lights flickering when dimming. The issue is that they spike brightly whenever an Insteon command is issued for other devices on the same circuit.

 

OP, do you know if the shunt capacitor is installed on the power or load side of the Insteon dimmer switch?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I didn't find a source for the Lurton version, but did find a source for Leviton. I may purchase one and see if it helps.

 

https://store.leviton.com/products/shunt-capacitor-0-47uf-shunt-047?variant=30104254531

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Brian H]

The Lutron installation sheets. Show their Shunt Capacitor installed in the fixture across the load itself. 

Used with their dimmer switches that do not use a Neutral Power connection and get power through the Load.

 

So I would say try from the SwitchLinc Load and Neutral connections.

 

I would also suspect the capacitor may kill the Insteon power line commands when On. As it would then be across the Line to Neutral through the module.

 

There are more than one value Leviton Shunt Capacitor. I have seen a .1uF and the .47uF you found.

https://store.leviton.com/products/shunt-capacitor-0-10uf-shunt-001?variant=30104231939

[mmb]

These LED bulbs from Philips work great with my insteon dimmer switches (2477D) and fanlincs (2475F). They dimly turn on at 1% dim and incrementally brighten across the range from 1% to 100% brightness. They exhibit no buzz, hum, or flickering at any brightness (dim) setting.

 

brand: Philips

model: 9290011741 (back of package - see photo) 

amazon link (4 pack): http://a.co/hj3JKoK

homedepot link (4 pack): http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-100W-Equivalent-Soft-White-Household-A21-Dimmable-LED-with-Warm-Glow-Light-Effect-Light-Bulb-4-Pack-459107/206517168

I tried those 100W Phillips LED bulbs with a insteon dimmer plugin module.  You're correct they can dim to 1% but I couldn't turn them off (0%).  An older Phillips LED worked fine. Not sure what the problem was...

 

ps. I reported the problem in another thread.

[danbutter]

Anybody try this?

I installed some super thin led fixtures and the dual band dimmer doesn't work well. Turning on it flickers like a strobe for a couple seconds and then it calms down and is fine.

[Brian H]

12 hours ago, danbutter said:

Anybody try this?

I installed some super thin led fixtures and the dual band dimmer doesn't work well. Turning on it flickers like a strobe for a couple seconds and then it calms down and is fine.

The super thin LED fixtures are rated to be on a dimmer?

Do you have the manufacturers part number. Possible if we see the specification it may give some clues to a answer.

 

[danbutter]

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Lighting-Wafer-6-in-White-Integrated-LED-Recessed-Kit-WF6-LED-30K-WINGSTACK/302576652

 

This is it.  It says new on the shelf in store, but who knows.  Works great with a Lutron DL-600PL: http://a.co/0JQBjDS

It will strobe for a bit and then be ok at higher dim levels. Then I can dim down to 15%, but once I go to 10% it starts flashing and won't stop until I get it back up to about 80% again.

Had the same issue with other insteon dimmers.  I guess at the lower dim levels there just isn't enough load on the switch.

I have four of these in the circuit.  I have another section on a separate switch where I'll have six of these. Maybe that one will work better.

[danbutter]

I added one of these philips bulbs to each circuit (one with 6 and one with 4) and both dim fine now.

https://www.usa.philips.com/c-p/046677433147/slimstyle-a19

Also tried an incandescent bulb and the same thing happened.