Insteon and the future

[Teken]

I don't use the plugins so I can't say definitively what will happen. However, I do not see an issue with using them together as the frequencies are different.

 

I tried many types of outlets and the Cooper ones felt like a quality device. The GE and leviton ones feel like a cheap plastic toy. I like that the relay changing states was quieter and more solid feeling. Cooper outlets also support secure beaming which means it'll repeat signals to zwave door locks.

 

I use fibaro zwave sensors. Those were first chosen due to style but they have some great parameters that allow me to track things I never imagined. For example, the motion sensors have glass break sensors built in. Whether my alarm is active or not, I can use it to sense whether someone is breaking in. Granted they have to break the glass but it's better than nothing. Sense they also have tamper alarms, I can be alerted if one were to fall etc. While I don't have kids, if I did, I would know if they were trying to be sneaky and remove them.

The great eye sees all!!

 

 

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[TrojanHorse]

Very interesting discussion here with many good points raised. I won't comment on any technical details of different protocols, and my FutureView crystal ball is a bit fuzzy right now so I can't exactly tell the future. But,

 

I didn't want to wait for the future. I wanted something that worked really good right now. ISY and Insteon and Elk works very well for me and has exceeded my expectations. It's a very solid platform to do lots of home automation "stuff"

 

 

 

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[MrBill]

.....it dispelled some pre-conceived notions I've had about the relationship between Insteon/UDI/Smarthome. 

 

You put UDI in the middle....

 

* Smarthome/Smartlabs/Insteon = all the same thing, all the same company.

* UDI is a different entity.

 

At my prior residence I had a very old house with a very very large X-10 installation. A year ago I decided to build the system in my newer house on Insteon.  I don't regret that.  Insteon's 8 button keypad doesn't exist in the Z-wave world, and I probably have a dozen of them.  But then, I prefer pushing a convenient button to talking (i.e. Alexa).

 

That's a 180 turn for me. When Insteon first came out, I hated the look of the devices and vowed to never buy-in.  However, they normalized the look of the switches over time, and instead of mini and maxi controllers all over the house we now have universal remote controls known as Smartphones.

 

Smarthome is a 22 year old (well i say that, but I don't actually know--the smarthome.com domain was registered 2-25-1995 tho) company that used to enjoy being the only game in town.  Now tho, they have LOTS of competition, and Smarthome doesn't seem to be catching on to that fact.

 

I characterize Smarthome in general as being stuck in "Archaic mode".  They haven't adapted to the times and they don't quite know what's important.  An example is a recent transaction, I mis-ordered a 5-pack of switches (ordered 2477s, meant to order 2477d) during the July 4th 25% off sale.  I emailed Smarthome explaining what I did and asked for help getting the switches exchanged, I even stated I'm aware you'll charge me freight.   They said "no exchanges".   It took 2 months to resolve.  In the end, I returned the incorrect product which they didn't credit back to my card quickly and efficiently... in fact, I was days away from filing a credit card dispute when the credit finally came thru just days before Labor Day.  I also had to wait for the Labor Day sale to re-order the switches i needed.  All-in-all, I spent just over 2 months fixing my mistake and getting the correct product.

 

Amazon on the other hand would have made that whole process easy.  Amazon would have credited my card as soon as UPS scanned the return for the first time.  Amazon's prices are low everyday, I wouldn't have had to wait 2 months for another "holiday sale" to place my re-order.

 

Smarthome also doesn't have a uniform method of distributing the technical information that 3rd party companies, like UDI, need for 3rd party product engineering and support.

 

UDI on the other hand apparently is also experience something that I suppose for lack of better words can be characterized as "growing pains".  The critical area seems to be software dev.  The 5.0 alpha project is 2.25 years old at this point.   5.x development curbs continued work on 4.x, yet 5.x hasn't even made it to beta--and there is no apparent end in sight watching from where I sit.  If I was the only one that lived in my house I might choose to try out the 5.0 Alpha, however I choose to stay on the stable release because others use the system.

[apostolakisl]

 

 

UDI on the other hand apparently is also experience something that I suppose for lack of better words can be characterized as "growing pains".  The critical area seems to be software dev.  The 5.0 alpha project is 2.25 years old at this point.   5.x development curbs continued work on 4.x, yet 5.x hasn't even made it to beta--and there is no apparent end in sight watching from where I sit.  If I was the only one that lived in my house I might choose to try out the 5.0 Alpha, however I choose to stay on the stable release because others use the system.

 

If you are the least bit interested in playing around, I don't think you'll find any issues with 5.0.10.  The only problem I have with it is that programmatic device query triggers status programs (regardless of whether the status changed as a result of the query).  Also, if you have the weather module, you'l need to ask Michel for the 5.0.10E version.  I'm pretty sure any bug of significance is contained within the new features that shouldn't impact your current function.

[larryllix]

Agreeing with apostolakisl above, is the ISYcode you use and others depend on, out of alpha / beta? V5.0.10 should have never been labelled as "alpha"

 

In the same vein as your "Insteon/UDI/Smarthome" analysis......

You used the term "Smartphones" instead of "smart phones", as if android/Windows/iWool  mobile phones were another division of the Smarties corporate chain. Way too much credit given there  

[stusviews]

MrBill,

 

Smarhome is not Insteon. Smarthome is the retail outlet for Insteon products. In fact, Insteon did not even exist when Smarthome began selling HA products. Smarthome also sells Insteon competitors products as well as a host of other products both akin and not related to HA.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by, "they normalized the look of the switches over time." I've been buying Smarthome switches and keypads from the beginning when their branded devices were X10 compatible and their appearance is virtually identical to devices being sold today (the fitment of the KPL frame was inverted wrt/the set button).

