silverton38 Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 I have a PLM version 1.C on the sticker (v9B from the ISY). It does not seem to receive manual switch on off insteon signals from the v.43 Dual Band Switchlincs. I was trying to write a timer a program and I noticed that the PLM does not seem to know when these buttons are pressed locally (on or off). The units that I noticed seems to be the 2477S v.43 (Dual Band Switchlinc). Basically the ISY does not seem to know when these switches are pressed. These devices have no issues with turning on and off from the PLM and respond to all scenes. When I run the event viewer it is if nothing happens when I locally hit the switch. Is there any known problem or with these units or the PLM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton38 Posted September 24, 2018 Author Share Posted September 24, 2018 Also I have 236 devices on this PLM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techman Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 1 hour ago, silverton38 said: I have a PLM version 1.C on the sticker (v9B from the ISY). It does not seem to receive manual switch on off insteon signals from the v.43 Dual Band Switchlincs. I was trying to write a timer a program and I noticed that the PLM does not seem to know when these buttons are pressed locally (on or off). The units that I noticed seems to be the 2477S v.43 (Dual Band Switchlinc). Basically the ISY does not seem to know when these switches are pressed. These devices have no issues with turning on and off from the PLM and respond to all scenes. When I run the event viewer it is if nothing happens when I locally hit the switch. Is there any known problem or with these units or the PLM? There are no known issues between the ISY and the 2477S It's possible that the link records in the switch could be corrupted. Run the diagnostics on the switch "Show device link tables", then do a "compare". If you have mismatched link records then do a restore device What version of the ISY firmware and UI are you running? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwester Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 2 hours ago, silverton38 said: Also I have 236 devices on this PLM. You have 236 Insteon physical devices? If so, you may have run out of space in the links table in the PLM, or perhaps even out of some resources on the ISY (hopefully you at least have the Pro model of the ISY). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton38 Posted September 24, 2018 Author Share Posted September 24, 2018 I have 236 physical devices in this home so I think I am pushing the older PLM. I am going to upgrade to a 2.4 PLM and see if that solves the issue. It is a big install. I do have a PRO version of the ISY; I never buy the others. UPDATE: While I am waiting for my 2.4 PLM I decided to delete the device and link it as a new device. Now it is full two way. I did replace the PLM a year ago and maybe the links did not quite transfer. I was a little pissed that the supplier sent me an old PLM (1.X) YES; I did try earlier to restore the device and that did not help on the two way communications but showed no failure in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwester Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 Ok, what you describe is a symptom of the PLM link table overflowing. So now the new device is working -- but something else, somewhere, is no longer working. Murphy's law dictates that you'll be unable to find that device until such as time as it becomes critical for that device to report something to the ISY... and then, of course, you'll find it because something went wrong when the ISY didn't see the report it needed. One wonders why the ISY can't warn you that the links table is too large - it certainly has the entire links table for the PLM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton38 Posted September 24, 2018 Author Share Posted September 24, 2018 It is amazing. I suspect the 2.4v PLM will not have this issue. I think they upgraded it. If they say it can do X number of devices there are a few of us that will test the levels My ALL ON/OFF still works perfectly so I will survive until I get the new PLM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 My V2.4 2413S has the same sized link database memory chip in it as the earlier versions. My original V1.0 has the same 24FC64 memory chip as the V2.4. On the Smarthome sales site. They are saying the link database was increased to 2000 from the 1000 . I don't see how this can happen if the memory was not made larger. If they made a hardware up grade to the memory size. I would suspect the revision would increment to V2.5 or higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton38 Posted October 2, 2018 Author Share Posted October 2, 2018 I have an update on the upgrade to the 2.4 PLM. I upgraded it and half way through it started failing the rest of the devices. I decided to restore each device that failed. That worked well. I noticed a few devices still work perfect on my ALL ON/OFF scenes and other scenes even with Alexa (which does it through the ISY) but with some devices it does not seem to track. Even if I restore the device. The only way I can fix the device is if I remove it and then reinstall it. I have been doing this to any device that I need feedback on. I can test this by watching the event viewer and manually switching the switch and nothing shows up. I have used 5 PLMs (upgraded from the old ISY to the latestl) over the years and I have changed every single switch over time to dual band devices. I have used "replace device with" on almost every switch over time. I appear to have 989 Links in the PLM links table. Should I decrease these links (any suggestions)? I know I am a large installation but that should not be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 @silverton38, 989 links is at the edge. If at all possible, please try to reduce the number of links to about 800. To do so, start with merging scenes that have the same members. