Insteon and the future

[bcdavis75]

Apologies if this topic has been hashed out elsewhere.  I'd love to get some opinions (or pointed to other relevant discussions) regarding peoples thoughts on Insteon v. converting to zwave devices on the ISY.

 

The impetus for me is two-fold.  First, I have a lot of old dimmers/keypads 8-10years--some of these are beginning to fail.  It's not the failure itself that concerns me.  It's more the question of whether or not I should just replace them with Insteon dimmers or reconsider the options.

 

The second impetus was a discussion I stumbled onto in this forum regarding the new version of the Insteon Motion detector.  The discussion alarmed me becasue it dispelled some pre-conceived notions I've had about the relationship between Insteon/UDI/Smarthome.  The truth is, I've never fully understood the relationship but I'd assumed it was one of mutual proactive co-operation at the very least--maybe that's still the case.  But That particular topic didn't make it seem that way.    

 

Also, I haven't spent a lot of time in the V5 forum but I gather that a lot of the upgrades have to do with more fully implementing Zwave?

 

So it's entirely possible that these accumulated impressions causing me to question if I should be gradually, moving away from Insteon are totally misplaced.  I'm not nearly as informed as most of the folks in this forum.  So let me know your thoughts.  They are appreciated.

[giomania]

Here is my generic (possibly ignorant, ) take:

 

Insteon affords possibly better communication, due its dual-band nature?

 

My shields are up!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bcdavis75]

Here is my generic (possibly ignorant, ) take:

 

Insteon affords possibly better communication, due its dual-band nature?

 

My shields are up!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Oh no disagreement there.  I think what I was trying to get at is is there a valid concern that UDI and Insteon's interest may diverge and/or that Insteon will simply not be able to compete other ubiquitous platforms that, for whatever reason, have more name recognition and acceptance.  My preference (I think) would be to stick with Insteon products for exactly the reason you mentioned.

[paulbates]

For me its more about

• I have comm already worked out for a lot of older singleband devices and a few duals
• I haven't lost a lot of insteon devices in 10+ years, so I don't have a "business case" to swap out +50 things with no real payback.. a switch is a switch
• My family really likes and has adjusted to the keypad and its behaviors. Its given a lot 'virtual circuit' flexibility in our +60 year old home's very limited electrical system. There area few zwave keypad 'alikes' that remind me of the old Leviton 4 botton x10. Expensive, and not nearly as functional as the keypad.
• My answer to the motion sensor issue was to go to my local mendards and clean out there stock of gen 1 motion sensors. They do the job for me.

I hear what you're saying though. Its less about UDI and more about SH heading down the hub path. The hub is the razor for which they can sell a lot blades, if you remember that phrase. The implication is that the focus is on hub integration and the PLM is getting left behind. 

 

Paul

[Teken]

In my view having one unified protocol ensures tight integration in the home. While integrating a dual Insteon / Z-Wave protocol network offers more choices and hedges your bet on that investment over time.

 

The obvious advantage is your eggs aren't all in one basket.

 

I've blogged about all the pros and cons of each protocol here and in many other forums. While Smartlabs hasn't extended their reach to include more third party hardware vendors.

 

I can say they have continued to release one new piece of hardware almost each year. That can't be said for many of the Z-Wave camp. Many of the start up Z-Wave companies have already left and abandoned their wares which leaves the general public in a bind.

 

One of the key things I can't stand from the various Z-Wave / ZigBee makers is the dollar store look and feel of their products.

 

Regardless, the new guy who owns Smartlabs / Insteon has the opportunity to make Insteon a force to be reckon with. At this very moment their development team is in the toilet and those in the new role aren't showing me or others they have changed anything or learned from the past.

 

If the outsourcing to India is any indicator of things to come. Sadly, the new guy has no freaking clue what he is doing besides acting like any other bean counter.

 

Some of the greatest concepts and ideas have been killed off because management were out of touch with reality and what the general public wanted. Added to the fact they failed to capitalize on the strengths of the product / ideas. ☹️

 

I'll give the new guy more rope for 12 months. Just enough time for him to hang himself with it!!

