agoltz Posted November 26, 2017 Posted November 26, 2017 Hi there, I have a question for the braintrust. I have several scenes in the house (multiple keypads) that are linked to outside lights (front door, steps, trees, sconces) At 10PM I send an OFF command to the 4 scenes that control these lights, and I seem to have mixed results as far as the lights turning off. Of the three keypads and one switch (the actual light) - 2/4 turn of, sometimes more sometimes less. Is this best practice or should I send the light off command to a controller in the scene? Thanks!
oberkc Posted November 26, 2017 Posted November 26, 2017 Senfing an OFF command to a scene controller wont work. You can try inserting a short wait between the turning off of each individual scene. My preference would be to create a new scene containing all the devices in the four scenes conbined. Then...turn off that combined scene.
agoltz Posted November 26, 2017 Author Posted November 26, 2017 What Im confused about is the following Say the scene is called "FRONT HOUSE" Devices in Scene are CL2R (switch dimmable - controller and load) ENTRY - E (8 button keypad - controller) GARAGE - A (8 Button keypad - controller) So I have three controllers for the scene, one of which is the switch with the load. What I have is a command to TURN OFF THE SCENE - at 10PM, this works irregularly. My idea was to simply change it to send an OFF command to CL2R - which in theory should turn off the light, and because its a controller, the other two keypads as well???? Or am I missing something?
paulbates Posted November 26, 2017 Posted November 26, 2017 (edited) What I have is a command to TURN OFF THE SCENE - at 10PM, this works irregularly. My idea was to simply change it to send an OFF command to CL2R - which in theory should turn off the light, and because its a controller, the other two keypads as well???? Or am I missing something? Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. When you send a command to a switch, it controls just the switch.. not linked devices The intermittent behavior of scene suggests that load being switched on by the scene is creating enough line noise to compete with the scene message trying to turn it back off What is being controlled by CL2R (LEDs, CFL, ect)? Try removing the load (remove lightbulbs), does the scene work 100% of the time? Test it 5 times with and without the load. If so, the bulbs (or whatever it is) is creating noise. If not, it might be that CL2R is very remotely located on your powerline from the ISY/PLM, as opposed to the keypads. You might need to add a dual band device close to CL2R. I had to do this in my garage. Paul Edited November 26, 2017 by paulbates
oberkc Posted November 26, 2017 Posted November 26, 2017 Scene controllers act as such only when controlled locally. A switch, for example, acts as a scene controller only when you physically press the switch.
lilyoyo1 Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 I'd go with Oberkc suggestion. Add all of the devices you want controlled to a single scene (as responders) and simply write a program that turns the scene off at 10 like you want.
stusviews Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 What Im confused about is the following Say the scene is called "FRONT HOUSE" Devices in Scene are CL2R (switch dimmable - controller and load) ENTRY - E (8 button keypad - controller) GARAGE - A (8 Button keypad - controller) So I have three controllers for the scene, one of which is the switch with the load. What I have is a command to TURN OFF THE SCENE - at 10PM, this works irregularly. My idea was to simply change it to send an OFF command to CL2R - which in theory should turn off the light, and because its a controller, the other two keypads as well???? Or am I missing something? Sending a command to a device will not have any effect on the device's links. To do otherwise can result in an infinite loop. If you want to control more than one Insteon device, then include all those device in a scene and control the scene. If the scene is inconsistent, then the first place to look is the load. Remove that load to determine of the Insteon device responds correctly. If the device does not respond as expected, then the problem is communication difficulties. Post your results.
