Insteon Motion Sensor II and 5.0.13A

[ds7771]

Hi All--

I decided to upgrade to 5.0.13A and have another go at adding the Motion Sensor II to my environment.  

Previously I was aware that not all features were supported in back level versions of ISY so I put it on hold until 5.0.13A was released.

I am pleased to see that there are certainly many more features supported now--a real credit to the UDI team's efforts to reverse engineer the device.

However, I cannot seem to find any option to set the sensing mode to "as motion is sensed" rather than "after timeout".  That was a basic option available on the old Motion Sensor I device.  Without that option, it does not seem practical to use the Motion Sensor II as an occupancy sensor.  

Am I missing something important?  Can anyone confirm that the "as motion is sensed" option is not supported for Motion Sensor II?  Is there a recommended workaround to use Motion Sensor II as an occupancy sensor?

Thanks! Dan

[Bumbershoot]

16 hours ago, ds7771 said:

Hi All--

I decided to upgrade to 5.0.13A and have another go at adding the Motion Sensor II to my environment.  

Previously I was aware that not all features were supported in back level versions of ISY so I put it on hold until 5.0.13A was released.

I am pleased to see that there are certainly many more features supported now--a real credit to the UDI team's efforts to reverse engineer the device.

However, I cannot seem to find any option to set the sensing mode to "as motion is sensed" rather than "after timeout".  That was a basic option available on the old Motion Sensor I device.  Without that option, it does not seem practical to use the Motion Sensor II as an occupancy sensor.  

Am I missing something important?  Can anyone confirm that the "as motion is sensed" option is not supported for Motion Sensor II?  Is there a recommended workaround to use Motion Sensor II as an occupancy sensor?

Thanks! Dan

I have mine set like the screenshot shows in my laundry room, and it does not shut off the light when the room is occupied, even with a 30 second timeout.  I suspect the "Motion | Condition" dropdown menu contains what you need.  At least it seems to be working for me... ?

[ds7771]

Hi Bumbershoot--

Thanks for the screenshot.  Indeed, I do have the Motion  | Condition option set to "always", but it still shuts off the light after the prescribed timeout.  It does not reset the timer as it senses motion in the room.

I wonder if you have a different version of the motion sensor?  Mine is an early model, and I have kept it on the shelf for 2 years waiting for UDI to support it.  The label says 2844-222 R1.0 2716.  Is it possible that occupancy mode is not supported by ISY for R1.0 of the device?

[Bumbershoot]

1 hour ago, ds7771 said:

Hi Bumbershoot--

Thanks for the screenshot.  Indeed, I do have the Motion  | Condition option set to "always", but it still shuts off the light after the prescribed timeout.  It does not reset the timer as it senses motion in the room.

I wonder if you have a different version of the motion sensor?  Mine is an early model, and I have kept it on the shelf for 2 years waiting for UDI to support it.  The label says 2844-222 R1.0 2716.  Is it possible that occupancy mode is not supported by ISY for R1.0 of the device?

It appears that mine are revision 3, so it could be.

[ds7771]

Upon further testing, I discovered an interesting twist that explains my problem:

I was using Motion Sensor II with a USB power supply.  When I switched to battery, the issue did not occur.

Tested this multiple times.  I can confirm that the "as motion sensed" option appears to work only when Motion Sensor II is powered with a battery.  When powered with a USB power supply, for some unexplained reason, the functionality for sensing "as motion is sensed" is not active.

Can Michel please comment if this is known behavior, or a bug?

Thanks!

[Brian H]

When you added the Motion Sensor to the Administrative Console. It should also indicate what firmware is in it. It could be an earlier version form what is now shipping.

 

[ds7771]

It says v.46 on my device.

I have no idea what is shipping today.  It seems odd that battery power works fine, while USB power reverts to different behavior.  I wonder if this is a bug.

[Bumbershoot]

3 hours ago, ds7771 said:

It says v.46 on my device.

I have no idea what is shipping today.  It seems odd that battery power works fine, while USB power reverts to different behavior.  I wonder if this is a bug.

The must have changed the firmware at some point.  Mine are battery powered and I have no "as motion sensed" option at all.

[Brian H]

The firmware version should be shown in the Administrative Console where it is listed.

In another thread here. There is a list of issues UDI has seen of features not working as they should. That they also forwarded to Smarthome for clarification and fixing.  From what I saw. UDI got no real information on them and had to reverse engineer how to handle it.

[south]

Does anyone have any idea as to get the temperature from the motion sensor? I can not find any way to get the temperature to update.

[Bumbershoot]

1 hour ago, south said:

Does anyone have any idea as to get the temperature from the motion sensor? I can not find any way to get the temperature to update.

I pressed the "SET" button until it is in linking mode, then queried it from the ISY.

[Teken]

2 hours ago, Bumbershoot said:

I pressed the "SET" button until it is in linking mode, then queried it from the ISY.

Has anyone seen their Motion Sensor II actually push the temperature to the AC with out pressing the set button?? Also, when the sensor is plugged in via USB does anyone see real time updates??

[Bumbershoot]

2 minutes ago, Teken said:

Has anyone seen their Motion Sensor II actually push the temperature to the AC with out pressing the set button?? Also, when the sensor is plugged in via USB does anyone see real time updates??