[bcdavis75]

Some of the greatest concepts and ideas have been killed off because management were out of touch with reality and what the general public wanted. Added to the fact they failed to capitalize on the strengths of the product / ideas. ☹️

 

 

As one of the first owners of the Commodore Amiga... I know what you mean

 

Anyway... is fair to sum up you opinion by saying there's a lack of clear options at the moment and therefore, sticking with Insteon is not an inherently more risky option?

 

@paulbates 

 

The HUB was the other thing I forgot to mention.  Obviously that causes a long-term misalignment.  

[larryllix]

Apologies if this topic has been hashed out elsewhere.  I'd love to get some opinions (or pointed to other relevant discussions) regarding peoples thoughts on Insteon v. converting to zwave devices on the ISY.

 

The impetus for me is two-fold.  First, I have a lot of old dimmers/keypads 8-10years--some of these are beginning to fail.  It's not the failure itself that concerns me.  It's more the question of whether or not I should just replace them with Insteon dimmers or reconsider the options.

 

The second impetus was a discussion I stumbled onto in this forum regarding the new version of the Insteon Motion detector.  The discussion alarmed me becasue it dispelled some pre-conceived notions I've had about the relationship between Insteon/UDI/Smarthome.  The truth is, I've never fully understood the relationship but I'd assumed it was one of mutual proactive co-operation at the very least--maybe that's still the case.  But That particular topic didn't make it seem that way.    

 

Also, I haven't spent a lot of time in the V5 forum but I gather that a lot of the upgrades have to do with more fully implementing Zwave?

 

So it's entirely possible that these accumulated impressions causing me to question if I should be gradually, moving away from Insteon are totally misplaced.  I'm not nearly as informed as most of the folks in this forum.  So let me know your thoughts.  They are appreciated.

I have a query for clarification about your use of the phrase  (damn English ) "beginning to fail". Does this mean some have already failed...or ..some have started to function erratically?

 

Being in a similar position as you my take on it....and I am procrastinating way too much. I wouldn't go about replacing things that are working well but I would switch gears in the future. If nothing else having a Zwave option will ensure all your Insteon devices work forever. I thik the writing on the wall for the SH/UDI relationship is getting clearer as time passes. 

 

As a severe procrastinator, I will give it another year and then start the ZWave trail, but along side what I already have. OTOH, I have developed a lot into WiFi and Ethernet devices for coloured lighting. Then again Hue is ZigBee, So much for my Insteon purity.........*SIGH**

[Teken]

As one of the first owners of the Commodore Amiga... I know what you mean

 

Anyway... is fair to sum up you opinion by saying there's a lack of clear options at the moment and therefore, sticking with Insteon is not an inherently more risky option?

 

@paulbates 

 

The HUB was the other thing I forgot to mention.  Obviously that causes a long-term misalignment.  

 

I wouldn't say there aren't options quite the contrary there are lots of options from dozens of vendors who support X-10, Insteon, Z-Wave, ZigBee, WiFi, BLE. From a consumer stand point if someone was to ask me right this moment as to what I would purchase for a new HA System.

 

My question would be *Is this for the long term or is this just another fad* ?!?

 

There hasn't been a time in our history where there are more fly by night & fad products. The other problem I see is the lack of forethought or taking the time to do just the most basic research into HA. For me its not so much who's the cheapest vs who's the most expensive system out there. Its a combination of who has been around for a long time and has a proven track record of offering new products that meet the needs of the end user(s). Next, is how well supported this hardware is in terms of integrating with my eco-system.

 

I believe its safe to say the ISY Series Controller is the virtual glue that binds all of this together. 

 

Which highlights the fact and importance that having a solid and scale-able controller is of prime importance if Home Automation is the primary goal(s). There are too many *Look at me* controllers from Wink, Smartthings, to that POS product called Revolv which Google bought out. Everyday there seems another box store is coming out with their vary own Hub or eco system to enter the fray.

