WiFi... "Mesh" or a single "powerful" router?

[carealtor]

We moved into a 4400 sf single story home last year.  I was using an old Cisco/Linksys E4200 router as a single access point positioned roughly in the center of the house (the router is in the AT&T U-verse modem box).  This worked okay, but one Harmony Hub was giving me fits with a weak signal.

 

Thinking newer is better, I purchased a D-Link AC2600 access point and replaced the Linksys.  To my disappointment, it's range is no better, and maybe even worse, than the old Linsys.

 

So I started doing my research for solutions.  In the past, I've been inclined to set up access points rather than repeaters.  I like the AP concept because I have ethernet all over the house and I don't need or want a router.  But I ran across the "mesh" systems that seem to be a good way to go these days.  Eero, Plume, Luma, etc, but I believe these all have routers and may not play well with the U-verse built in router.

 

Of course, there are also WiFi routers on the market that sound impressive in their descriptions. 

 

Finally to my question about supposedly "powerful" WiFi routers...  Does the range of a "powerful" WiFi router work both ways?  I can understand it being able to transmit a strong signal so the device (Harmony Hub) can receive it, but what about the other direction?  Does a "powerful" WiFi router also better receive at longer distances?

[oberkc]

I can tell you that I went for the Netgear Orbi system (one base, two satellites) and like the performance.  My house is not as big, but I wanted coverage partly outside, as well.  It seems Orbi is one of the few that work without internet access and have the full configuration control, like the routers with which I was familiar.  In my case, good locations for the satellites also provide four Ethernet ports for wired devices that I can use for TV, DVD players, Roku, things like that.

 

I do not hesitate to recommend the Orbi system, but I cannot say whether it is better than a single, powerful, router.

[paulbates]

Wifi is not that exact of a science. Range values can not account for the nature of construction, layout, ducts and other signal obstructions in the way.

 

The time honored way of figuring this out is a site survey. If you can't have one professionally performed, you can use an analyzer app on your phone. Wifi Analyzer on Android has worked very well for me. Place the access points at logical wired spots, and then use something like Wifi Analyzer to see how well it reaches.  Move the access point or its antennas to fine tune.

 

I would lean towards a distributed system of a router and access points designed to work together. I also always turn off all features in the ISPs router and put a router behind their router and put their cable modem/ router in pass-through mode, where I just get internet and an IP address from them. That way, if I decide to go from ISP A to ISP B, I get the new cable modem and tell them to put it in pass-through... nothing for me to do but restart my router (maybe)

 

Something to try with the Asus... use the lowest channel number you can, especially 5ghz band. Its a whopping 600mhz from the highest channel to the lowest, 36. I found I got 1 - 2 additional bars on the most remote wifi devices when I went from channel 157 to 36. I'd still use wired access points and do a survey.

 

Paul

[Techman]

The receiver performance will improve the higher up the router is located. Most importantly, make sure the router is not surrounded by metal or any other obstacles which can interfere with signal reception.

If you have an android phone there's an app you can download, Wi-Fi analytics by Netgear,  which allows you to measure your Wi-Fi's signal strength and could help in positioning the router.

 

I haven't looked at the tech specs on your router but I would assume that the higher priced routers would have better receiver sensitivity.

[larryllix]

I tried Paul's suggestion with good results but also found I get much better results by turning my signal strengths down.

 

My guess is these tiny antennas have problems handling simultaneous dual frequencies and create lots of noise on tgr WiFi signals.

 

I had both my 2.4 & 5.0 GHz bands cranked up to 100% and my Netgear router, so highly rated, was overheating in the summer months.

 

Get all the height you can and use the WiFi analyser app to find signal strengths while turning antennae small amounts.

 

Find a channel not used by others. Some are packed.

 

Sent from my SGH-I257M using Tapatalk

[MWareman]

Like @oberkc, I also use the Netgear Orbi. My house is about 3800 sq ft and I get good WiFi everywhere. Orders of magnitude better than a single AP.

 

I will note that I use the Orbi in AP mode. I couldn’t stand it as a router and I use pfsense instead. Other that that, I also highly recommend it.

