Glenn R Posted January 31, 2019 Posted January 31, 2019 Hello, My Insteon Hub has stopped working (not the first time), and Insteon support is of no help to get it fixed. Long story short: the Insteon app can still connect to the Hub, but the Hub is not controlling any devices (power cycles done, connections tests all successful, ...). So I would like to move to a hopefully more reliable system, whilst still being able to use my Insteon devices (lamps, dimmers and power control). I suppose ISY994i/IR PRO would work:https://www.smarthome.com/isy994i-ir-pro-controller-insteon-ir-support.html To link the Insteon devices I assume I would need a Insteon Serial Modem Interface:https://www.smarthome.com/powerlinc-modem-insteon-2413s-serial-interface-dual-band.html Is this so far correct? To access my devices online, through an app or so, do I need to set up a DDNS or similar? I have No-IP. I'm also finding it difficult to know how to link my Insteon devices to the Insteon Serial Modem Interface. My Insteon devices are not on the same power circuit, so I assume I need RF. I found a manual here, but it does not explain how to set the devices in "pairing" mode and how to do it with RF instead of phase bridge:https://cache-m2.smarthome.com/manuals/2413Sqs.pdf Is it possible to link multiple serial modems to one ISY? The end goal is to have devices on several floors (so too widespread for one serial modem). Or is there a better solution for that? Are there any good guides on getting started with ISY and Insteon (RF I think?)? Alexa support is also a requirement. I'm quite new to this. Thanks, Glenn
markv58 Posted January 31, 2019 Posted January 31, 2019 48 minutes ago, Glenn R said: Hello, My Insteon Hub has stopped working You are in the right place. Help is about to pour in. I have the ISY99iZ pro, z-wave. You may want that support. You need the Insteon PLM, Power Link Modem, one should suffice. The ISY portal which I believe is included for a couple of years will get you the Alexa, Google and IFTTT integration. A raspberry pi kit will get you NodeLink and Polyglot Nodeserver for added device support. Now that is a lot of stuff and may seem a bit overwhelming so take your time and look through the forums, most if not all your answers are here. Best of luck! P.S. I recommend the Agave app if you want some control from a device.
Glenn R Posted January 31, 2019 Author Posted January 31, 2019 3 hours ago, markv58 said: You are in the right place. Help is about to pour in. I have the ISY99iZ pro, z-wave. You may want that support. You need the Insteon PLM, Power Link Modem, one should suffice. The ISY portal which I believe is included for a couple of years will get you the Alexa, Google and IFTTT integration. A raspberry pi kit will get you NodeLink and Polyglot Nodeserver for added device support. Now that is a lot of stuff and may seem a bit overwhelming so take your time and look through the forums, most if not all your answers are here. Best of luck! P.S. I recommend the Agave app if you want some control from a device. Hello, Is it this PLM? https://www.smarthome.com/powerlinc-modem-insteon-2413u-usb-interface-dual-band.html The manual for it is talking about phases again, I assume this is using the power circuit and not RF? Thanks in advance
mwester Posted January 31, 2019 Posted January 31, 2019 It uses both powerline and RF. Which sounds like it should overcome all noise/interference issues, but, well, the real world often gets in the way. The point being that as you set up your environment, you'll want to do the button/led test that the manuals describe to ensure that you have at least one other device with which the PLM can communicate that's on the other leg of your split 240/120 home power. Not a big deal if you have a bunch of devices, there's probably one or more that already meet the requirement. Just avoid plugging the PLM into a circuit that guarantees a "no-powerline-signal" situation -- so don't plug it into a noise-filter-equipped power strip, nor plug it into a UPS (those things, like many others in your house, will have to be plugged into insteon filterlinc units to get a reliable signal -- you'll probably find that you'll have nearly as many filterlincs around your house as actual active insteon devices, oh joy!)