 

Think Staples Fail:  https://www.staples.com/sbd/cre/marketing/staples-connect-discontinued/

 

Think Revolv Fail: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/apr/05/revolv-devices-bricked-google-nest-smart-home

 

Think Wink Fail: https://www.gearbrain.com/home-depot-wink-pros-and-cons-1622025036.html

 

Think Ikea: https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/3/27/15071562/ikea-tradfri-smart-lights-gateway-ethernet-cheap-dimmer-remote

 

As of this writing there are several controllers which garner the most attention even though they are the worst. This high lights the very people buying said controllers have no freaking clue and did so because it was a fad and didn't look deeper. Who are these fad products which offer a half aszz'd experience?

 

Think: Apple Home Kit, Wink, Smartthings, Wemo . . .

 

The next crop of controllers offers more capability and has the backing of dozens of of 3rd party developers: Vera, Home Seer

 

We haven't even talked about the dozen or so software only platforms which can be installed into any PC.

 

Regardless of all of the above the biggest problem is the reliance on having a constant Internet cloud connection. If that isn't a complete and utter fail I don't know what is . . . To think people honestly think its OK to literally *Lease* a product they bought and own and have no control over the security or privacy of said controller?!?!

 

One only needs to look at the people who live in Texas / Florida where there is no power or infrastructure like Internet. I guess all of these fools are really enjoying their *Cloud Only Hub Controller* now!!!

 

Absent of a controller a Home Automation system should just work in a stand alone mode like any other switch in the home, period. There are too many silly and foolish people who have pushed the envelope of stupidity and removed local wiring and placed it at the fixtures / loads or ran them to a central location.

 

Wrong, Stupid, Have you lost your mind concept, is what any sane person would say . . .

 

The one area where Insteon needs to do better is updating their hardware to support true encryption as did the Z-Wave camp. Even with such a update this isn't the silver bullet to a secure HA network.

[apostolakisl]

My take is as follows:

 

1) The current Insteon devices are for the most part fully supported as is and thus whatever I currently own will be fine.

2) Other than PLM's and my very old original switchlincs that all had the failed tact switch, I have only had 2 insteon devices fail.  Many of my devices are the ones that got RMA'd back when I switched out the tact switch ones.  So they are getting old

3) Having put in a number of dual band switches and such, my comm is damn near perfect.

4) I like the look and feel of Insteon switches

 

So, I'm sticking with the Insteon ones.  But the option to go z-wave is always there.

 

EDIT: And more relevant, adding z-wave in no way requires removal of the Insteon.  I can implement as much or little as I want.  I currently have 1 z-wave device as a "proof of concept".  But I don't really like the look and feel of it.

[mwester]

My experience:

 

On the device side,

- Insteon as a protocol is stagnant -- there have been no enhancements to add or implement security, for example.

- Insteon's dual-band technology is flawed (i.e. the RF side becomes non-functional when the power-line side is suffering significant interference).

- Smarthome has ceased to be responsive to third-parties (unwilling or unable -- it's all the same in the end).

- Smarthome was recently sold and there's been no official statements on new direction yet.

 

From the technology point-of-view, it's pretty clear that switching power-supplies have replaced the transformer supplies almost completely.  Further, it's clear that the consumer is not willing to pay for devices that keep the power-line signal "clean" -- and neither UL nor the FCC care whether the power-line in your house is a sine-wave or is distorted by your LED lights, TV, phone chargers, etc.  The point is that communications over a power-line in the home is a technology that's simply no longer practical.  Oh, it might work -- technically a spark-gap transmitter can still be used to send Morse code signal.  But power-line technology as used by Insteon is just too slow, and too sensitive to noise.

 

Finally from the consumer's point-of-view, the Insteon technology is single-source, and doesn't play well with others.  The PLM is the only interface, and Smarthome is quite happy to leave that ancient bit of technology as-is (and it doesn't hurt their bottom line that we all replace ours every two years due to the built-in obsolescence).

 

Conclusion:  Start looking at the technologies out there, and consider switching to something else.  (And yes, that's what I've done: I shall purchase no more Insteon devices, new or used, for any purpose -- as they fail, I'll pull existing ones out of the wall and shuffle them about so that I can keep the technologies working sort of in "room" boundaries.)

