insteon Micro Module Dimmer flickering lights on traffic

[Bernardo]

I have installed over 300 devices on a house including, keypads , micro modules relays and dimmers, in line relays and dimmer, pretty much all the catalog of insteon devices.

 

But every time there's insteon traffic the dimmeable micro modules flicker or blink, even when there's no signal for them. No matter if they are dim or fast on, still flickers on ALL traffic.

 

I have the same brand and model bulbs on other house with insteon micro modules and no flickering or blinking. What could it ? 

 

Have any of you have this issues before?

 

Thanks in advance

[kohai]

are they led light bulbs?

[drich]

Interesting as I have just replaced a couple of my ceiling fans and am seeing the same thing from the lights in the new fans. I'm using a Fanlinc instead of a micro module and LED lamps. They flicker on all Insteon traffic if the lights are dimmed at all. It's driving us all a little batty... I had a chat with support at Smarthome on Friday, I had to argue with the support rep to convince him that it was really happening and he escalated it to their techs. The techs haven't called me back yet.

[drich]

To follow up, I did hear back from the techs at Insteon. They are suspecting a bad device, but I couldn't track one down by air-gapping every single accessible Insteon device in the house. The next step would be throwing breakers one by one and checking to see if I still get LED flicker after each one. I haven't had the time (or energy) to do this. However, the fact that I'm not the only one seeing this makes me think that some LEDs are sensitive to Insteon traffic and there isn't much choice other than somehow adding a filter on the line to the lamps.

[Brian H]

They may have been talking about the module you are having trouble with. Not another one in the home.

I don't see how another Insteon module being flaky can flicker the load connected to the problem module. Are the LED bulbs rated to be on a dimmer? Have you tried a different brand LED bulb to see if the bulbs electronics are sensitive to the Insteon power line commands on the power lines? Some brands are more sensitive to Insteon power line commands on the power lines.

Simple Automated use to make a UPB noise filter that also worked with Insteon power line commands. Went between the load output of the module and the load itself.

There is a thread here on the ZFN10 filter. I believe it was discontinued and some one was trying to assemble similar  parts. What you probably need is a coil between the load output and the load itself.   Though the capacitor in the filter also would help.

https://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/10120-diy-noise-filter/

A flickering LED load is not unique to Insteon. Lutron makes a filter to go with their dimmers to stop power line signals from effecting their dimmers.

[Bernardo]

Thanks to all for the replies, 

 

The bulbs are LED dimmable, I have the same brand/model at another location with no problems whatsoever.

 

The flickering/blinking occurs with any insteon traffic, no matter if it was intended for that section, scene or device. Every time there's insteon traffic on the power lines the lights will blink.

 

I made some trail and error research, and even with the PLM disconnected I get the same annoying flickering. But I can recall that it started from day one so I'll try the noise filter alternative, will this affect the dimmer?

Is there any noise filter that I can place between the light circuit and the micromodule to isolate the traffic? 

[Bernardo]

*UPDATE*

 

I solved the issue by connecting another bulb with different wattage and driver in the same circuit of lights, seems like the previously installed lights had a dimmeable driver very sensitive, but when I added the other one it made them all "less" sensitive, so instead of gradually change by 1%  (I'm exagerating) it does every 5%, so no biggie but the flickering while traffic is gone.

 

I put the less watts bulb inside the ceiling, (since it's a low wattage, low heat type of led) , so it won't show and every thing looks exactly the same as the decorator proposed.

 

The real explanation is the new led light, had a "energy discharge" type of filter, which consists in a RLC filter for making smoother transitions between on/off , in this case traffic draws a little amount of energy from the insteon devices while pulsating.

 

So bottom line, if anyone has led compability problems, as long as it doesn't stay flickering while dim, just try adding another brand of bulb to the circuit, even if it's the same wattage, it may "shave" the frequency changes.

 

 

[Tim.Sto]

I have the same problem with string LED lights flickering with any Insteon traffic. 

The bulbs are 2W LED bulbs (LED Replacement Bulbs 2W 4Pack https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QB2S1LN/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_O2viDbNZ3JXFW).

Does anyone have a suggestion for a bulb with this filter that would replace one of these?

[Techman]

Some of the older LED bulbs have a driver circuit which can cause the flicker

Some of the newer bulbs are using a newer LED chip which doesn't require a driver. Take a look at the newer line of  FEIT and CREE bulbs

This FEIT bulb doesn't flicker and is compatible with Insteon:   https://www.feit.com/products/bulbs/general-purpose/led-lampsperformanceperformance_ledperformance_leda19a1960-cl-led-2/

 

 

[Tim.Sto]

Update...I purchased an 11 watt incandescent appliance bulb and it solved the issue.  The Insteon micro module has a 5 watt minimum according to the specifications I missed.   The (30) 2 watt LED bulbs in the string were not drawing enough power until I was over 83% on the dimmer.  It didn't flicker over that amount, so I decided to pull more power by adding the incandescent bulb.  It worked...no more flickering even at 5%.  It was either the increased power draw or the bulb was somehow filtering.  I put it in the middle of string...not at the beginning.

Hopefully this helps someone else.