How Many Programs?

[zerop]

I started a thread with this topic over 2 years ago but it's archived and I can't keep it going.  Two years ago I was questioning if 195 programs was a lot.  Today I have 813 programs, 274 network resources and 195 variables.

 

How about you?

[G W]

Maybe 30.

 

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[oberkc]

Around 50 programs (maybe a few more), 10 network resources, and a half-dozen variables. 

[stusviews]

About 180 programs, 72 resources, 12 variables, 4 portal accounts.

[TrojanHorse]

I feel I need to clean up my ISY here...

 

~200+ programs

40 variables

25 resources

 

 

 

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[zerop]

How do you all get away with so few programs?  Am I just doing a lot with my ISY or am I doing it wrong?

[Scottmichaelj]

How do you all get away with so few programs? Am I just doing a lot with my ISY or am I doing it wrong?

If you have to ask then your probably doing it wrong jk

[mwester]

Good question.

 

First, I don't think it's a matter of it being "right" or "wrong", just a matter of preference and situation.

 

I have very few programs, and work hard to eliminate them where-ever possible -- my preference, and my situation, suggest that I use Insteon scenes whereever I can instead of programs.  Basically, I've already had two PLM failures, and have constant noise-induced issues with Insteon devices, which when combined with the fact that I am often on-the-road for business leaving my family behind to deal with any ISY/Insteon issues make me very much unwilling to depend on the ISY's programs for correct operation of anything.  So the ISY *augments*, which generally leaves a relatively small number of "helper" programs.

 

You may have a different situation, where reliance on the PLM and the ISY makes more sense.

[oberkc]

Like mwester, I also use a lot of scenes. I also take it as a personal challenge to minimize the number of programs to accomplish a given task. My general impression, also, is that many use variables in cases where I would not find the need to do so.

 

Still, i suspect the difference in the number of programs is due to the relative complexity of what each of us is trying to accomplish. I dont use moisture sensors. I dont attempt to automate bathroom fans with insteon. I dont use the isy to control thermostats or TVs. I dont use the portal or the echo.

[larryllix]

I have

340 programs, I control multiple heating stats, hRV, record oeprations inside ISY, security, and lighting

 

297 Integer variables, I use banks of them for constants

 

90 State variables, try to keep them to a minimum for CPU load

 

50 Network resources, mostly for RGBW LEDs and bulbs

 

39 Notifications

 

15 Scenes, I avoid scenes as much as possibe. I don't see the point and I believe in ALL ON or ALL OFF phantom events, rather they are phantom Scene triggers. ALL ON/OFFs do not dim and scenes do not record in ISY.

[lilyoyo1]

 

15 Scenes, I avoid scenes as much as possibe. I don't see the point and I believe in ALL ON or ALL OFF phantom events, rather they are phantom Scene triggers. ALL ON/OFFs do not dim and scenes do not record in ISY.

 

I'm the exact opposite. I use scenes for almost everything. Anything larger than 10-15 devices, I will create a scene with everything set to be a responder and write a program based on the trigger (whatever button I want to push)

[ggdowski]

I would say you have 195 if statements.

 

 

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[MikeD]

109 active programs

 

24 Scenes

 

42 Integer, 24 State variables

 

95 Network resources

 

14 Notifications

 

All this for 21 Insteon and 14 Z-Wave devices.

 

Nice to be retired.

 

[oberkc]

All this for 21 Insteon and 14 Z-Wave devices.

 

 Your 95 network resources are for insteon and z-wave devices?   Tell me more.

[BigMoose1]

539 programs

117 integer and 17 state variables

60 insteon devices.

 

All to support leak detectors, motion sensing, irrigation system, notifications, cameras and lighting programs while home and away.

 

I use at the most 8 scenes to control back lighting on 4-6 button switches. Also use network resources for web application and camera control.

 

Also retired and glad I found UDI as my replacement for x10. I have gotten a lot of support from this forum to educate me.

[MikeD]

Sorry, I forgot to count my Insteon remotes plus my leak and hidden door sensors that were in separate folders. I actually have 34 Insteon devices! 

 

I use Prowl to inform me via a network resource whenever any of the following is triggered:

 - Any exterior door is opened/closed.

 - My shed door is opened/closed or motion is detected in the shed.

 - My garage door is opened/closed.

 - Garage or shed doors left open for 10 minutes, repeated every 10 minutes until closed.

 - All actions of the Schlage lock on my front door.

   (17 separate network resources. (I have not tried variable substitution for user actions)

 - Low battery in any door sensor.

 - High or low temperature alerts for my two Z-Wave thermostats.

 - To play several announcements in my Aeotec doorbell. (Like a rooster call when my garage door is opened. )

 - When my automated blinds open at sunrise and close at sunset.

 - To activate / deactivate text alerts from Blue Iris when my interior cameras sense motion when I am not home.

 

And maybe a few other things I forgot to mention. 

[zerop]

Another year or so has past since I posted this and I'm now up to 1,163 programs (never mind folders and scenes).  I have my ISY doing many different tasks.  There is supposed to be a 1,000 program limit to the ISY.  I remember reading somewhere that that is no longer the case but the limit has something to do with memory.  Does anyone know?  I foresee a few more things to add and am wondering when I'll reach the limit of the ISY and what will happen when I do.

[paulbates]

Its hard to nail that specifically. The 1000 was a general guideline, not a hard limit for the ISY Pro. Programs can be different sizes.. so its not a hard program # limit but rather when you exhaust memory. That's contributed to by anything you create/configure with the ISY.. programs, variables, network resources, web content, notifications, ISY Modules and Nodeservers (etc.) 

Another factor is the the number of events driving programs to run could overwhelm the ISY's processor's ability to perform as expected, even if memory is not exceeded. Symptoms would be long start times for the Admin Console, or ISY performance is not what's expected.

Here is some info

• Query your ISY's memory use
  • Use telnet (not SSH) to access your ISY locally. 
  • Type SM
  • The first line will look like this, free heap space is what memory you have left:

    Static = 262144 used, Heap = 1114112 free, Total = 1376256

  • My sense of danger would kick in if that Heap number was less than 20,000, but maybe Michel or Chris can suggest another number

• https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:Replacing/Formatting_an_SD_Card

Paul

[zerop]

Thanks for that.

It shows Static = 262,144 used, Heap = 1,060,864 free, Total = 1,323,008

So, even with over 1,100 programs it looks like I'm not doing too bad.  It does take a good 2-3 minutes to load the programs tab of the admin console though.

After the info listed above there are columns of other numbers, what do they mean?

Size: Total, Current Free, Current Used, High Used

600: 1034, 748, 286, 286

197: 4, 2, 2, 2

106: 270, 270, 0, 2

etc.

There are 21 rows of numbers.

[paulbates]

I think in the past I've seen threads on those lines but don't have the links.  

I was pretty sure about how to interpret the heap, but now not so sure. I have ~ 1/10th the number of programs you have and my results are fairly close about the same. Maybe @Michel Kohanim or @Chris Jahn could provide better insight here

Paul

[larryllix]

Like most interpreter/compilers these days, the programs will be tokenised and not take much space at all, especially in this day and age where the kBytes term is seldom heard anymore, and MBytes are like crumbs on the floor.

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[Michel Kohanim]

Hi zerop,

Unlike computers, ISY's memory manager is designed in blocks that we can track. So, heap is rather meaningless in our case (just means available memory for stack) since we use blocks that are pre-allocated. So, you are doing fine.

With kind regards,
Michel