Where to next

[Autonow]

I really Like my ISY99 about the only product in my home automation system that has not failed. But the quality of insteon IO is killing me. Just about every module I have bought has failed in less than 3 years. Thousands of $$ spent. So I want to go a different route. That means a different protocol So i was thinking Zwave.  Personally if I had my choice modbus would be it. But here we are. The pros of the ISY product are the (HMI) interface (mobilink) the interface to elk(security) and the programming features. The down side only zwave and insteon looks like they even dropped zigbe.  And when you think about it the only beauty of insteon is its ability to network over the power line something that could be replaced by a wireless signal.

So the question for the forum is what are your experiences with Zwave?

When configuring the ISY you were able to find the "device" in a pull down list. With Zwave I assume the process will be the same. But hopefully we are just at the beginning of the Device product development curve for manufactures.  There really needs to be a "generic device" selection for those devices the ISY has yet to incorporate. Of course I also do not want to go down the zwave path only to have it replaced by the next new protocol.  So where is the technology headed? Is zwave the best choice or should I be looking somewhere else?

 

 

[Teken]

7 hours ago, Autonow said:

I really Like my ISY99 about the only product in my home automation system that has not failed. But the quality of insteon IO is killing me. Just about every module I have bought has failed in less than 3 years. Thousands of $$ spent. So I want to go a different route. That means a different protocol So i was thinking Zwave.  Personally if I had my choice modbus would be it. But here we are. The pros of the ISY product are the (HMI) interface (mobilink) the interface to elk(security) and the programming features. The down side only zwave and insteon looks like they even dropped zigbe.  And when you think about it the only beauty of insteon is its ability to network over the power line something that could be replaced by a wireless signal.

So the question for the forum is what are your experiences with Zwave?

When configuring the ISY you were able to find the "device" in a pull down list. With Zwave I assume the process will be the same. But hopefully we are just at the beginning of the Device product development curve for manufactures.  There really needs to be a "generic device" selection for those devices the ISY has yet to incorporate. Of course I also do not want to go down the zwave path only to have it replaced by the next new protocol.  So where is the technology headed? Is zwave the best choice or should I be looking somewhere else?

 

 

If you have a Z-Wave enabled ISY Series Controller you have the option to use one, other, or both. Having the Network Module expands the capability of the controller to interact with many third party hardware and cloud hosted services. Subscribing to the ISY Portal extends the breath and capability even more to include Amazon Echo / Google Home, IFTTT, Geo Fencing, etc.

Take the best of each technology that suites your environment and needs and move forward.

There isn't going to be any new earth shattering Home Automation protocols coming anytime soon. The market will continue to offer X-10, Insteon, Z-Wave, ZigBee, WiFi, BLE, and Proprietary. From my vantage point the biggest thing that has pushed Home Automation is the mass adoption from the likes of Amazon, Apple, Google, etc. Apples failed attempt to be the one ring that bines us all is proof that throwing money at something doesn't mean it will succeed.

The shear fact Smarthome / Smartlabs continues to be in the market and selling their hardware is proof of this. They have zero backing from anyone and have literally two third party companies using their protocol. Yet, they continue to march forward and penetrate the market while others still linger or fail. How long this will last is anyone's guess but it won't come as a big surprise to me if one day they just fold and close shop.

The new guy who owns the Smartlabs company has shown zero interest to change the culture in that company. You still see zero engagement from anyone on the team. You see zero support to developers, beta testers, and third party vendors. There is zero API documentation that is current, up to date, or factual.

The company is being run by a imbecile like the last guy who truly was an imbecile. 

On the Z-Wave camp its even worse you have a protocol that screams incompetence in its topology never mind execution. Only in the Z-Wave realm would any fool need to exclude a device that has never been included from the start. You follow it up with the moronic topology of so called neighbors and routing. What are people expecting to happen or the lack thereof?!?!?

You complete the circle of stupid by not enforcing that every single vendor who makes your wares follow a standard. The Z-Wave camp is literally the Wild Wild West of imbeciles making things that don't mix and match with one another. Yet, these so called smart people wonder how come people are not adopting their protocols in droves?!?! Every protocol has a pro / con and there are limits for each whether it be WiFi, BLE, etc.

