Whats Up with New Insteon Motion Sensor II

[apostolakisl]

I understand that SH has not released the "api" or whatever they call it to UDI.  

 

So, what does this mean?  Is it not supported at all or is there limited suppport?  

 

Basically, I am in the market for a couple of motion senosrs and I want to know if these are going to work at all.  The purpose is to look for room occupancy and if none is detected for a period of time, to shut down the AC.  I plan on having the motion sensor trigger a program with a wait of 45 minutes or so.  After 45 minutes, it will shut down the AC.  If it has motion, it re-triggers and starts the wait all over.  Just need to know that I can do this before buying them.

 

Thanks.

[Techman]

I understand that SH has not released the "api" or whatever they call it to UDI.  

 

So, what does this mean?  Is it not supported at all or is there limited suppport?  

 

Basically, I am in the market for a couple of motion senosrs and I want to know if these are going to work at all.  The purpose is to look for room occupancy and if none is detected for a period of time, to shut down the AC.  I plan on having the motion sensor trigger a program with a wait of 45 minutes or so.  After 45 minutes, it will shut down the AC.  If it has motion, it re-triggers and starts the wait all over.  Just need to know that I can do this before buying them.

 

Thanks.

 

UDI has marginal support (motion only)  for the sensor in firmware 4.6.2. It's supposed to be fully supported in the 5.x.x release. I would hold off buying them until they're fully supported.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Techman,

 

Just to be clear: the support for them in 5.x depends on the documentation from SH. We just do not have the resources to keep reverse engineering things.

 

With kind regards,
Michel

[Scottmichaelj]

I understand that SH has not released the "api" or whatever they call it to UDI.

 

So, what does this mean? Is it not supported at all or is there limited suppport?

 

Basically, I am in the market for a couple of motion senosrs and I want to know if these are going to work at all. The purpose is to look for room occupancy and if none is detected for a period of time, to shut down the AC. I plan on having the motion sensor trigger a program with a wait of 45 minutes or so. After 45 minutes, it will shut down the AC. If it has motion, it re-triggers and starts the wait all over. Just need to know that I can do this before buying them.

 

Thanks.

If you have ZWave, then IMHO a better motion would be the Multisensor 6 by Aeotec, which is supported by the ISY.

 

http://aeotec.com/z-wave-sensor

[Techman]

Hi Techman,

 

Just to be clear: the support for them in 5.x depends on the documentation from SH. We just do not have the resources to keep reverse engineering things.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Thanks for the clarification.  I'm hopeful that the new ownership will be more accommodating. I just found out that Smarthome is moving to a new location in Irvine, once they get settled in  maybe they'll be more open in working with developers.

[jasont]

If you have ZWave, then IMHO a better motion would be the Multisensor 6 by Aeotec, which is supported by the ISY.

 

http://aeotec.com/z-wave-sensor

 

 

I wish there was a Zwave sensor rated for outdoor use that was as highly recommended.  

[apostolakisl]

Is it safe to say that the motion detector works just fine if you are OK with the default settings?  In other words, the time out and the night only mode can't be changed from ISY?

[Michel Kohanim]

apostolakisl,

 

Yes that's correct.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[barrygordon]

I am using it on ISY994 4.6.2 to control an automated pocket door at the entrance to my theater. The only thing I use is the motion sensing. I do not care about the other features. When I get the time I will switch it over to run from a USB power unit so I don't have to be concerned with the battery. My Automation controller is a RPi 3 running my own Javascript code. It subscribes to the ISY so it gets notified when the 2842 senses motion.  It appears to be working reliably in that limited mode.

 

The program (script) in the RPi checks to see if the doors are open and if so disregards the notification.  If the doors are closed it opens the doors and sets a 15 second timer to close the doors again.

[502ss]

Hi Techman,

 

Just to be clear: the support for them in 5.x depends on the documentation from SH. We just do not have the resources to keep reverse engineering things.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

Does anyone else find it weird that UDI doesn't have access to the documentation for new products from SH? I wouldn't consider UDI just any 3rd party developer, Christ, SH sells the ISY bundled as a starter kit with their products, wouldn't that make UDI some sort of tier 1 partner or something? I really hope this is not the beginning of the end!