io_guy Posted January 31, 2019 Posted January 31, 2019 11 minutes ago, Glenn R said: Hello, Is it this PLM? https://www.smarthome.com/powerlinc-modem-insteon-2413u-usb-interface-dual-band.html The manual for it is talking about phases again, I assume this is using the power circuit and not RF? Thanks in advance You need the serial interface, not USB. 2413S
Glenn R Posted January 31, 2019 Author Posted January 31, 2019 @mwester: I don't know too much about electrical wiring, but if I understand well, plugging it into any regular wall outlet should be fine? And what kind of device should it communicate with? @io_guy: That would be the one in my first post, or is that the wrong one as well?https://www.smarthome.com/powerlinc-modem-insteon-2413s-serial-interface-dual-band.html How would I link devices to that PLM use RF? And how do I link the ISY to the PLM? I like to have a plan of action and knowing what to do, before I go ahead and purchase everything.
bdw72 Posted January 31, 2019 Posted January 31, 2019 Once you plug the PLM into an outlet and connect it to the ISY994, and connect the ISY to your home network, you would login to the ISY and add devices into the console. The PLM communicates with the devices via RF and powerline.
oberkc Posted January 31, 2019 Posted January 31, 2019 5 hours ago, Glenn R said: To access my devices online, through an app or so, do I need to set up a DDNS or similar? I have No-IP. A static IP address is useful, yes, but not needed. Unfortunately, it can be frustrating if your ISP decides to change your address while you are away. The static IP address would keep you connected. 5 hours ago, Glenn R said: To link the Insteon devices I assume I would need a Insteon Serial Modem Interface: yes 5 hours ago, Glenn R said: I'm also finding it difficult to know how to link my Insteon devices to the Insteon Serial Modem Interface. My Insteon devices are not on the same power circuit, so I assume I need RF. "Power circuit"??? Is this in reference to the same circuit breaker? If you are on a single electrical panel, single phase 240V (120V line to neutral) 60Hz, then I expect no extraordinary effort needed. As you know, insteon is mostly dual-band. When powerline communications fail, there is RF that can take up the slack. Of course, theory and real-world can be different. 30 minutes ago, Glenn R said: How would I link devices to that PLM use RF? And how do I link the ISY to the PLM? Insteon handles RF and powerline automatically. There is no way that I know of to specify one or the other. There is also no "linking" of the PLM to the ISY. Plug the cable from the PLM to the ISY and the ISY should recognize it. Of course, the ISY needs to also be connected to your network. There is an ethernet plug for that, in addition to the plug to the PLM.
DennisC Posted January 31, 2019 Posted January 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Glenn R said: https://www.smarthome.com/powerlinc-modem-insteon-2413s-serial-interface-dual-band.html Yes, this would be the correct one for use with ISY.
DennisC Posted January 31, 2019 Posted January 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Glenn R said: I like to have a plan of action and knowing what to do, before I go ahead and purchase everything. Try following this link https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=Main_Page#ISY_Cookbook and download ISY Cookbook. I think it will help explain things to you. After reading the setup, then post your questions.
kclenden Posted February 1, 2019 Posted February 1, 2019 10 hours ago, Glenn R said: Hello, My Insteon Hub has stopped working (not the first time), and Insteon support is of no help to get it fixed. Long story short: the Insteon app can still connect to the Hub, but the Hub is not controlling any devices (power cycles done, connections tests all successful, ...). So I would like to move to a hopefully more reliable system, whilst still being able to use my Insteon devices (lamps, dimmers and power control). The ISY + PLM will communicate with your devices the same way that your Insteon Hub did. The ISY is made by Universal Devices and has been very reliable. The PLM is made by Smarthome and has not been super reliable. It seems like most forum members have experienced the dreaded "2 year failure" of a PLM. Smarthome says they have changed the latest PLM so that it should be more reliable, but only time will tell. The failure of your Insteon Hub is probably caused by the same weakness (i.e. capacitors) that has felled many a PLM. New Insteon devices are both powerline and RF devices (except for battery operated devices which are only RF). The Insteon protocol automatically handles communications so commands will be sent out over the powerline and via RF in parallel. In theory this makes communication more reliable. If the devices you currently own are single-band (i.e. powerline only) they won't magically become dual-band (i.e. powerline & RF) just because you start using an ISY + PLM. But they will work with newer dual-band devices.