One thing I can say is who ever offers a multi protocol device device will in a better shape then the rest. 

In my make belief world that would be anyone who offers X with WiFi.  

 

[Autonow]

that was a good reply. It confirmed my suspicions. 

I come from the industrial world and I am about to throw in the towel and go old school. Ie plc. I once saw some io from Phoenix contact that was wireless and just repeated the input with an output  I said to myself who would want that. Well I see a use now. Just use io to bridge the gap of incompatibility  I just wish HA outputs were as cheap as industrial.  I think my plan will be to use the isy for basic home stuff like locks and lights and a plc for the rest. My Insteon system was a total failure with expensive modules failing all the time. Could have bought a plc for the price of failed modules. 

[asbril]

19 minutes ago, Autonow said:

that was a good reply. It confirmed my suspicions. 

I come from the industrial world and I am about to throw in the towel and go old school. Ie plc. I once saw some io from Phoenix contact that was wireless and just repeated the input with an output  I said to myself who would want that. Well I see a use now. Just use io to bridge the gap of incompatibility  I just wish HA outputs were as cheap as industrial.  I think my plan will be to use the isy for basic home stuff like locks and lights and a plc for the rest. My Insteon system was a total failure with expensive modules failing all the time. Could have bought a plc for the price of failed modules. 

Until something better comes around, Zwave is pretty good and Teken is too negative.

[lilyoyo1]

If you are experiencing many failures with your Insteon devices and they are newer, I would start investigating other things. Older devices sucked but newer are much much better. 

I'm with Teken in regards to Zwave. I think it has great potential. However, I can't fully back them until I see all devices support all zwave capabilities. Far to often I've seen people order switches thinking it would do what they want it to, only to find out it was a responder only switch, used a different association method,etc. 

Insteon does need to step up with their product improvement. Zwave is quickly adding features and capabilities which makes it seem like they innovating when in reality they've simply closed the gap or caught up to insteon completely. In some cases they've surpassed them. 

[Scottmichaelj]

Spend the money and get Lutron RadioRa2 - keep the ISY for ELK and the other random stuff. Lutron is rock solid. I will be moving this direction in my new custom home.

[larryllix]

In four years I have had three Insteon devices defective. 

An MS (out of 12) came defective and aartech.ca replaced it.
An iRlinc came with defective sensor and non-compatible with ISY, isn't worth the shipping to return it to SH. 
A SyncroLinc went defective and is too old for warranty. (dryer motor probably spiked it to death)
A newer firmware 2441ZTH thermostat came incompatible with ISY. Didn't discover until too late.

From the dozens of Insteon devices all others have performed well and not been problems. I would be looking for some environmental problem to cause  these Insteon problems. Newer Insteon devices have a good reputation. Zwave devices do not have much history behind them except incompatibilities reported.

 

BTW: modbus does not include a hardware protocol which is the problem....getting the signal there. Then there is security also.

[Teken]

On 7/28/2018 at 11:14 PM, asbril said:

Until something better comes around, Zwave is pretty good and Teken is too negative.

I'm simply being honest and direct as to the failing and weaknesses of the Z-Wave topology. As Lilyoyo1 noted what some indicate as advancements is simply catching up which has taken more than ten years.

Think, real time status updates . . . Z-Wave is just now getting into the game because companies were too cheap for the patent to use real time updates. Instead they used hobbled polling to mimic what the status was.

Think, KPL Switch . . . Z-Wave has nothing close to the KPL in terms of custom button configuration, custom keys.

Think, multi casting to all end nodes via RF &  Powerline . . . Z-Wave continues to use routing, neighbors, so called beaming, exclude / Include, phantom nodes, etc.

Think, classy & upscale hardware . . . Z-Wave depending on vendor offer what can be best described as mediocre, cheap, dollar store wares. HomeSeer is getting better as is Aeotec in leading the charge for look and feel. The rest you might as well pull out the X-10 gear and compare one another and marvel at the idiot cousin look alike Z-Wave products that mirror X-10.

Lastly, this whole concept of the so called *Healing* must be someone's idea of a bad joke. That's right up there with people who say Z-Wave RF only devices are superior than Insteon. What these people fail to mention is they have not 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, but 7~12 siren / door bells all scattered around their homes!! Isn't Z-Wave supposed to be better, faster, reliable, consistent in its deployment??