I have mine running off of battery power.  I haven't watched the temperature value change, but it seems to.  I suspect it only sends an update to the AC when they're activated by motion, though I don't actually know.  If I find some time I'll write a program to notify me of status changes as well as temperature changes.  If I do that, I'll report back here.

I'd think if you wanted to use them for more-or-less real-time updates, you'd have to run them off of USB power.  Hopefully, they'd act like the Aeotec Multisensors that I have on USB power in my garage.

 

[Teken]

20 minutes ago, Bumbershoot said:

I have mine running off of battery power.  I haven't watched the temperature value change, but it seems to.  I suspect it only sends an update to the AC when they're activated by motion, though I don't actually know.  If I find some time I'll write a program to notify me of status changes as well as temperature changes.  If I do that, I'll report back here.

I'd think if you wanted to use them for more-or-less real-time updates, you'd have to run them off of USB power.  Hopefully, they'd act like the Aeotec Multisensors that I have on USB power in my garage.

 

As always, I thank you Sir!

[south]

I was hoping that there was a way to get the temperature pushed to the ISY. Then I could use it in a program to do other things.

[Bumbershoot]

16 hours ago, south said:

I was hoping that there was a way to get the temperature pushed to the ISY. Then I could use it in a program to do other things.

I only have these things powered by battery, so they might act differently under USB power. 

The only way I've managed to get the "CLITEMP" and "LUMIN" values to change for these devices is to programmatically query the device upon a motion status change (the "DON" event in the ISY event viewer, I believe).  Then it seems to work (and you can see the values arriving in the ISY event viewer).

MS Master Bath Query - [ID 0101][Parent 0004]

If
        'Master Bath.1 Motion' is switched On
 
Then
        Set 'Master Bath.1 Motion' Query
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

Getting the temperature calibrated properly is a bit of black magic that I haven't mastered, but this seems to update the "CLITEMP" and "LUMIN" values for me.

Issuing a query without an a corresponding "DON" event doesn't seem to produce anything on battery power, as I assume the device is asleep.

EDIT: I forgot to add that the "CLITEMP" values returned are occasionally way out of bounds.  I've gotten values such as 139.9°F for my master bathroom. ?

Edited August 8, 2018 by Bumbershoot

[south]

Thank you!! I now have a way to do the things that I wanted to do. Some people are so far ahead of me, that it isn't even funny.

Thanks again.

[dwengrovitz]

On 8/8/2018 at 8:47 AM, Bumbershoot said:

Getting the temperature calibrated properly is a bit of black magic that I haven't mastered, but this seems to update the "CLITEMP" and "LUMIN" values for me.

Thanks very much for the insight on how to get readings provided other than motion sensed on this device.  Querying the device when motion was detected works great. 

Now ... if I can only figure out how to get the sensors to stop reporting that the temperature is -24 F that would be great (it's currently around 75F outside).

[Bumbershoot]

15 minutes ago, dwengrovitz said:

Now ... if I can only figure out how to get the sensors to stop reporting that the temperature is -24 F that would be great (it's currently around 75F outside).

Mine flip between plausible and implausible values seemingly randomly (meaning I haven't discerned a pattern).  I can't rely on that value at this point, so I'm sticking to my CAO Wireless Tags for temperature/humidity.  I don't really need great precision, but I need a device that will wake up when it's queried (without an external event) and provide a relatively good value.

[dwengrovitz]

Thanks for the response.  I have three of these motion sensor II devices, and they all seem to be registering about the same value (-24.5 F).  So they appear to be working consistently, I just need to add about 100 degrees to get the actual temperatures.

[Michel Kohanim]

dwengrovitz,

Did you click on the Calibrate button?

With kind regards,
Michel

[dwengrovitz]

2 hours ago, Michel Kohanim said:

Did you click on the Calibrate button?

 With kind regards,
Michel

I had one of the sensors inside, and I was able to put it into setup mode and slowly recalibrate it.  The highest value I could get it to take was 71.9 (and the inside temp where it was located was around 74). 

However, once it sat on the desk for a while, and the setup timed out and went back into normal operating mode, the temperature reset to -24.5 F the first time the sensor detected motion.  I have the sensor set to do a query on the device when it detects motion, as that seems to be the only way I could actually get any readings from the sensor other than motion sensing.  The other two sensors are outside, and they require a bit of work to get to, so I'm testing with just one of the sensors for now.  But the temperature of all three devices reads a steady -24.5 F.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello @dwengrovitz,

Unfortunately this is completely out of our realm. Would you please contact SmartHome? This is actually one of the bugs we submitted to them: temperature is inaccurate depending on a couple of factors.

With kind regards,

[dwengrovitz]

13 hours ago, Michel Kohanim said:

Would you please contact SmartHome? 

I'll try contacting Smarthome and if I receive any kind of productive outcome I'll post an update.  Thanks for letting me know.

Dave

[dwengrovitz]

On 8/13/2018 at 8:27 AM, Michel Kohanim said:

Unfortunately this is completely out of our realm. Would you please contact SmartHome? 

FYI ... I did contact Smarthome on the issue with temperature values being way out of whack, and they basically said the Motion Sensor II is not designed to provide any temperature readings.  Oh ... and if I was having any issues to do a factory reset.