carealtor Posted May 9, 2019 Author Posted May 9, 2019 (edited) @dwengrovitz I think what you are seeing is the same bug that is being discussed here. The backlight level being displayed is not being refreshed. So you are wanting to see the backlight level of one of the other 26 switches, but in reality you are still seeing the level for the one switch you changed to 50%. Edited May 9, 2019 by carealtor
chris932 Posted May 23, 2019 Posted May 23, 2019 Trying to get all devices to have a uniform appearance I was struggling with because I would see backlight level 0 on some devices. Is the backlight level like the quality of the keypad materials, where devices purchased at different times are not exact matches? If I were to go in and adjust the backlight level on everything to match would I end up with a uniform appearance, or would I notice some are brighter and others are dimmer? Since I don't have any desire to adjust the backlight level, does anyone know what is the factory default value?
brians Posted October 19, 2019 Posted October 19, 2019 Different revisions of Insteon switches behave differently with the backlight level setting. The most recent dual band seem to be ok entering a percentage, but an older V5.2 2476S (ISY says v.37) with sense (I have 24 of these) pretty much any value will cause the backlight to turn off. I have to put in value of 0% for it to come on and a value like 1 or 2 to turn off (I use in program to turn them off at night in bedroom and I use 2 for some reason and I can't remember why). Some other higher values seem to make the LED go very dim but I didn't feel like going through all 100 values to test. I don't like the default brightness on new switchlincs - think its too bright. It is a challenge to make the LEDs look sorta same with different switch revisions. I had it figured out before but forgot so now I am experimenting again and determine 5% in a new switchlinc seems to match the older revision brightness of V5.2 set at 0%. But if I put in a value of 3% it jumps down to a very dim level. to 4% matches an older 2476D dimmer I have that I can't remember if I set backlight on it or not - but this new switch is replacing a V5.2 in a dual gang with this 2476D so I have it matching closer now with 4%. I will mention here, slightly off topic, but many of my V5.2 seem to be failing and in last year or so I have replaced 5 of them due to reliability issues with responding. I set another 2477D dual band v.41 at 12% to match a similar brightness as a V5.2 at 0. Very old versions of Insteon didn't allow backlight adjustment at all - it was something added in later on and seems took SmartHome a while before they added more levels rather than on/off. Pick a value that looks good... document it using Notes or some other means if you ever need to replace it or add another one and want same value.
ulrick65 Posted October 21, 2019 Posted October 21, 2019 On 10/19/2019 at 2:15 PM, brians said: Different revisions of Insteon switches behave differently with the backlight level setting. The most recent dual band seem to be ok entering a percentage, but an older V5.2 2476S (ISY says v.37) with sense (I have 24 of these) pretty much any value will cause the backlight to turn off. I have to put in value of 0% for it to come on and a value like 1 or 2 to turn off (I use in program to turn them off at night in bedroom and I use 2 for some reason and I can't remember why). Some other higher values seem to make the LED go very dim but I didn't feel like going through all 100 values to test. I don't like the default brightness on new switchlincs - think its too bright. It is a challenge to make the LEDs look sorta same with different switch revisions. I had it figured out before but forgot so now I am experimenting again and determine 5% in a new switchlinc seems to match the older revision brightness of V5.2 set at 0%. But if I put in a value of 3% it jumps down to a very dim level. to 4% matches an older 2476D dimmer I have that I can't remember if I set backlight on it or not - but this new switch is replacing a V5.2 in a dual gang with this 2476D so I have it matching closer now with 4%. I will mention here, slightly off topic, but many of my V5.2 seem to be failing and in last year or so I have replaced 5 of them due to reliability issues with responding. I set another 2477D dual band v.41 at 12% to match a similar brightness as a V5.2 at 0. Very old versions of Insteon didn't allow backlight adjustment at all - it was something added in later on and seems took SmartHome a while before they added more levels rather than on/off. Pick a value that looks good... document it using Notes or some other means if you ever need to replace it or add another one and want same value. My exact experience as well. I have a mix of devices going back to 2008 or before (dont recall exactly, I bought several boxes of Insteon stuff in 2008 from a shop that was getting out of the business...some used and some new) and I still haven't quite figured out all the different versions and revisions. Confusing to say the least. What I do know if that once I started messing with backlights, I had them all frigged up one to the next. Now I pretty much leave them at default (which I agree is way to bright) and if I do adjust them, I hope the ones close to eachother can come out about the same brightness...or I abort. Fun stuff...