I've personally installed as of this writing 52 houses with Z-Wave . . .

Not one house has operated fine with out a $50.XX door bell / siren . . .

Not one house that uses these silly Z-Wave lock sets have operated and the freaking controller is five feet away . . .

Z-Wave Plus Generation 5 has taken more than eight years to come to light ~ why??

Because range, reliability, power, communications, standards, security, sucked. With the advancement of the ISY Series Controller supporting the above and those who have Z-Wave Plus Gen 5 hardware all of the above is much better. But, it in no way supersedes the need for half a dozen wall warts that cost a small fortune. 

Not negative, simply tired of having to band aid products that are poorly conceived and designed from the onset.  

[Scottmichaelj]

I'm simply being honest and direct as to the failing and weaknesses of the Z-Wave topology. As Lilyoyo1 noted what some indicate as advancements is simply catching up which has taken more than ten years.
Think, real time status updates . . . Z-Wave is just now getting into the game because companies were too cheap for the patent to use real time updates. Instead they used hobbled polling to mimic what the status was.
Think, KPL Switch . . . Z-Wave has nothing close to the KPL in terms of custom button configuration, custom keys.
Think, multi casting to all end nodes via RF &  Powerline . . . Z-Wave continues to use routing, neighbors, so called beaming, exclude / Include, phantom nodes, etc.
Think, classy & upscale hardware . . . Z-Wave depending on vendor offer what can be best described as mediocre, cheap, dollar store wares. HomeSeer is getting better as is Aeotec in leading the charge for look and feel. The rest you might as well pull out the X-10 gear and compare one another and marvel at the idiot cousin look alike Z-Wave products that mirror X-10.
Lastly, this whole concept of the so called *Healing* must be someone's idea of a bad joke. That's right up there with people who say Z-Wave RF only devices are superior than Insteon. What these people fail to mention is they have not 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, but 7~12 siren / door bells all scattered around their homes!! Isn't Z-Wave supposed to be better, faster, reliable, consistent in its deployment??
I've personally installed as of this writing 52 houses with Z-Wave . . .
Not one house has operated fine with out a $50.XX door bell / siren . . .
Not one house that uses these silly Z-Wave lock sets have operated and the freaking controller is five feet away . . .
Z-Wave Plus Generation 5 has taken more than eight years to come to light ~ why??
Because range, reliability, power, communications, standards, security, sucked. With the advancement of the ISY Series Controller supporting the above and those who have Z-Wave Plus Gen 5 hardware all of the above is much better. But, it in no way supersedes the need for half a dozen wall warts that cost a small fortune. 
Not negative, simply tired of having to band aid products that are poorly conceived and designed from the onset.  

Cough, Lutron, Cough.

With all seriousness though for smaller homes Lutron Caseta and Lutron Select work VERY well and are quality products. If you want something rock solid get Lutron RadioRA2 or Homeworks QS. You have to pay to have nice stuff! Now like Michel said we need someone smart to work on a NodeServer for a Lutron and the ISY! This is “lightning” though now the other bells and whistles.

[Teken]

My problem with Lutron is the mediocre switches never mind cost. I honestly haven't seen anything new from this company in terms of offerings.

If this is something you're going to pursue I would love to see you track your efforts in another thread. Explaining your choices and what trade offs you had to make.

Sometimes dialing back to something basic that is rock solid just makes sense.

I know in my home there have been key turning points where security was the main driver and thus I did not deploy anything remotely having electronics in that zone. Felt really weird having a standard decora switch that did nothing!! ☹️

But seeing zero vampire draw, zero possible component failure during a massive surge proved to me the KISS principle exists for a reason.

Let us know how you make out and what it ends up costing to do X vs Y.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[smokegrub]

On 7/28/2018 at 3:22 PM, Autonow said:

I really Like my ISY99 about the only product in my home automation system that has not failed. But the quality of insteon IO is killing me. Just about every module I have bought has failed in less than 3 years. Thousands of $$ spent. So I want to go a different route. That means a different protocol So i was thinking Zwave.  Personally if I had my choice modbus would be it. But here we are. The pros of the ISY product are the (HMI) interface (mobilink) the interface to elk(security) and the programming features. The down side only zwave and insteon looks like they even dropped zigbe.  And when you think about it the only beauty of insteon is its ability to network over the power line something that could be replaced by a wireless signal.