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilyoyo1 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 One thing I do is create a scene for all devices in each room. I think create programs that activated these scenes to the levels I want the lights to be at. This allows me to cut down on links for non critical items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton38 Posted October 4, 2018 Author Share Posted October 4, 2018 I have cleaned up a lot of scenes and got my number down considerably. I may try reinstalling all of the switches that were not reporting their status. Rebuilding the device is not enough. Thank You for the assistance. P.S. Big installs might have their issues but it is so nice to see all my switches/lights turning on and off instantly. If I had this many switches on Zwave I would assume it would take a considerable amount of time to turn on and off all the lights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton38 Posted October 5, 2018 Author Share Posted October 5, 2018 Michael; Is the ISY the limitation or the PLM (which I suspect). If it is the PLM is limited are the new Insteon guys considering upgrading it and/or modernizing it? Hopefully they are working with Universal Devices on their products. I have even a bigger installation that someone wants me to do. I am thinking that Z-wave is my only option because the three way and four way switches do not show up as devices. I personally prefer Insteon because of the the Instant ON/OFF but they need to do some modernization. They should consider creating a 3 way switch option and/or a powerful PLM. Regardless of my installation; I will always use the ISY!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 Hi @silverton38, Yes, INSTEON limitation. No, they are not working with us. Z-Wave can only do 232 nodes. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 I see on the Smarthome sales site. They claim the 2413S has been updated to 2000 Links and faster memory. Since at least Memorial day sale. When I bought a spare and it was still V2.4 then. Would that increase the limit if it ever does actually ship? Though I keep seeing the V2.4 with 9E firmware being reported as recently received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulbates Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 I'm wondering if the ISY software that keeps the "system of record" copy of the PLM has been updated to accommodate 2000 links? One argument is that it was designed to the specs of the original 2413. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton38 Posted October 6, 2018 Author Share Posted October 6, 2018 8 hours ago, Michel Kohanim said: Hi @silverton38, Yes, INSTEON limitation. No, they are not working with us. Z-Wave can only do 232 nodes. With kind regards, Michel If you eliminate the 3 way and 4 way switches; which all these houses seem to have tons of them. You can really get the devices down. I will install 182 devices in the house but it will actually be well above 200 switches. I also have to install motions and other devices. How close can I get to 232 before I will have trouble with Z-wave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton38 Posted October 6, 2018 Author Share Posted October 6, 2018 2 hours ago, Brian H said: I see on the Smarthome sales site. They claim the 2413S has been updated to 2000 Links and faster memory. Since at least Memorial day sale. When I bought a spare and it was still V2.4 then. Would that increase the limit if it ever does actually ship? Though I keep seeing the V2.4 with 9E firmware being reported as recently received. I just bought a new one a couple weeks ago and sent me a 2.4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbwarner5 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Trouble adding a 2477D switch. ....I have read through the posting titled Cannot Determine Device Link Table and have tried all three methods multiple times to add the switch, including factory resets each time etc. I get various errors from Cannot Determine Device Link Table to Insteon Engine error, to cannot determine device type. I then found this discussion and have checked a few things: -570 PLM links, V9b -~250 line items under "my lighting, -Firmware 4.7.3, UI 4.6.2, 994iPro with z-wave and Elk -Latest Java and Admin console. I randomly picked a few devices and did a links table compare and each one had errors ranging from "missing this record" to "record missing" to "failed reading device". This combined with a constant battle of errors (lights not behaving properly or needing repeat commands etc) has me really worried. Are these problems related? Any other suggestions how to add this new switch? Is there a way to rewrite the correct information from the ISY to each device easily, or is this even necessary? Any advice is welcome. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Your UI should be 4.7.3 to match the firmware installed. https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/24441-release-473-is-now-official/ https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/24381-isy-launcher/ How old is the 2413S PLM? They have a reputation of failing after around two years and a few months old. What is the date code on the white sticker on the back of the PLM? There is a very long thread here regarding the 2413S PLM failures and typical symptoms. https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/13866-repair-of-2413s-plm-when-the-power-supply-fails/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbwarner5 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Brian thanks. I thought so too. I did the auto update when 4.7.3 came out. the UI ended up at 4.6. So last night I went and downloaded the 4.7.3 zip file for 994i with Seaver’s and manually reinstalled it. No change to the UI. What am I missing. Any suggestions ? will check later on the PLM thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 I believe 4.7.3 uses the ISY Launcher linked in an above reply. That is what I am using with 4.7.3. You did clear out the Java Cache? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbwarner5 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Thanks Brian. i am now 4.7.3 on both. But still no luck.... I am going to try a different new switch as well as see if i get the same results. Any thoughts about the discrepancies between my Link tables? Is there a way to "mass update" all of the switches to match the ISY link table? Is this an issue? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbwarner5 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 ok... I have just tried switch number two in a separate location. Same result for the Start Linking. "cannot determine device link table". Tried the second method of adding via address and Auto..That has seemed to work. Am using a "test bench" plug dongle to do so. Will pull the original now out of the wall and see if i can get it to work on the test bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 One of the signs a PLM is going south. Is missing links in the PLM or doing a PLM link count is empty or almost empty. In tools diagnostics. You may want to do a Show PLM Link Table and see how many are in it. You may have to do it a few times as any Insteon actions during the count can cause incorrect results. A Restore Modem (PLM) should rewrite all the links in a PLM that the ISY knows about. Clicking on a device in the console. There is an option to restore its links. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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