Jono Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 I’m also having a backlight problem with a 6 button keypad. I set the backlight to 15on/6 off and the change is written to the device. The device is properly lit. The next day the switch has no lights on and the admin console is showing 0/0 for the device’s backlight. Is this also a bug or a different problem?
apnar Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 I’m also having a backlight problem with a 6 button keypad. I set the backlight to 15on/6 off and the change is written to the device. The device is properly lit. The next day the switch has no lights on and the admin console is showing 0/0 for the device’s backlight. Is this also a bug or a different problem? The bug still exists today (no way to see value of backlight setting and it not refreshing when moving between devices in the console) but it never impacted the values actually stored on the device. You either have a program somewhere writing backlight settings to the device or a faulty device. I’d first check your programs, then factory reset the device and restore it. You’ll likely need to manually reset the backlight value as I don’t think a restore rewrites that value. Pay no attention to that 0/0, the console shows the value used last to set the back light setting on the details of all devices or if no switch has been set since restart it shows 0/0.
MrBill Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 13 hours ago, apnar said: The bug still exists today (no way to see value of backlight setting and it not refreshing when moving between devices in the console) but it never impacted the values actually stored on the device. I installed a new switch one day a few months back (actually expanding a location from 3 to 4 gang) I had the worst time setting backlight values equally due to this bug, I finally realized I needed to either restart the admin console 4 times or the better workaround is I created a one time use program to set all 4 backlights, ran the then block once and then deleted the program. While that's a simple workaround, I wonder why this version 5.x bug has never been addressed?
JoelW Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 So I wrote a program to set the backlight level to 0 for all 8 switched on the keypad and still every one is dimly lit in the background. I have two other 8 port switches on the system and they are perfect. Lights off until switched on and then at 100%. Turn off and they are out (0). Anxious to hear any ideas!!!!
apnar Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 1 minute ago, joel.weisbrod@gmail.com said: So I wrote a program to set the backlight level to 0 for all 8 switched on the keypad and still every one is dimly lit in the background. I have two other 8 port switches on the system and they are perfect. Lights off until switched on and then at 100%. Turn off and they are out (0). Anxious to hear any ideas!!!! For Keypads I believe only the setting on the primary button does anything. If you want it 0 when off and full when on, then you want to select the "On 15 / Off 0" setting for the backlight of that primary button. In a program that'd be "Your Devices" Set <your primary button on the switch> "Backlight" then "On 15 / Off 0" from the drop down.
apnar Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 @Michael any chance we could get this fixed in the console. As is it's really really confusing that if you change the backlight for one device and move to the next device it shows you the value from the previous device. Makes it even harder if you're trying to set a bunch of devices to the same value because as you move to each device you can't set it to the same value unless you change it to something else and then back. Ideally it'd be populated with the value queried from the switch or cached on the ISY from the last time set, but if that's not possible at least show something like "On X, Off X" when showing a device page so it's clear that the real value isn't being shown. 2
Michel Kohanim Posted June 11, 2020 Posted June 11, 2020 Hi @apnar, Is this also the case if you query? With kind regards, Michel
apnar Posted June 11, 2020 Posted June 11, 2020 10 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said: Hi @apnar, Is this also the case if you query? With kind regards, Michel As far as I know there is no way to see the current backlight setting in the console. Doing a Query does not give you the correct value nor does it reset it to show 0. As best I can tell the console will always show you the value that was used to set the backlight for the last device of the that type. As an example say I have two simple 2477D dimmers, A and B. Both of which are set to 40% backlight. If I open the console and click on A or B they will both show 0%. If I query they will both show 0%. This isn't ideal but is at least understandable. I'd prefer it show the real value or if not possible at least something to show it doesn't know it like an X or such. If I select A and set it's backlight to 60% it will now show 60%. If I then click on B it'll show 60% (this is where things get confusing as it should show 40% or at least zero). If I query it'll still show the wrong value of 60%. If I want to set it to 60% (like I'm trying to set to adjacent switches to the same value) I now need to change it to something else then change it back to 60% for it to initiate the write. I hope that clears it up a bit. The really confusing part is when it's showing a wrong value of the last switch set. 1
carealtor Posted June 11, 2020 Author Posted June 11, 2020 As the OP of this thread I'll chime in (again) and say that I concur with @apnar on the description of the problem. It's been well over a year and this hasn't been addressed.
apostolakisl Posted June 11, 2020 Posted June 11, 2020 @Michel KohanimIt is my recollection that if you factory reset and restore a device, the previous backlight level is not restored. Perhaps the latest firmware has this fixed, but my last experience with restoring a switch with altered backlight maybe a year ago required my manually fixing the backlight.
Michel Kohanim Posted June 12, 2020 Posted June 12, 2020 Hello all, Submitted a bug #754. With kind regards, Michel 1
MrBill Posted June 12, 2020 Posted June 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Michel Kohanim said: Submitted a bug #754. WOW, I thought this was a known bug for a long time. It's kinda like scene re-writes to battery controllers, I thought we were just waiting for it to be fixed. These are the two biggest I know of that effect my usage, but I wonder of there are others? Is there a public list of known open issues anywhere?