So the question for the forum is what are your experiences with Zwave?

When configuring the ISY you were able to find the "device" in a pull down list. With Zwave I assume the process will be the same. But hopefully we are just at the beginning of the Device product development curve for manufactures.  There really needs to be a "generic device" selection for those devices the ISY has yet to incorporate. Of course I also do not want to go down the zwave path only to have it replaced by the next new protocol.  So where is the technology headed? Is zwave the best choice or should I be looking somewhere else?

 

 

I feel we are "jumping the gun" on this. Take note, "Just about every module I have bought has failed in less than 3 years. Thousands of $$ spent". I have many Insteon devices and, other than PLMs, I think I have had perhaps one or two fail over years of reliable service. Switching technologies without determining the underlying cause for these failures may be simply "kicking the can down the road".

[asbril]

8 hours ago, Teken said:

I'm simply being honest and direct as to the failing and weaknesses of the Z-Wave topology. As Lilyoyo1 noted what some indicate as advancements is simply catching up which has taken more than ten years.

Think, real time status updates . . . Z-Wave is just now getting into the game because companies were too cheap for the patent to use real time updates. Instead they used hobbled polling to mimic what the status was.

Think, KPL Switch . . . Z-Wave has nothing close to the KPL in terms of custom button configuration, custom keys.

Think, multi casting to all end nodes via RF &  Powerline . . . Z-Wave continues to use routing, neighbors, so called beaming, exclude / Include, phantom nodes, etc.

Think, classy & upscale hardware . . . Z-Wave depending on vendor offer what can be best described as mediocre, cheap, dollar store wares. HomeSeer is getting better as is Aeotec in leading the charge for look and feel. The rest you might as well pull out the X-10 gear and compare one another and marvel at the idiot cousin look alike Z-Wave products that mirror X-10.

Lastly, this whole concept of the so called *Healing* must be someone's idea of a bad joke. That's right up there with people who say Z-Wave RF only devices are superior than Insteon. What these people fail to mention is they have not 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, but 7~12 siren / door bells all scattered around their homes!! Isn't Z-Wave supposed to be better, faster, reliable, consistent in its deployment??

I've personally installed as of this writing 52 houses with Z-Wave . . .

Not one house has operated fine with out a $50.XX door bell / siren . . .

Not one house that uses these silly Z-Wave lock sets have operated and the freaking controller is five feet away . . .

Z-Wave Plus Generation 5 has taken more than eight years to come to light ~ why??

Because range, reliability, power, communications, standards, security, sucked. With the advancement of the ISY Series Controller supporting the above and those who have Z-Wave Plus Gen 5 hardware all of the above is much better. But, it in no way supersedes the need for half a dozen wall warts that cost a small fortune. 

Not negative, simply tired of having to band aid products that are poorly conceived and designed from the onset.  

Teken, you mention a lot of weaknesses of Zwave and mostly you are right.  None of these systems are ready for use by the average consumer who just wants a system that is easy to set up and easy to use without tech experience, especially if they want programming and do not want to depend on the Cloud.

Like most of us, I have gone from X10 to Insteon and then on to Zwave. While recognizing the weaknesses of Zwave, I can not imagine myself to go back on the road of evolution and rather focus on Zwave improvements, as well as whatever the next technology will be.

Of course for those already having an extensive Insteon network there is nothing wrong to keep it and ISY allows you to add Zwave products when needed or desired.

But someone starting a new setup, in my personal and subjective view, would be making  a big mistake choosing Insteon. Depending on the on the one Insteon supplier who does not seem to be very motivated to advance the product and depending on  PLM's, that fail at random, is hazardous.

When I read on this forum about problems with Zwave locks, it is almost always because they  want to add a Zwave lock to an otherwise Insteon network. They believe that one or two extenders will do the job. But that is a bandaid. My Son has a Zwave network throughout his home and has had zero issues with the lock.

By far most of the Zwave devices (from different manufacturers) work together and we also keep seeing new products coming around from several sources.