[rccoleman]

I have a bunch of Ubiquiti Unifi APs distributed around my house and they’re working well. In addition to closing gaps in your coverage due to construction and appliances, keep in mind that just because the phone can hear the AP doesn’t mean that it has enough power to talk back. I can set up my APs to blast signal @ 20 to 25dBm, but most mobile phones can only transmit at 15 or 18dBm. Here’s a good link on that: https://community.ubnt.com/t5/UniFi-Wireless/what-does-transmit-power-means-and-what-is-the-best/td-p/1895671. I imagine that you’d also save battery life by allowing mobile devices to transmit at a lower power.

 

That’s a vote for multiple, individually-configurable APs rather than one that blasts out signal at a very high power.

[asbril]

We moved into a 4400 sf single story home last year.  I was using an old Cisco/Linksys E4200 router as a single access point positioned roughly in the center of the house (the router is in the AT&T U-verse modem box).  This worked okay, but one Harmony Hub was giving me fits with a weak signal.

 

Thinking newer is better, I purchased a D-Link AC2600 access point and replaced the Linksys.  To my disappointment, it's range is no better, and maybe even worse, than the old Linsys.

 

So I started doing my research for solutions.  In the past, I've been inclined to set up access points rather than repeaters.  I like the AP concept because I have ethernet all over the house and I don't need or want a router.  But I ran across the "mesh" systems that seem to be a good way to go these days.  Eero, Plume, Luma, etc, but I believe these all have routers and may not play well with the U-verse built in router.

 

Of course, there are also WiFi routers on the market that sound impressive in their descriptions. 

 

Finally to my question about supposedly "powerful" WiFi routers...  Does the range of a "powerful" WiFi router work both ways?  I can understand it being able to transmit a strong signal so the device (Harmony Hub) can receive it, but what about the other direction?  Does a "powerful" WiFi router also better receive at longer distances?

My condo is about 2900 sq ft and because the modem is at a far end of the apartment I have been struggling for years with my wifi. I have bought the most expensive routers and range extenders but never with a decent result until I got the Google Wifi router system. The difference is amazing. My internet is coming in at around 75 to 80 Mbps and now at the other end of the apartment I get close to 60Mbps. I use Google Wifi with the main 'puck" plus 2 more 'pucks', but I believe that a total of 2 would have been enough. Friends that also have Google Wifi are as happy as I am.

[larryllix]

My condo is about 2900 sq ft and because the modem is at a far end of the apartment I have been struggling for years with my wifi. I have bought the most expensive routers and range extenders but never with a decent result until I got the Google Wifi router system. The difference is amazing. My internet is coming in at around 75 to 80 Mbps and now at the other end of the apartment I get close to 60Mbps. I use Google Wifi with the main 'puck" plus 2 more 'pucks', but I believe that a total of 2 would have been enough. Friends that also have Google Wifi are as happy as I am.

Ewwww. May be relative and sounds very dated for todays routers.

 

I expect to connect over 100Mbits on most of my connections. Router supports over 300 MBit connections.

 

When I discover under 65 Mbits I go looking for a problem unless the device is an older device, more than a few years old and not supporting modern protocols.

 

Wife's 18 year old Dell laptop connects at 65 Gbits and it is ready for scrap when files are transferred, with a single core 1.5 GHz CPU. Router has two of them.

 

Having said that, I am sitting at my son's house using the same router, but with multiple repeaters to confuse the signals, connected at about 40 Gbits on his guest network.

[db2ace2]

I can tell you that I went for the Netgear Orbi system (one base, two satellites) and like the performance.  My house is not as big, but I wanted coverage partly outside, as well.  It seems Orbi is one of the few that work without internet access and have the full configuration control, like the routers with which I was familiar.  In my case, good locations for the satellites also provide four Ethernet ports for wired devices that I can use for TV, DVD players, Roku, things like that.

 

I do not hesitate to recommend the Orbi system, but I cannot say whether it is better than a single, powerful, router.

I have to agree. I too went with the ORBI and I have had several High End at the time of purchase Routers. So far ORBI is the best of all , and I get WIFI all over a two story home and in the yard as well. I have seen nothing better ever! It is expensive, but to me it eas well worth it. UNlike Routers with Extenders, the Orbi Satellites make WIFI easy, and allow you to roam with Iphones everywhere around the house without changing anything to pick up the best signal for your location.  I am definately an ORBI fan!