[Dr Pepper]

My experience:

 

On the device side,

- Insteon as a protocol is stagnant -- there have been no enhancements to add or implement security, for example.

- Insteon's dual-band technology is flawed (i.e. the RF side becomes non-functional when the power-line side is suffering significant interference).

- Smarthome has ceased to be responsive to third-parties (unwilling or unable -- it's all the same in the end).

- Smarthome was recently sold and there's been no official statements on new direction yet.

 

From the technology point-of-view, it's pretty clear that switching power-supplies have replaced the transformer supplies almost completely.  Further, it's clear that the consumer is not willing to pay for devices that keep the power-line signal "clean" -- and neither UL nor the FCC care whether the power-line in your house is a sine-wave or is distorted by your LED lights, TV, phone chargers, etc.  The point is that communications over a power-line in the home is a technology that's simply no longer practical.  Oh, it might work -- technically a spark-gap transmitter can still be used to send Morse code signal.  But power-line technology as used by Insteon is just too slow, and too sensitive to noise.

 

Finally from the consumer's point-of-view, the Insteon technology is single-source, and doesn't play well with others.  The PLM is the only interface, and Smarthome is quite happy to leave that ancient bit of technology as-is (and it doesn't hurt their bottom line that we all replace ours every two years due to the built-in obsolescence).

 

Conclusion:  Start looking at the technologies out there, and consider switching to something else.  (And yes, that's what I've done: I shall purchase no more Insteon devices, new or used, for any purpose -- as they fail, I'll pull existing ones out of the wall and shuffle them about so that I can keep the technologies working sort of in "room" boundaries.)

 

I generally agree with you.  Power Line Carrier was a big mistake for SH.  They should have gone RF from the start.  Dual Band that cannot ignore noise on the power line defeats itself.  Zwave is much more successful because it has significantly less problems with communications, hundreds of mfg's (although some inconsistency between them) and more capabilities (locks etc). 

 

I like the keypads and the ISY.  Not much else about Insteon.  I am slowly adding Zwave where I can but I could not find a Zwave outlet dimmer so I bought a few of them with mixed results.

 

SH should partner with manufacturers more experienced in automation.  Possibly sell off the Insteon protocal to a real manufacturer. 

[asbril]

Everybody has his/her own experience and everybody is entitled to her/his opinion.

For me a product depending on one manufacturer (Insteon) versus multiple manufacturers (Zwave) is easy. I went Zwave all the way.

One could argue the same  for Apple versus Android, but Apple is Apple.

[stusviews]

There exists many products that are limited to one source, Lutron and Somfy RTS come to mind. X10 compatible devices which are manufactured by a variety of vendors adhere to the same functionality, Z-Wave devices do not.

 

Insteon locks are atrocious, they don't even report their state. There's a wide variety of Z-Wave locks to choose from, but again, the features are not consistent. OTOH, the range of styles makes them a good choice. There's no Z-Wave equivalent for Insteon 5- and 8-function KPLs nor is there a dimmable Z-Wave receptacle.

 

Insteon has nothing like the Z-Wave doorbell. I can and do use custom etched buttons and paddles for both Somfy and Insteon. Their appearance is impressive. That's not possible with Z-Wave devices.

 

There are endless discussions either praising or disparaging both Insteon and Z-wave. I go for BoB (Best of Both).

[apostolakisl]

The beauty of ISY is:

 

YOU DON'T HAVE TO CHOOSE!

 

You can mix and match.  Heck, with 5.x and node module, the clever ones will be able to integrate anything with a network interface.  As it is already, io_guy has already put together a package of like 20 brands that can plug right into ISY and thus work directly with each other, Insteon, and zwave.

[asbril]

The beauty of ISY is:

 

YOU DON'T HAVE TO CHOOSE!

 

You can mix and match.  Heck, with 5.x and node module, the clever ones will be able to integrate anything with a network interface.  As it is already, io_guy has already put together a package of like 20 brands that can plug right into ISY and thus work directly with each other, Insteon, and zwave.

Point taken. I just pointed out my personal choice.