Glenn R Posted February 1, 2019 Author Posted February 1, 2019 Okay, thank you all for the help! If something in particular doesn't work I will start a new thread focusing on that single issue.
LFMc Posted February 1, 2019 Posted February 1, 2019 On 1/31/2019 at 7:35 AM, Glenn R said: Long story short: the Insteon app can still connect to the Hub, but the Hub is not controlling any devices (power cycles done, connections tests all successful, ...). Welcome on board Glenn. They ISY is far more powerful than the Insteon Hub. It sounds like the internal PLM in your hub failed since the app still works via the network. Typical. On 1/31/2019 at 7:35 AM, Glenn R said: To access my devices online, through an app or so, do I need to set up a DDNS or similar? I have No-IP. If you subscribe to the portal service, you will have access to your ISY from anywhere without worrying about public static IPs. It comes with a web based interface to control most anything. It's not pretty, but it works and the Agave app adds great graphics for your device. Also the Alexa add-in works very well also. With the ISY994i you can add ZWave support to it also and have Insteon and Zwave devices working together. Don't be intimidated by the programming ability of the ISY. You will learn it as you need more advanced capabilities that the hub couldn't provide. It gives you lots of headroom for growth.
lilyoyo1 Posted February 1, 2019 Posted February 1, 2019 On 1/31/2019 at 1:14 PM, mwester said: Just avoid plugging the PLM into a circuit that guarantees a "no-powerline-signal" situation -- so don't plug it into a noise-filter-equipped power strip, nor plug it into a UPS (those things, like many others in your house, will have to be plugged into insteon filterlinc units to get a reliable signal -- you'll probably find that you'll have nearly as many filterlincs around your house as actual active insteon devices, oh joy!) He's already had his insteon set up with the hub without needing filterlincs so I highly doubt he would need to add them now. Filterlincs aren't needed in most cases. Having a high number of them indicates there is probably something else going on in the home vs insteon itself
Hurting2Ride Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 On 1/31/2019 at 5:35 AM, Glenn R said: Hello, Hi Glenn, You sound like a guy that likes things to work logically and meanwhile want excellent service. You'll love the ISY and UDI. On 1/31/2019 at 5:35 AM, Glenn R said: I suppose ISY994i/IR PRO would work: https://www.smarthome.com/isy994i-ir-pro-controller-insteon-ir-support.html Yes. Like the Z-wave, if you have no need of the IR you don't have to purchase it ahead of time, it can be added later. The IR is to mimic the IR codes sent by remote controls. That said, if you have the option to locate your ISY near your older A/V gear it gives you lots of fun & useful things you probably weren't expecting to be able to do. The reason I say "older" is because a lot of newer gear has network capabilities that can be connected to through multiple means ISY offers (via the Network module/Portal) and will provide more functionality than using the IR. On 1/31/2019 at 5:35 AM, Glenn R said: To link the Insteon devices I assume I would need a Insteon Serial Modem Interface: https://www.smarthome.com/powerlinc-modem-insteon-2413s-serial-interface-dual-band.html Is this so far correct? Yup! On 1/31/2019 at 5:35 AM, Glenn R said: To access my devices online, through an app or so, do I need to set up a DDNS or similar? I have No-IP. I'm not quite sure what you mean by no-IP. Regardless, you do not need to set up DDNS or similar; the Portal will take care of that if you have any kind of internet connection. On 1/31/2019 at 5:35 AM, Glenn R said: I'm also finding it difficult to know how to link my Insteon devices to the Insteon Serial Modem Interface. My Insteon devices are not on the same power circuit, so I assume I need RF. I found a manual here, but it does not explain how to set the devices in "pairing" mode and how to do it with RF instead of phase bridge:https://cache-m2.smarthome.com/manuals/2413Sqs.pdf First, there is no need for you to manually link your devices. In fact I would recommend against it unless you just can't wait for your newly ordered ISY to show up. Through the ISY you can either control them programatically or you can put the devices in to ISY scenes and the ISY will take care of all of the linking. Drag & drop the devices to the scene is all you have to do. Cool, right? On 1/31/2019 at 5:35 AM, Glenn R said: Is it possible to link multiple serial modems to one ISY? The end goal is to have devices on several floors (so too widespread for one serial modem). Or is there a better solution for that? Okay, here's where things can get confusing to someone new to the Insteon world. I'm going to give you the $1.50 high-level history/electrical lesson that will be more information than you