[carealtor]

I have a bunch of Ubiquiti Unifi APs distributed around my house and they’re working well. In addition to closing gaps in your coverage due to construction and appliances, keep in mind that just because the phone can hear the AP doesn’t mean that it has enough power to talk back. I can set up my APs to blast signal @ 20 to 25dBm, but most mobile phones can only transmit at 15 or 18dBm. Here’s a good link on that: https://community.ubnt.com/t5/UniFi-Wireless/what-does-transmit-power-means-and-what-is-the-best/td-p/1895671. I imagine that you’d also save battery life by allowing mobile devices to transmit at a lower power.

 

That’s a vote for multiple, individually-configurable APs rather than one that blasts out signal at a very high power.

 

Thank you for all the responses.

 

This is something I was really curious about.  I'm going to rule out the "one powerful router" scenario.  I think my Harmony Hubs and Ecobee thermostates would rather have an AP nearby.

 

Nobody really said anything about "mesh".  Do you consider "mesh" to just be a fancy word for multiple APs?  Or is it something different?

 

Put another way:  Is a network of multiple APs with the same SSID and password the same as a "mesh" network?

[rccoleman]

Different vendors may use the term differently, but in Ubiquiti's normal AP line, a wirelessly-connected AP (not hard wired) can use a single wired AP as an uplink, but not another wirelessly-connected AP.  Their mesh line allows wirelessly-connected APs to use other wirelessly-connected APs as uplinks, with the data eventually making it back to a wired AP.  Essentially, wirelessly-connected "mesh" APs can self-organize to find the best way to get back to a wired AP using all nearby APs, while wirelessly-connected APs in "non-mesh" network are explicitly connected to a single wired uplink.

 

Rob

[G W]

Both.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[dbuss]

I recently installed an eero system in our condo which has 2100 sq. ft. of living space on two levels. WIFI hops between eeros to provide better wifi coverage. So far I'm quote happy with the coverage and speed.

 

I use a Netgear AC5300 Nighthawk X8 router with two Netgear repeaters in our three level 3100 sq. ft. home and have been happy with that system also. There are typically 35 devices connected of which 20-25 are wireless.

[asbril]

Ewwww. May be relative and sounds very dated for todays routers.

 

I expect to connect over 100Mbits on most of my connections. Router supports over 300 MBit connections.

 

When I discover under 65 Mbits I go looking for a problem unless the device is an older device, more than a few years old and not supporting modern protocols.

 

Wife's 18 year old Dell laptop connects at 65 Gbits and it is ready for scrap when files are transferred, with a single core 1.5 GHz CPU. Router has two of them.

 

Having said that, I am sitting at my son's house using the same router, but with multiple repeaters to confuse the signals, connected at about 40 Gbits on his guest network.

100 Mbps is great but is not available where I live. A friend of mine actually has 1,000 Mbps. As Einstein said,  everything is relative... and all I wanted to say is that relative to all the expensive routers and extenders I have had over the years, Google Wifi is spectacular.

[TrojanHorse]

Thank you for all the responses.

 

This is something I was really curious about. I'm going to rule out the "one powerful router" scenario. I think my Harmony Hubs and Ecobee thermostates would rather have an AP nearby.

 

Nobody really said anything about "mesh". Do you consider "mesh" to just be a fancy word for multiple APs? Or is it something different?

 

Put another way: Is a network of multiple APs with the same SSID and password the same as a "mesh" network?

I also use the ubiquiti unifi APs and they work very well for me. If you already have Ethernet run to various locations I think this would make a lot of sense. Note that some of the ubiquiti APs use their own flavor of POE so for those you need to use their POE injectors rather than a standard POE switch.

 

I think the ubiquiti products are also often used in small commercial environments? For example, You can set up a guest network on them with a lot of control and restrictions if you want. I have mine set up so that users on the guest network can use airplay on the Apple TVs and print to the printer that are on the "main" network. This wasn't possible for me on my netgear guest network for example.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lilyoyo1]

I use the ubiquity unifi system in my home and it works great. My place is 5400 sq ft. and I dont have any issues. Since the I turned off the Wifi on my att router and simply go through my access points.

[Goose66]

I have 4 Ubiquiti UniFi APs in a three story home and they cover pretty well.

[KeviNH]

I also use the ubiquiti unifi APs and they work very well for me. If you already have Ethernet run to various locations I think this would make a lot of sense. Note that some of the ubiquiti APs use their own flavor of POE so for those you need to use their POE injectors rather than a standard POE switch.