Goose66 Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 This is reminiscent of my old house where the SwitchLincs controlling fluorescents or CFLs were constantly causing me trouble. Dumped them all in favor of LED (and legacy incandescents).
agoltz Posted November 27, 2017 Author Posted November 27, 2017 So I only have LEDs in the house (except for an incandescent chandelier I can't reach). The light in question is a MR16 LED...... My game plan is going to be 1) Take the load off the switch 2) Since I have a newer one, change the 8 button keypad for a newer one (the old one is 2011 I think) Well see what happens
agoltz Posted November 27, 2017 Author Posted November 27, 2017 I do have a follow up question............. Devices in Scene are CL2R (switch dimmable - controller and load) ENTRY - E (8 button keypad - controller) When I press the CL2R button - the ENTRY button does do NOT light up When I press the ENTRY button - the CL2R button does work So why does CL2R - a controller and the Load not send a LIGHT ON to ENTRY????? This is confusing and making me wonder if the keypad is the one that is bad/
paulbates Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 This points to line noise (possibly in the vicinity of the CL2R and the load being controlled - LED).... potentially blocking the signal. A log of the communications is needed to further diagnose. In the admin console: Tools, Diagnostics, Event viewer Set to level three Operate the devices in a specific order that you can describe Press the clipboard icon Copy out just the events releated to the test Paste the results back here Paul
agoltz Posted November 27, 2017 Author Posted November 27, 2017 OK - here goes the post. 1) I pressed the ENTRY (INSTEON 1D.9A.B1) button (and the light went on) 2) I pressed it again (and the light went off) 3) I pressed the CL2R button (INSTEON 2B.BF.11) (load, light went on, but keypad ENTRY did not) 4) I pressed the CL2R button (load, light went out, nothing on keypad) Here is the log Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:20 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1D.9A.B1 00.00.02 C7 11 00 LTONRR (00) Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:20 PM : [std-Group ] 1D.9A.B1-->Group=2, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:20 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [1D 9A B1 2] [DON] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:20 PM : [ 1D 9A B1 2] DON 0 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:20 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [1D 9A B1 2] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:20 PM : [ 1D 9A B1 2] ST 255 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:20 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [2B BF 11 1] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:20 PM : [ 2B BF 11 1] ST 255 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:20 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1D.9A.B1 2B.96.B4 41 11 02 LTONRR (02) Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:20 PM : [std-Cleanup ] 1D.9A.B1-->ISY/PLM Group=2, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:20 PM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:20 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1D.9A.B1 2B.96.B4 47 11 02 LTONRR (02) Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:20 PM : [std-Cleanup ] 1D.9A.B1-->ISY/PLM Group=2, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:20 PM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:24 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1D.9A.B1 00.00.02 C7 13 00 LTOFFRR(00) Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:24 PM : [std-Group ] 1D.9A.B1-->Group=2, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:24 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [1D 9A B1 2] [DOF] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:24 PM : [ 1D 9A B1 2] DOF 0 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:24 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [1D 9A B1 2] [sT] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:24 PM : [ 1D 9A B1 2] ST 0 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:24 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [2B BF 11 1] [sT] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:24 PM : [ 2B BF 11 1] ST 0 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:24 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1D.9A.B1 2B.96.B4 41 13 02 LTOFFRR(02) Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:24 PM : [std-Cleanup ] 1D.9A.B1-->ISY/PLM Group=2, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:24 PM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:24 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1D.9A.B1 2B.96.B4 47 13 02 LTOFFRR(02) Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:24 PM : [std-Cleanup ] 1D.9A.B1-->ISY/PLM Group=2, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:24 PM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:31 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2B.BF.11 00.00.01 C7 11 00 LTONRR (00) Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:31 PM : [std-Group ] 2B.BF.11-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:31 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [2B BF 11 1] [DON] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:31 PM : [ 2B BF 11 1] DON 0 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:31 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [1D 9A B1 2] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:31 PM : [ 1D 9A B1 2] ST 255 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:31 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [2B BF 11 1] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:31 PM : [ 2B BF 11 1] ST 255 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:31 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2B.BF.11 00.00.01 CB 11 00 LTONRR (00) Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:31 PM : [std-Group ] 2B.BF.11-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:31 PM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:33 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2B.BF.11 2B.96.B4 41 11 01 LTONRR (01) Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:33 PM : [std-Cleanup ] 2B.BF.11-->ISY/PLM Group=1, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:33 PM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:33 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2B.BF.11 11.02.01 CB 06 01 (01) Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:33 PM : [std-Group ] 2B.BF.11-->11.02.