Retrofit Posted October 18, 2020 Posted October 18, 2020 I am migrating from Insteon hub to ISY and came across this bug. It was one of the first things I noticed because we have dimmers in our bedrooms and the family hates the bright led. So I decreased the levels. I can see the backlight values in Insteon's mobile app. In the app they refer to it as LED Brightness and it is shown as a percentage. But migrating to ISY means I can no longer use Insteon's mobile app. I am using ISY firmware version v.5.2.0. UI is the same version too.
carealtor Posted October 18, 2020 Author Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) @Retrofit There is no issue with setting the LED Brightness via the ISY with programs. The bug discussed here is with displaying the current value in the ISY admin console. Also, the bug still has not been fixed. Edited October 18, 2020 by carealtor
MrBill Posted October 18, 2020 Posted October 18, 2020 45 minutes ago, carealtor said: @Retrofit There is no issue with setting the LED Brightness via the ISY with programs. The bug discussed here is with displaying the current value in the ISY admin console. Also, the bug still has not been fixed. a related bug is that with backlight=0 you can only use 8 of the 15 levels for "ON" that bug still exists as well. With backlight = 1 or above all 15 ON options work correctly.
dwengrovitz Posted October 18, 2020 Posted October 18, 2020 36 minutes ago, carealtor said: There is no issue with setting the LED Brightness via the ISY with programs. @carealtor - can you elaborate a bit on this? I had kind of given up seeing if I could fine tune the LED brightness since this issue has been there for so long and I was never very successful in trying to accomplish this via the admin console. I guess I never thought of using a program to do it. Would you just run a program that sets backlight levels to a set percentage?
MrBill Posted October 18, 2020 Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, dwengrovitz said: @carealtor - can you elaborate a bit on this? I had kind of given up seeing if I could fine tune the LED brightness since this issue has been there for so long and I was never very successful in trying to accomplish this via the admin console. I guess I never thought of using a program to do it. Would you just run a program that sets backlight levels to a set percentage? Yes you can, and it's the easiest workaround to the bug if there is more than one to set. All you need to do is add entries to a THEN body. You can add as many as you like. Save the program, then right click it in the program tree and select "run then" Once you've verifed they all are set as you would like them, you may delete this program. EDIT to add: if you don't use this program method, the GUI bug makes it difficult to set more than one device without restarting the admin console between each device or setting after the first each device twice in a row, once to arbitrary value and then a second time to your value. Edited October 18, 2020 by MrBill 1
dwengrovitz Posted October 18, 2020 Posted October 18, 2020 3 hours ago, MrBill said: Yes you can, and it's the easiest workaround to the bug if there is more than one to set. Thanks @MrBill. Much appreciated. 1
gzahar Posted October 18, 2020 Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) On 6/11/2020 at 9:57 AM, apnar said: If I want to set it to 60% (like I'm trying to set to adjacent switches to the same value) I now need to change it to something else then change it back to 60% for it to initiate the write. I know this does not address the bug of not being able to retrieve the current backlight level. If you just press the backlight button to the left of the drop-down value, it writes (hopefully what is shown in the drop down) to the device. It appears to be writing something at least, I can not verify what value it is writing. If so, you don't need to change the drop down to something else and then back to get it to write the current value shown. Edited October 18, 2020 by gzahar
MrBill Posted October 19, 2020 Posted October 19, 2020 16 hours ago, gzahar said: I know this does not address the bug of not being able to retrieve the current backlight level. If you just press the backlight button to the left of the drop-down value, it writes (hopefully what is shown in the drop down) to the device. It appears to be writing something at least, I can not verify what value it is writing. If so, you don't need to change the drop down to something else and then back to get it to write the current value shown. That works great for one device. Yes, you can set the devices backlight level to a value. However when you move to a second device it appears that the device is already set to whatever level you just used on the first device. Again if you understand whats happening here you can change the level of the second device to that actual level by setting it twice. First chaning the dropdown to a random value and letting the change go thru, then again setting to the value that first appeared. (or you can restart the admin console between device 1 and 2). For more than 1 or 2 devices it's by far simplest and fastest to just use the temp program method explained above. 1
gzahar Posted October 19, 2020 Posted October 19, 2020 40 minutes ago, MrBill said: That works great for one device. Yes, you can set the devices backlight level to a value. However when you move to a second device it appears that the device is already set to whatever level you just used on the first device. Again if you understand whats happening here you can change the level of the second device to that actual level by setting it twice. First chaning the dropdown to a random value and letting the change go thru, then again setting to the value that first appeared. (or you can restart the admin console between device 1 and 2). For more than 1 or 2 devices it's by far simplest and fastest to just use the temp program method explained above. What I am saying is that you don't need to set the level twice on the second device. Just hit the backlight button (without changing the dropdown) and it should write the current value in the dropdown (what you set the first device to) to the second device.
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