 

Michel - sorry to hear that this is a major hurdle for UDI. Hopefully things change! I have a ton of money invested in SH components and would hate to see things take a turn for the worse!

[jgcharlotte]

If you have ZWave, then IMHO a better motion would be the Multisensor 6 by Aeotec, which is supported by the ISY.

 

http://aeotec.com/z-wave-sensor

 

This sensor works well and you get the added benefit of temperature sensing and also light level, which is useful to control lights if the room is subject to outside light.  Also humidity, although I'm not sure how accurate it is.  I would recommend using it with a power supply as opposed to just the battery, though.

[Techman]

Does anyone else find it weird that UDI doesn't have access to the documentation for new products from SH? I wouldn't consider UDI just any 3rd party developer, Christ, SH sells the ISY bundled as a starter kit with their products, wouldn't that make UDI some sort of tier 1 partner or something? I really hope this is not the beginning of the end!

 

Michel - sorry to hear that this is a major hurdle for UDI. Hopefully things change! I have a ton of money invested in SH components and would hate to see things take a turn for the worse!

 

Smarthome was recently sold and they are in the process of transitioning.  It will probably be several months before we know exactly what direction they will be taking. . Hopefully the new owners will take a more open approach in reaching out to its developers and end users.

[mwester]

Does anyone else find it weird that UDI doesn't have access to the documentation for new products from SH?...

 

Yes.  So weird that one has to stretch a bit to come up with plausible explanations.

 

If we were wagering, my bet would be on the scenario where Smarthome/Smartlabs has no engineers on-staff that actually know the protocol or the devices any longer, and instead they have outsourced all that work to a subcontractor -- and probably that subcontractor also codes their hub -- and the icing on the cake is that the contract with the subcontractor was screwed up by someone such that Smarthome has to pay to get useful documentation on the API between the device and the hub.

 

The above theory/speculation also explains a lot of other behavior by Smarthome/Smartlabs regarding things like the PLM fiasco (they don't have anyone who understands electronics well enough to fix it), the FanLinc mess (their subcontractor found a way to shave a penny or two off the manufacturing cost, and Smarthome/Smartlabs has no engineers on-staff in charge of QA who caught that substitution), the Siren debacle (same as the new motion sensor - bad contract), and finally, the fact that there's been no further investments in the Insteon protocol (security, robustness, etc) for years as well as the recent sale of the company all fit into the narrative above.

 

My conclusion - I made a poor, very poor, choice with Insteon; it's a protocol that has no future.  I'm glad that UDI has opened things up with Z-Wave and the concept of "Node Servers"; that part of my investment is protected at least.

[BCreekDave]

Nothing in home automation seems very stable. No wonder most folks who are interested won't take the plunge.

http://www.cepro.com/article/sigma_designs_owner_of_z_wave_home_automation_tech_ponders_sale_or_divestme

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Scottmichaelj]

I am using it on ISY994 4.6.2 to control an automated pocket door at the entrance to my theater. The only thing I use is the motion sensing. I do not care about the other features.

All my point was, although the Aeotec sensor costs a little more theres more features, runs off power, is ZWave, as small or smaller than the Insteon, and works with UDI ISY. Worth the $10 more in my opinion. The downside is its not waterproof but neither is the Insteon. Thats all.

[paulbates]

Things have been in a state of flux for a few years, I doubt much relief is on the horizon. Realities for ISY users:

• If you have Insteon powerline control (switchlincs, keypads, lamp, iolinc, etc), those work and will be available and working on the ISY for years to come. I have 50+, their functional and work. I don't have the time, money or reason to swap out a perfectly working system.
• For items where the API is in flux, like the MS; the old one does the job as an MS. I'm going to stock a few extra (menards is closing the old ones out at discount)
• We're exposed on the things like sirens, new MS and analogue sensors. I think if you need those kinds of things, a zwave card and aeotec is in your future
• Node servers will open a big doorway, via developers or in the portal itself.