Yes there are some Insteon switches that do not yet exist in Zwave and were it not because of needing a PLM I would include these devices in my network.

I suspect that some strongly recommending Insteon have an emotional attachment based on their familiarity with the system and their fear of it evolving towards extinction. It is not all that different from Yankee fans and Met Fans. They have an emotional attachment that goes beyond objectivity and frankly there is nothing wrong with that.

I don't have that emotional attachment and would move on from Zwave if something really better comes along, as it will eventually.

My best advise to those with Insteon networks is to be happy and enjoy it, but whenever you need something new, then consider Zwave but keep in mind that you need a minimum number of devices  to make the mesh network operate well.

 

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, asbril said:

Teken, you mention a lot of weaknesses of Zwave and mostly you are right.  None of these systems are ready for use by the average consumer who just wants a system that is easy to set up and easy to use without tech experience, especially if they want programming and do not want to depend on the Cloud.

Like most of us, I have gone from X10 to Insteon and then on to Zwave. While recognizing the weaknesses of Zwave, I can not imagine myself to go back on the road of evolution and rather focus on Zwave improvements, as well as whatever the next technology will be.

Of course for those already having an extensive Insteon network there is nothing wrong to keep it and ISY allows you to add Zwave products when needed or desired.

But someone starting a new setup, in my personal and subjective view, would be making  a big mistake choosing Insteon. Depending on the on the one Insteon supplier who does not seem to be very motivated to advance the product and depending on  PLM's, that fail at random, is hazardous.

When I read on this forum about problems with Zwave locks, it is almost always because they  want to add a Zwave lock to an otherwise Insteon network. They believe that one or two extenders will do the job. But that is a bandaid. My Son has a Zwave network throughout his home and has had zero issues with the lock.

By far most of the Zwave devices (from different manufacturers) work together and we also keep seeing new products coming around from several sources.

Yes there are some Insteon switches that do not yet exist in Zwave and were it not because of needing a PLM I would include these devices in my network.

I suspect that some strongly recommending Insteon have an emotional attachment based on their familiarity with the system and their fear of it evolving towards extinction. It is not all that different from Yankee fans and Met Fans. They have an emotional attachment that goes beyond objectivity and frankly there is nothing wrong with that.

I don't have that emotional attachment and would move on from Zwave if something really better comes along, as it will eventually.

My best advise to those with Insteon networks is to be happy and enjoy it, but whenever you need something new, then consider Zwave but keep in mind that you need a minimum number of devices  to make the mesh network operate well.

 

I don't think it's as much of an emotional attachment vs the failures of zwave. Personally I use both as the zwave sensors I've chosen look and feel much better than the Insteon sensors. I think people stick with Insteon because there is no overriding reason to switch to Zwave. 

I'd be willing to switch if zwave switches were the equal of Insteon in regards to the pros of Insteon. Maybe if I had PLM issues I would feel different. The zwave devices that I feel are up to par with Insteon devices in regards to look and feel are generally more expensive than the Insteon equivalent. That alone would keep me from switching.

The same tired argument of the single vendor still goes way over my head. If you're using multiple vendors in your house for switches then I can see how that would be an issue. If that's the case, more power to you (not personally to you but anyone in general). To me that look is tacky and ruins everything (It's about the minor details for me). I like the fact that all of my switches look the same except for the obvious keypads. Even then they go with the flow of things. 

Zwave devices have gotten better in regards to talking to one another. With that said they still are perfect. There are 2 companies I would use if I were to switch and that aeotec and fibaro. Why? Because every device they make support the full protocol. I don't want to order a switch and find out it's a slave only. Or how about it only supports this particular association group vs another switch from the same mfg. There are more minor details that I don't like but the same can be said about Insteon. In the end, there simply isn't a good reason to look at zwave over insteon. Emotion isn't one of them. 

 

[firstone]

10 hours ago, Teken said:

I've personally installed as of this writing 52 houses with Z-Wave . . .

Not one house has operated fine with out a $50.XX door bell / siren . . .

Not one house that uses these silly Z-Wave lock sets have operated and the freaking controller is five feet away . . .