[bcdavis75]

I'm curious.  A few of you have mentioned that the Insteon dual band protocol is a flawed concept becasue line noise compromises both "bands".  I don't want to get too far off my own topic but is that known fact or a strong suspicion?

 

For me, I'm not contemplating a rip and replace.  I have no experience with Zwave devices and I'm generally happy with Insteon despite the occasional failure and/or communication problem.  However, I don't want to be caught flatfooted if Insteon starts to disappear or keep buying their stuff if the writing is on the wall and I've just been missing it.

 

Thanks for all of you views on this.  It's an interesting discussion.   I should mention that more then anything, I hope UDI keeps chugging along!  Even as a novice DIY'er, I find the ISY an amazing device compared to all the other nonsense out there.

[stusviews]

Yes, powerline noise is known to interfere with Insteon signals even if the arriving signal is RF. That's because the device is connected to the powerline and "reads" both powerline and RF signals. However, powerline noise is easy to control. The difficulty is finding the offending device. But a systematic approach virtually always identifies the culprit.

[paulbates]

I'm curious.  A few of you have mentioned that the Insteon dual band protocol is a flawed concept becasue line noise compromises both "bands".  I don't want to get too far off my own topic but is that known fact or a strong suspicion?

 

 

 

It can happen, but its a rarity. If you are powering something with transmitter or motor that produces a lot of line noise, insteon devices can get overwhelmed. Out of ~50 devices, I can think of one case where this happened to me. It was a yard light transformer and making a lot of noise, I had planned to replace it anyway.

 

Paul

[Teken]

I'm curious.  A few of you have mentioned that the Insteon dual band protocol is a flawed concept becasue line noise compromises both "bands".  I don't want to get too far off my own topic but is that known fact or a strong suspicion?

 

For me, I'm not contemplating a rip and replace.  I have no experience with Zwave devices and I'm generally happy with Insteon despite the occasional failure and/or communication problem.  However, I don't want to be caught flatfooted if Insteon starts to disappear or keep buying their stuff if the writing is on the wall and I've just been missing it.

 

Thanks for all of you views on this.  It's an interesting discussion.   I should mention that more then anything, I hope UDI keeps chugging along!  Even as a novice DIY'er, I find the ISY an amazing device compared to all the other nonsense out there.

 

At a high level there are two kinds of Insteon devices in the wild now which Smartlabs in their standard fair offers zero feedback on. From my personal observations the latest hardware that has firmware to allow independent selection appears to operate almost like a RF only device when enabled. Off the top of my head of products which support user selectable RF vs Power Line are: Dual relay outlet, Plugin On-Off Relay, DIN Relay, and I'm guessing here because its been a long time since this topic came up.

 

The Insteon ballast module . . .

 

A person will note none of these features are indicated in any fulls users manuals?!?!

 

So what does that have to do with my initial statement of *Two Kinds* of Insteon hardware? Well, as far as I can tell if the hardware and software doesn't support the option to select RF vs Power Line the two are tied together in relations to operations.

[apostolakisl]

Theoretically you could put a noise filter on every dual band device and fix that.  Theoretically.

 

In my experience, this hasn't been an issue.  I had 16 Insteon icon devices from many years back that I just replaced with dual band devices two weeks ago.  That swap out seems to have completely fixed all com issues.  While com was good for me before hand, I still regularly had isy warn me of some missed comm on a daily basis (even if it didn't actually fail).  Since replacing those devices, my ISY has not shown any erros of com and I have not noticed any failed commands in usage.  At this point I have 38 2476D/S's and 36 2477D/S's plus a handful of other insteon devices mixed about 50/50 dual/single band.  In short, my 80 device or so network is about 50/50 and that seems to do the trick.  I have 2 filter lincs, one of which is for sure needed, the other I just put on cause I had it.

[lilyoyo1]

I guess it's my turn to chime in on here. There are no perfect protocols. Each one of them has pros and cons. The best way to minimize the consequences of any protocol is to properly plan your installation and being willing to invest in the time and money to ensure a proper running system.