The beauty of the ISY is integration, and playing on the strengths of each technology.

 

Paul

[Techman]

RE: ISY and Motion Sensor II.  Just saw this post on the Smarthome website. Can anyone confirm this?

 

Smarthome Reply: You are able to add this device by Insteon ID number and instead of using Auto Discover, you would want to select the device option: [10.01] (2842-222) INSTEON Motion Sensor. This will allow the same functionality as the previous model 2842-222 Insteon Motion Sensor.

Posted on 6/28/2017

[stusviews]

RE: ISY and Motion Sensor II.  Just saw this post on the Smarthome website. Can anyone confirm this?

 

Smarthome Reply: You are able to add this device by Insteon ID number and instead of using Auto Discover, you would want to select the device option: [10.01] (2842-222) INSTEON Motion Sensor. This will allow the same functionality as the previous model 2842-222 Insteon Motion Sensor.

Posted on 6/28/2017

 

Tried that. Now the MS is not working at all (i.e., doesn't change state from Off except manually). Doesn't send off even though "On commands only" is unchecked. I might put more effort into this. Busy week ahead.

Edited July 31, 2017 by stusviews

[Techman]

Tried that. Now the MS is not working at all (i.e., doesn't change state from Off except manually). Doesn't send off even though "On commands only" is unchecked. I might put more effort into this. Busy week ahead.

 

Let me/us know if you make any progress.

[DonB]

I have one working as 2842-222.  Limited ability to change options, but senses motion just fine.  Luckily, I had an insteon hub, from back when Alexa had limited isy connectivity, sitting in a drawer .  I used it to adjust light sensitivity, delay, and other options.

 

stusviews -  try deleting it and relearning it.  Mine got a little flacky after adjusting it with the insteon hub.  I pulled the battery out of it for a few minutes, deleted it from isy, and relearned it.  It has been working very well since.

[apostolakisl]

I would do what DonB did.  Pick up an Insteon hub, they can be had for pretty cheap on ebay and just use it to configure the device.  Who knows, you might find other uses for the hub.  

[paob]

I spoke with Insteon and was very disappointed with their response on the sensor working with ISY. 

 

The Insteon folks are aware of the issue but they offer no solution.

 

I like the ISY product and the integration with Alexa but being dependant on Insteon PLM's as a single point of failure and now the seeming clueless-ness  of the Insteon team as to how/when their newest sensor will work with ISY is not a good thing.

 

[lilyoyo1]

Insteon and UDI are 2 different companies. They are no more aware of their plans as UDI is of theirs. That's like asking Michel what new products insteon will be coming out with.

[stusviews]

RE: ISY and Motion Sensor II.  Just saw this post on the Smarthome website. Can anyone confirm this?

 

Smarthome Reply: You are able to add this device by Insteon ID number and instead of using Auto Discover, you would want to select the device option: [10.01] (2842-222) INSTEON Motion Sensor. This will allow the same functionality as the previous model 2842-222 Insteon Motion Sensor.

Posted on 6/28/2017

 

Tried that. Now the MS is not working at all (i.e., doesn't change state from Off except manually). Doesn't send off even though "On commands only" is unchecked. I might put more effort into this. Busy week ahead.

 

stusviews -  try deleting it and relearning it.  Mine got a little flacky after adjusting it with the insteon hub.  I pulled the battery out of it for a few minutes, deleted it from isy, and relearned it.  It has been working very well since.

 

Deleted the new MS, factory reset, added it back using Link Management. Back to square one. I can change "ON only" so that an Off is sent. Unable to change the duration. I'll use the Hub to set the options. Did that with one other new MS and everything works as expected. In the interim, I'll stay with 4.6.2 until an improved v5+ is released, at least Beta.

[apostolakisl]

Insteon and UDI are 2 different companies. They are no more aware of their plans as UDI is of theirs. That's like asking Michel what new products insteon will be coming out with.

 

Yes and No.  It is not uncommon for two companies making complimentary products to have agreements.   Provided the products are complimentary and it doesn't involve monopolistic or otherwise illegal behavior one may give the other access to information and resources in return for specified things from the other.