 

On a personal note, I find it considerably easier to use my voice or even touch a button than to pull out a smart phone and have to tap, not once, but several times to get to the device I want to turn on. But, that's just me

[larryllix]

MrBill,

 

Smarhome is not Insteon. Smarthome is the retail outlet for Insteon products. In fact, Insteon did not even exist when Smarthome began selling HA products. Smarthome also sells Insteon competitors products as well as a host of other products both akin and not related to HA.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by, "they normalized the look of the switches over time." I've been buying Smarthome switches and keypads from the beginning when their branded devices were X10 compatible and their appearance is virtually identical to devices being sold today (the fitment of the KPL frame was inverted wrt/the set button).

 

On a personal note, I find it considerably easier to use my voice or even touch a button than to pull out a smart phone and have to tap, not once, but several times to get to the device I want to turn on. But, that's just me

You have always been vocal about certain things anyway but yes, vocal control has changed a lot for me too. I have two 4 button mini-remotes I haven't sen in a year now.

The batteries are probably completely dead now. Wife know many of the commands now after hearing me use them ( the beatings didn't work! )

 

_{ISY can make it happen!}

[Teken]

Just to be more accurate regarding Smarthome and their relations with Insteon. Smarthome was and has been the retail arm for more than 20 years. At some point Joe Dada created Smartlabs which is the parent company which develops Insteon products. Until recently both companies were owned and operated by Joe Dadda which has been sold to a 3rd party venture capitalist.

 

Regardless, Smartlabs needs to push forward in all key areas of: Global Adoption, Security, API Documentation, User Engagement, and R&D. 

[MrBill]

MrBill,

 

Smarhome is not Insteon. Smarthome is the retail outlet for Insteon products. In fact, Insteon did not even exist when Smarthome began selling HA products. Smarthome also sells Insteon competitors products as well as a host of other products both akin and not related to HA.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by, "they normalized the look of the switches over time." I've been buying Smarthome switches and keypads from the beginning when their branded devices were X10 compatible and their appearance is virtually identical to devices being sold today (the fitment of the KPL frame was inverted wrt/the set button).

 

On a personal note, I find it considerably easier to use my voice or even touch a button than to pull out a smart phone and have to tap, not once, but several times to get to the device I want to turn on. But, that's just me

 

Please see attached. 

 

Also go to https://www.networksolutions.com/whois/index.jsp and look up the domain registrations for both smarthome.com and insteon.com and compare what you see there. 

[Teken]

Just to be more accurate regarding Smarthome and their relations with Insteon. Smarthome was and has been the retail arm for more than 20 years. At some point Joe Dada created Smartlabs which is the parent company which develops Insteon products. Until recently both companies were owned and operated by Joe Dadda which has been sold to a 3rd party venture capitalist.

 

Regardless, Smartlabs needs to push forward in all key areas of: Global Adoption, Security, API Documentation, User Engagement, and R&D. 

 

 

Please see attached. 

 

Also go to https://www.networksolutions.com/whois/index.jsp and look up the domain registrations for both smarthome.com and insteon.com and compare what you see there. 

 

If people are generalizing then yes. But, if you're looking for accuracy Smarthome is not Insteon they are the retail portion of the Smartlabs entity. 

[MrBill]

If people are generalizing then yes. But, if you're looking for accuracy Smarthome is not Insteon they are the retail portion of the Smartlabs entity. 

 

 

I was definitely generalizing in the original context above yes.

 

All the same I quoted the exact information that I had on the subject because I was told my statement was incorrect.  I claim nothing more.

 

You put UDI in the middle....

 

* Smarthome/Smartlabs/Insteon = all the same thing, all the same company.

* UDI is a different entity.

 

[Teken]

I was definitely generalizing in the original context above yes.

 

All the same I quoted the exact information that I had on the subject because I was told my statement was incorrect.  I claim nothing more.

 

Understood, in the big scheme of things does it really matter to the general public?

 

No . . .

 

What should matter is the company is in good standing to keep moving forward to offer the best in class home automation products a consumer wants and needs. That involves using the best quality components, engaging 3rd party vendors to take on and integrate with their wares. Lastly, start engaging the general public as they did in the past which UDI, Brultech, Weather Flow, and many more do.

[apostolakisl]

It is common for a single business to split itself into separate companies on an official basis.  This serves a lot of purposes.  Things like taxes, international sales, venture capital, book-keeping, etc.

 

For example, in my work, I own the building in which my business resides.  I have these as two separate companies.  One is a real estate company, the other is my business.  

[giomania]

Just like McDonalds!

 

 

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[lilyoyo1]

Please see attached.

 

Also go to https://www.networksolutions.com/whois/index.jsp and look up the domain registrations for both smarthome.com and insteon.com and compare what you see there.

Philip is actually wrong in this case. The parent company is smartass. Smarthome is the retail side of things while Insteon is the product that smartlabs created.

[TrojanHorse]

Philip is actually wrong in this case. The parent company is smartass. Smarthome is the retail side of things while Insteon is the product that smartlabs created.

Smartass?

[stusviews]

Info only: Subsidiaries (businesses that have a parent company such as the relationship between Insteon Labs and Smarthome) are separate entities legally as opposed to divisions. In any case, ownership does not imply sameness, A person, group or syndicate can own many companies, each one independent from the others.

 

Learning is fun

[lilyoyo1]

Smartass?

[paulbates]

Lmao. Autocorrect is a mess. I guess I need to watch my language when I type.

You say auto-correct, I say fruedian-slip  

[stusviews]