 

From my personal experience, insteon signal issues from the Powerline is overrated. Will some people have problems yes. But there are fixes. When it comes to RF, the fixes aren't as straight forward or easy to figure out. In my equipment room, I have a filterlinc. Do I need one? Probably not. But I have it there to be safe as I am aware of what could happen. I also have a coupler in my panel. Once again, not really needed for for a few dollars it was well worth the peace of mind.

 

I'd say stick with 1 protocol for the majority of your things and then use the other protocols to fill in gaps. For example, I prefer insteon switches and zwave (fibaro) sensors. I use Cooper outlets for zwave repeating.

 

I get a trip out of people stating insteon is bad because it's only them, so you'd be putting all your eggs into 1 basket. My point of view is while Zwave has multiple mfgs, you'll generally go with only 1 of them for your switches (unless you wanted different looking switches all over). With that said, that single mfg. can still go out of business putting you in the same boat as with insteon.

 

In closing, you'll be fine with whomever you choose. Just be willing to invest wisely with time and money and you will be ok

[giomania]

My experience:

 

On the device side,

- Insteon as a protocol is stagnant -- there have been no enhancements to add or implement security, for example.

- Insteon's dual-band technology is flawed (i.e. the RF side becomes non-functional when the power-line side is suffering significant interference).

- Smarthome has ceased to be responsive to third-parties (unwilling or unable -- it's all the same in the end).

- Smarthome was recently sold and there's been no official statements on new direction yet.

 

From the technology point-of-view, it's pretty clear that switching power-supplies have replaced the transformer supplies almost completely.  Further, it's clear that the consumer is not willing to pay for devices that keep the power-line signal "clean" -- and neither UL nor the FCC care whether the power-line in your house is a sine-wave or is distorted by your LED lights, TV, phone chargers, etc.  The point is that communications over a power-line in the home is a technology that's simply no longer practical.  Oh, it might work -- technically a spark-gap transmitter can still be used to send Morse code signal.  But power-line technology as used by Insteon is just too slow, and too sensitive to noise.

 

Finally from the consumer's point-of-view, the Insteon technology is single-source, and doesn't play well with others.  The PLM is the only interface, and Smarthome is quite happy to leave that ancient bit of technology as-is (and it doesn't hurt their bottom line that we all replace ours every two years due to the built-in obsolescence).

 

Conclusion:  Start looking at the technologies out there, and consider switching to something else.  (And yes, that's what I've done: I shall purchase no more Insteon devices, new or used, for any purpose -- as they fail, I'll pull existing ones out of the wall and shuffle them about so that I can keep the technologies working sort of in "room" boundaries.)

 

 

I'm curious.  A few of you have mentioned that the Insteon dual band protocol is a flawed concept becasue line noise compromises both "bands".  I don't want to get too far off my own topic but is that known fact or a strong suspicion?

 

For me, I'm not contemplating a rip and replace.  I have no experience with Zwave devices and I'm generally happy with Insteon despite the occasional failure and/or communication problem.  However, I don't want to be caught flatfooted if Insteon starts to disappear or keep buying their stuff if the writing is on the wall and I've just been missing it.

 

Thanks for all of you views on this.  It's an interesting discussion.   I should mention that more then anything, I hope UDI keeps chugging along!  Even as a novice DIY'er, I find the ISY an amazing device compared to all the other nonsense out there.

 

 

Yes, powerline noise is known to interfere with Insteon signals even if the arriving signal is RF. That's because the device is connected to the powerline and "reads" both powerline and RF signals. However, powerline noise is easy to control. The difficulty is finding the offending device. But a systematic approach virtually always identifies the culprit.

 

 

It can happen, but its a rarity. If you are powering something with transmitter or motor that produces a lot of line noise, insteon devices can get overwhelmed. Out of ~50 devices, I can think of one case where this happened to me. It was a yard light transformer and making a lot of noise, I had planned to replace it anyway.

 

Paul

 

 

Theoretically you could put a noise filter on every dual band device and fix that.  Theoretically.