need (or want) but will hopefully clear up a couple of your questions that turn out to be related. If you’re willing to read it, it will help as you read manuals or forums. I promise. When Insteon first came out it ONLY connected over the powerline. It worked better than the primary home automation technology of that time, X10, but it still suffered from the same two primary powerline issues - interference & signal loss. Interference came from many sources (including the electricity itself) but other common culprits were monitors, anything with a motor (ie. every appliance), or complex power supply (ya know, like computers & all the A/V gear the typical home-automation guy had too much of), etc. In order to help filtering devices were created that "cleaned up" the signal coming from item causing interference. The devices were plugged in to the filters and the filters were plugged in to the wall, thereby reducing the interference the best they could (which was "meh"). The second big issue was signal loss. It's one thing to try to get the signal while ignoring the interference; it whole 'nother thing if the signal doesn't get there at all. Like any signal travelling over wire, the more wire it travels through the weaker the signal gets. Surge protectors tended to reduce the signal but not too many people were willing to risk their $5000 projection TV just to get the Insteon to go one…more…outlet. To deal with that issue, boosters were created that plugged in and would do exactly that. You would to (try) to situate the boosters so that your farthest devices could still send & receive reliably. A FilterLinc is the combination of a filter, a booster and an Insteon device all in one. Now we come to “phases”. For a number of technical & financial reasons - most of them financial – power is brought in to your home on 2 lines of 120V each with a shared neutral. This configuration uses something like 40% less copper vs using individual lines. So, it’s good for builders & buyers but horrible for PLC automation. Each of those lines, or phases, is effectively separate from each other. The only place they combine is at your breaker box or at an outlet expected to be used for large demand applications like A/C, heaters, dryers and electric stoves. That means if you plugged a device in somewhere on Phase A the chances of that signal making it to some device you plugged in on Phase B was slim. …and the more powerline devices you have, the worse the interference gets. The solution became to create devices that could make getting your signals from Phase A to Phase B more reliable known as phase couplers. You could either place outlet-sized devices in regular gang boxs scattered around the house or you could use a better coupler installed directly in the breaker box. Guess what? The phase coupler(s) itself causes additional interference, can bleed signals between phases etc. You can see how we started to have as many tools to fix the problems as we did devices that actually performed automation. The more you tried to automate the worse the problem got. A better way had to be found. And at that same time “wireless” technology had improved in consistency and the size of equipment required. Insteon was smart & didn’t pick one or the other. They put powerline & RF in to the same devices, used them interchangeably and were agnostic about the need. Hence the “Dual-Band” moniker. Now virtually all of the modern Insteon products have RF (other than for security). Which means if you’re purchasing Insteon products for the first time now you will likely be relying very little on the powerline. If you have more than a couple of devices there’s a high probability that you will have at least 1 on each phase. So if you actually do have a need for powerline between some particular location(s), you’re already bridged. Have enough RF devices that you only need a touch of powerline? You shouldn't need FilterLincs because there’s less interference than if you had a housefull of PLC only devices. Basically if you’re getting in to Insteon for the first time now, I’d think of it as primarily an RF solution that uses PLC as a backup. Check out this link. https://www.insteon.com/support-knowledgebase/2016/2/22/communication-types-for-insteon-devices On 1/31/2019 at 5:35 AM, Glenn R said: Alexa support is also a requirement. You came along at a good time. At this stage of Alexa & ISY development Alexa support is almost so simple that you’ll think you’re missing something. It’s still rudimentary but will get the job done for 90% of people out there. The other 10% are ISYers and refuse to let any HA technology go unhacked! Good luck with your decision & project - although between the ISY, UDI support & this community you really won't need luck.
Glenn R Posted February 9, 2019 Author Posted February 9, 2019 Thanks for the full explanation, very helpful
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.