 

I don't want to interfere into your boxing match here but I have all insteon network (and been adapter from day 1 having previously purchased tons of X10 from smarthome.com). I have 2 of those silly lock sets. I don't have any of the door bells / sirens. Have 2 plug-in modules though. Locks operate fine with ISY being about 50 ft away in the basement. True, it wouldn't enroll for the life of me so I've had to take it upstairs. But once it's enrolled, it works. 

 

On the other hand, I've had quite a few switches fail. Some would function as a switch but couldn't be communicated with. Every single of the one of those now obsolete dual-band APs failed. 

True, z-wave doesn't have good (any?) KPL. But insteon doesn't have security built-in AFAIK, so no locks (silly or otherwise) any time soon.

 

In general, I'm perfectly fine with hybrid approach, as long as ISY keeps it altogether. There will be no single standard to rule them all any time soon.

[lilyoyo1]

10 hours ago, Teken said:

My problem with Lutron is the mediocre switches never mind cost. I honestly haven't seen anything new from this company in terms of offerings.
 ☹️

I'm with you on this. For one, I can't justify spending what it costs to turn some lights on/off. Not only that once you get to that price point, control4 switches looks much much better. For their costs, radio ra2 simply doesn't look worth the cost. Hell, I can replace my house house a few times for just 1 of those systems. The numbers simply don't add up.

My last thing about the radio ra2 line was lack of backwards compatibility. A friend of mine out the first system in. The controller and a few switches went out down the road and he couldn't get them replaced. He had to update everything to get his house working. Maybe radio ra3 will be backwards compatible but to spend money like that and it not have some future proofing is not a risk Id want to take.

[oberkc]

I have decided not to worry too much about the future of insteon or zwave or whatever.  I have a lot of insteon and a little zwave.  I have had a couple of insteon failures and zero zwave failures (newer and fewer devices).  

This is why I am so committed to a system that works independent of the cloud.  Should a company cease operations, my system continues to work.  My devices do not stop working.  I will have time to decide how, or if, to react.  

Enjoy what is here and now.  If you wait for the better future, you may never get there.  My house has been automated for about 12 years now.  I am glad I did not worry about whether insteon had a future.

[asbril]

32 minutes ago, firstone said:

In general, I'm perfectly fine with hybrid approach, as long as ISY keeps it altogether. There will be no single standard to rule them all any time soon.

I understand the hybrid approach, especially when needing that Zwave does not have or when Insteon devices are better. However, my experience with Insteon put me off, and I have very few issues with Zwave devices. In 4 years I think that only one device stopped working.

I don't know about Insteon sensors, but indeed I have not good experience with Zwave sensors. But again,  I do not want to back to a PLM.

 

BTW it is not a boxing match . Though one of my uncles was a Olympic boxer (ending 4th in his category), I don't think that I would last 5 seconds in a ring  .

Honestly it is an exchange of opinions, without insults, and I very much appreciate Teken's knowledge and contributions to this forum. He is one of the best, even if we diverge on this specific point.

[Michel Kohanim]

Windows vs. Mac debate?

With kind regards,
Michel

[asbril]

1 minute ago, Michel Kohanim said:

Windows vs. Mac debate?

Or Betamax vs. VHS ?

[firstone]

 

10 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said:

Windows vs. Mac debate?

With kind regards,
Michel

 

8 minutes ago, asbril said:

Or Betamax vs. VHS ?

 

Superior product manufactured and controlled by a single company looses a market share to an inferior product but enjoyed by wider industry support. Hmm, I think I might see a trend here...

[Michel Kohanim]

@asbril,

VHS vs. Beta is not a good analogy because one was chosen as the winner. Same as DVD vs. Blueray. Windows vs. Mac, on the other hand, has continued forever! 

And, from first hand experience, I can tell you that no one on this forum is going to convince the other of which is better. So:
1. Instead of discussing INSTEON vs. Z-Wave, may I humbly suggest spending more time discussing node servers (will replace both INSTEON and Z-Wave ?)
2. Enjoy whichever you have till one or both of them go away!

With kind regards,
Michel

[asbril]

1 minute ago, Michel Kohanim said:

@asbril,

VHS vs. Beta is not a good analogy because one was chosen as the winner. Same as DVD vs. Blueray. Windows vs. Mac, on the other hand, has continued forever! 