 

I think the ubiquiti products are also often used in small commercial environments? For example, You can set up a guest network on them with a lot of control and restrictions if you want. I have mine set up so that users on the guest network can use airplay on the Apple TVs and print to the printer that are on the "main" network. This wasn't possible for me on my netgear guest network for example.

Ubiquiti are seen in very small commercial environments, but fall short of full enterprise functionality -- e.g. their use of proprietary PoE on some models.

 

In a corporate environment, I usually see multiple APs all managed by a single "controller", with each being powered by PoE on a Gigabit Ethernet connection -- sometimes two!      Usually the goal is to dial back the transmit power to get the coverage you need while making it more likely that a given client will associate to his nearest AP rather than just the one with the highest wattage.

 

The guest network approach works well until you get into things like Chromecast, where some devices & apps include the SSID association as part of the security check -- they won't trust or communicate with a device that is on a different SSID even when they're actually otherwise in the same network. 

[rccoleman]

Ubiquiti are seen in very small commercial environments, but fall short of full enterprise functionality -- e.g. their use of proprietary PoE on some models.

 

Agreed that I haven't noticed Ubiquiti devices in heavy-duty commercial environments (we have Aruba APs in my office), but I just wanted to point out that for the Unifi APs that used to take 24v passive (AP-AC-Lite & AP-AC-LR, at least), there are now updated models that support both 24v passive and 48v active.  They just slipstreamed them into the market, so new ones will support both, but older or used ones may still require 24v passive.

 

Unifi does claim that they require 802.11at for their 48v APs, which allows for higher wattage, but I've seen people succeed with plain 802.11af.

 

Rob

[larryllix]

<snipped>

 

TDLR - I use big boy toys in my home. PaulyB is right, test your network first with tools. Referred to SNB. Larry is just too powerful and needs to take it down a notch. Marked like one a few others post who gave good advise too.

I am beginning t think a huge factor is that the nearest other modem is about 300 feet away so and I have a very quiet home WiFi RF  area. That may make a difference. Although I do pick up neighbouring SSIDs from over 1000 feet away still.

 

 

Now that Scott has his own ISP and decent APs installed,  it has enabled me to turn my signal levels down. The reception between southern Ontario and Washington is impeded by certain Rocky Mountains, weather dependant....and now the wall!   I was powerful.

[Scottmichaelj]

Now that Scott has his own ISP and decent APs installed, it has enabled me to turn my signal levels down. The reception between southern Ontario and Washington is impeded by certain Rocky Mountains, weather dependant....and now the wall! I was powerful.

Larry I think once we get those UBNT AirMAX sats up on that 500’ mast in my backyard we should be ok. We will have a clear shot. Still pending the FAA approval. They are being picky on the mast light color and bulb wattage hahha

[larryllix]

Larry I think once we get those UBNT AirMAX sats up on that 500’ mast in my backyard we should be ok. We will have a clear shot. Still pending the FAA approval. They are being picky on the mast light color and bulb wattage hahha

We have climate control here. You can get your fall arrest on for this one!   

[rccoleman]

Another downside to UBNT is you need to load their controller software on a computer. So if you need to make a change you need to do it on that computer (maybe this has changed). Regardless I like browser based configuration pages.

 

I just want to comment on this for others who may be interested in Unifi.  It's true that the controller software has to run on a separate machine, but I'm hosting it on a Raspberry PI that I also use for a bunch of random stuff (like node servers).  You access it via a local web site that controller exposes, and it's a quick, well-produced, and flexible way to configure a network of Unifi APs and switches.  It has also really nice mobile apps that have almost all the flexibility of the web config.  AP web config from folks like Netgear, D-Link, etc. have gotten much better over the years, but the Unifi interface is the best that I've seen.

 

The APs also function independently and don't rely on the controller for operation.  You can even stop the service until you need to change something in the configuration, or want to look at the stats that it collects.  The controller provisions the APs with the configuration that they should use and then it lets them do their own thing.

 

Rob

[stusviews]

I have a smallish home, but am in a unique situation. We're near the top of a group of hills with an AM radio station about a mile away. We are above the transmitter. Any RF signal has a tough time here. Even the Netgear Orbi didn't help. I tried several repeaters with marginal results. Finally, the Almond 3 gave full coverage.

 

We have two Ecobee thermostats and four Harmony Hubs plus two Amazon Fire TVs, all with no dropouts at all.