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:33 PM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored. Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:38 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2B.BF.11 00.00.01 C7 13 00 LTOFFRR(00) Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:38 PM : [std-Group ] 2B.BF.11-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:38 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [2B BF 11 1] [DOF] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:38 PM : [ 2B BF 11 1] DOF 0 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:38 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [1D 9A B1 2] [sT] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:38 PM : [ 1D 9A B1 2] ST 0 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:38 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [2B BF 11 1] [sT] [0] uom=0 prec=-1 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:38 PM : [ 2B BF 11 1] ST 0 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:39 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2B.BF.11 2B.96.B4 41 13 01 LTOFFRR(01) Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:39 PM : [std-Cleanup ] 2B.BF.11-->ISY/PLM Group=1, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:39 PM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:40 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2B.BF.11 13.02.01 CB 06 01 (01) Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:40 PM : [std-Group ] 2B.BF.11-->13.02.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:40 PM : [iNST-INFO ] Previous message ignored. Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:53 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.97.2A 00.00.01 C3 11 01 LTONRR (01) Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:53 PM : [std-Group ] 14.97.2A-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:53 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [14 97 2A 1] [DON] [1] uom=0 prec=-1 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:53 PM : [ 14 97 2A 1] DON 1 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:53 PM : [D2D-CMP 0003] CTL [14 97 2A 1] DON op=1 Event(val=1 uom=0 prec=-1) is Condition(val=0 uom=0 prec=-1) --> true Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:53 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.97.2A 00.00.01 C3 11 01 LTONRR (01) Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:53 PM : [std-Group ] 14.97.2A-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:53 PM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored. Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:54 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 22 CF 13 00 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:54 PM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [14 97 2A 1] [sT] [255] uom=0 prec=-1 Mon 11/27/2017 12:06:54 PM : [ 14 97 2A 1] ST 255
paulbates Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 (edited) The Hops Left=0 for 14.97.2A indicates that the sender and receivers are using up all of their 3 retries to get the message through, and that the insteon signal path is not good It suggests that the underlying Insteon isn't set up ideally... can you confirm one of: The power legs of your house are bridged via Insteon using Insteon dual band devices? (look at page 6, the steps will work for dual band devices including your PLM or do you have an Insteon signalinc bridge in your electrical panel? The other possibility is that the problem device is on an isolated part of your powerline as suggested earlier, and that Insteon RF isn't reaching, or that a dual band device in RF range like a range extender needs to be placed on the same circuit and nearby. If the above didn't solve it, can you describe where the problems devices are located on your powerline..eg futher away from the PLM compared to things that work Paul Edited November 27, 2017 by paulbates
Goose66 Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 Also, what is address 11.02.01 point to? I think the link table in the switch (2B.BF.11) may be bad. You may want to try restoring that device from the ISY.
agoltz Posted November 27, 2017 Author Posted November 27, 2017 Good question - Im not finding that number in my ISY devices screen and its not the PLM either
agoltz Posted November 27, 2017 Author Posted November 27, 2017 FYI 14.97.2A - is a Motion Sensor - it does not communicate with the network - it only sends signals
oberkc Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 When I press the CL2R button - the ENTRY button does do NOT light up When I press the ENTRY button - the CL2R button does work Perhaps I missed someone else making this suggestion.... Remember, responder levels can be different for each controller in a scene. Be sure to ensure that the ENTRY button response level to the CL2R button is not zero (or something very low). Within the scene definition, select the CL2R button. In the main window it will show responder levels for all devices in that scene. What does the response level for the ENTRY button show?
larryllix Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 FYI 14.97.2A - is a Motion Sensor - it does not communicate with the network - it only sends signals Motion sensor do communicate on the Insteon network. That is how they interact with other devices and ISY bi-bidirectionally, for almost every signal. When the MS sends out an On (= motion detected) another device sends back an ACK . When ISY sets up parameters the MS receives the settings and memorises them.
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