And, from first hand experience, I can tell you that no one on this forum is going to convince the other of which is better. So:
1. Instead of discussing INSTEON vs. Z-Wave, may I humbly suggest spending more time discussing node servers (will replace both INSTEON and Z-Wave ?)
2. Enjoy whichever you have till one or both of them go away!

With kind regards,
Michel

Point taken (Teken)    . Sorry if I offended anyone.

[asbril]

7 minutes ago, asbril said:

spending more time discussing node servers

My only issue is that (the beginner that I am)  I can not get my arms around Node Servers, Polyglot and Variables. Some of you have tried to explain to me but I still struggle with the concepts.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi @asbril,

No worries, it'll be quite easy soon … i.e. you will have a box which allows you to install node servers from the store into your ISY:

https://polyglot.universal-devices.com/

We are working on the box … so, stay tuned for more exciting news soon.

With kind regards,
Michel

[Scottmichaelj]

15 hours ago, Teken said:

My problem with Lutron is the mediocre switches never mind cost. I honestly haven't seen anything new from this company in terms of offerings.

If this is something you're going to pursue I would love to see you track your efforts in another thread. Explaining your choices and what trade offs you had to make.

Sometimes dialing back to something basic that is rock solid just makes sense.

I know in my home there have been key turning points where security was the main driver and thus I did not deploy anything remotely having electronics in that zone. Felt really weird having a standard decora switch that did nothing!! ☹️

But seeing zero vampire draw, zero possible component failure during a massive surge proved to me the KISS principle exists for a reason.

Let us know how you make out and what it ends up costing to do X vs Y.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

5 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I'm with you on this. For one, I can't justify spending what it costs to turn some lights on/off. Not only that once you get to that price point, control4 switches looks much much better. For their costs, radio ra2 simply doesn't look worth the cost. Hell, I can replace my house house a few times for just 1 of those systems. The numbers simply don't add up.

My last thing about the radio ra2 line was lack of backwards compatibility. A friend of mine out the first system in. The controller and a few switches went out down the road and he couldn't get them replaced. He had to update everything to get his house working. Maybe radio ra3 will be backwards compatible but to spend money like that and it not have some future proofing is not a risk Id want to take.

Just to be clear I am not trying to sell anyone on Lutron RadioRA2. In my home now I currently am all in on Insteon (85%) and then some ZWave (10%) with misc LED controllers etc for the remaining (5%) [I *think* that adds up to 100%  ] My Insteon system is "mostly" reliable.  @Teken not sure why you think Lutron switches are not as nice as Insteon/ZWave. Have you personally seen any of the new ones? Have you looked at the Architectural and Designer keypad styles? They come in different styles and colors not to mention IMHO they do feel and look better than Insteon/ZWave (with the exception maybe of Aeotec). Lutron has new products released recently too. Shades, new switch styles, seeTEMP, low volt transformers for LED control, and ballast control OR most recently the Lutron Connect Bridge with Apple HomeKit, Alexa support, Geofencing, Siri control, etc. (Sure I know you can add some of this to the ISY)

@lilyoyo1 to me its not about cost, its about reliability and a system that is rock solid. That said, I would wonder if I took a look around my house, added up the phase coupler (and cost to add to the panels), my replaced items like PLMs (on my 4th one now), switches, etc, plus all the filterlinc's, you may be surprised at the cost. Surely I am not going to argue its all still cheaper than Lutron, but the plus side is you don't have all these extra items and it does all add up. 

I am not trying to say the Lutron RadioRA2 will replace my ISY controller, I will mostly be using Lutron for "lighting control". In my new home the floor plan is going to be very open, so with Lutron it will stop the "popcorn" effect with the lag that you see as well. So now for me it would be great to have a Lutron Node Server! Additionally I am looking at Lutron to control 7 zones of my HVAC with their small sensors so I don't need a thermostat in each room, then using the seeTEMP wall switch inserts.

As with anything, everyones needs, homes and families require different things. The amazing part is we can actually talk about all these products and they are making our lives better each day as they mature. I am not trying to debate Lutron vs anything else. Just my personal opinion for what I am looking at using in my home moving forward.