 

In my experience, this hasn't been an issue.  I had 16 Insteon icon devices from many years back that I just replaced with dual band devices two weeks ago.  That swap out seems to have completely fixed all com issues.  While com was good for me before hand, I still regularly had isy warn me of some missed comm on a daily basis (even if it didn't actually fail).  Since replacing those devices, my ISY has not shown any erros of com and I have not noticed any failed commands in usage.  At this point I have 38 2476D/S's and 36 2477D/S's plus a handful of other insteon devices mixed about 50/50 dual/single band.  In short, my 80 device or so network is about 50/50 and that seems to do the trick.  I have 2 filter lincs, one of which is for sure needed, the other I just put on cause I had it.

 

 

I admit I did not do a lot of research before settling on an Insteon / ISY solution, and am surprised to learn of these power line communication issues.  I was aware of the potential fallacy of the wireless portion due to interference that can plague all RF communications, but did not realize the power line and RF portion were so inter-dependent.  

 

I don't have any communication issues to my knowledge, but is it safe to assume that if the ISY does not provide notification of any communication errors, that none exist?

 

I don't have any FilterLinc's, and am even bridging the AC phases via the wireless; although that is an assumption on my part.

 

Thanks.

 

Mark

[lilyoyo1]

If you're not experiencing comm issues then it's not something I'd worry about. If all your devices are communicating then your phases are bridged. I use the insteon phase coupler because it also helps clean line noise.

 

The Potential for interfere is there but it's generally fixable. People can say it's stagnant due to interference but thats fixable as others have stated. I wouldn't worry about it especially since you have a working system. From my experience insteon has been great for me. Zwave too for that matter but I feel like I have to work harder with zwave than with insteon

[giomania]

I guess it's my turn to chime in on here. There are no perfect protocols. Each one of them has pros and cons. The best way to minimize the consequences of any protocol is to properly plan your installation and being willing to invest in the time and money to ensure a proper running system.

 

From my personal experience, insteon signal issues from the Powerline is overrated. Will some people have problems yes. But there are fixes. When it comes to RF, the fixes aren't as straight forward or easy to figure out. In my equipment room, I have a filterlinc. Do I need one? Probably not. But I have it there to be safe as I am aware of what could happen. I also have a coupler in my panel. Once again, not really needed for for a few dollars it was well worth the peace of mind.

 

I'd say stick with 1 protocol for the majority of your things and then use the other protocols to fill in gaps. For example, I prefer insteon switches and zwave (fibaro) sensors. I use Cooper outlets for zwave repeating.

 

I get a trip out of people stating insteon is bad because it's only them, so you'd be putting all your eggs into 1 basket. My point of view is while Zwave has multiple mfgs, you'll generally go with only 1 of them for your switches (unless you wanted different looking switches all over). With that said, that single mfg. can still go out of business putting you in the same boat as with insteon.

 

In closing, you'll be fine with whomever you choose. Just be willing to invest wisely with time and money and you will be ok

 

I like the idea of using Z-Wave outlets as repeaters; that makes sense.  Any idea if you could still plug in a dual-band LampLinc into a Z-Wave outlet and not run into any RF interference between the two devices?

 

I am curious how you settled Cooper from the various Z-Wave outlet manufacturers, and which specific model you are using?

 

I don't have any Z-Wave devices yet, nor does my ISY have the Z-Wave module, but also like those RF RGB lighting solutions like Fibaro.

 

Thanks.

 

Mark

[lilyoyo1]

I don't use the plugins so I can't say definitively what will happen. However, I do not see an issue with using them together as the frequencies are different.

 

I tried many types of outlets and the Cooper ones felt like a quality device. The GE and leviton ones feel like a cheap plastic toy. I like that the relay changing states was quieter and more solid feeling. Cooper outlets also support secure beaming which means it'll repeat signals to zwave door locks.

 

I use fibaro zwave sensors. Those were first chosen due to style but they have some great parameters that allow me to track things I never imagined. For example, the motion sensors have glass break sensors built in. Whether my alarm is active or not, I can use it to sense whether someone is breaking in. Granted they have to break the glass but it's better than nothing. Sense they also have tamper alarms, I can be alerted if one were to fall etc. While I don't have kids, if I did, I would know if they were trying to be sneaky and remove them.