How do i use Wifi Plugs

[bcondemi]

Generally i have 30 plus insteon plugs and dimmers.... but are too expensive. These new wifi plugs (works with IFTTT, Google assistant, Alexa...) are a pretty good deal. Since I don't want to get an additional hub or equipment, Can I use these pugs with the isy994? If so, is there a guide someone can point me to?. I'd like to use the isy interface and app i already have but would also like to see the plug's current state (if that is even possible).

 

much appreciated.

BC

[Athlon]

What brand of WiFi plug are you considering?

[MWareman]

If they already integrate with Alexa, then get an ISY Portal subscription (If you don’t already) and then use Alexa Routines to tie them together. You’ll be able to have variables on ISY trigger the WiFi plugs to turn on or off and use the value of the variable to determine the current state.

The down side is this will require Internet to function. The benefit - no additional hardware (like a Rpi or similar).

I’m using this method to integrate my Ring cameras to ISY (to receive and act on motion alerts). I think I’m almost there in getting ISY to be able to drive the flood and spotlights via this method as well....

[bcondemi]

Yes i subscribe to ISY Portal (as i already use google home integrated with some insteon plugs). However, I don't always wish to 'speak' to google to turn on/off plugs. I mostly use the mobilinc app and prefer to manually turn on/off switches and plugs. I hope I can do this (as well as find a guide on how to set it up)

I see inexpensive plugs on Amazon, ZOOZEE brand and/or TECKIN. They both seem to have extremely high feedback and positive reviews but the biggest reason to try these plugs because insteon hardware quick frankly is too expensive. $60/ a pop is unreasonable.

 

Thank-you

 

 

[Athlon]

I use TP-Link devices.  They work great.  Read through this thread for how to use them with your ISY:

 

 

[wfitzner]

Has anyone figured out how to do what was done with TP-Link Smart Plugs to Leviton WIFI devices?

[madcodger]

I see that @Michel Kohanim "liked" the comment from @MWareman about using Alexa to integrate wifi plugs with ISY. I also "liked" the comment and appreciate the workaround, but suggest that it may be a better option for UDI to consider "direct" support for wifi devices, making them as easy to add, maintain, and use as Insteon or z-wave devices.

I know many here say that wifi is not suitable for plugs, switches, and dimmers, but my recent experiment with this does not support that. I added two Leviton wifi plugin modules to my system last year so that, if necessary, I could reboot a locked-up ISY remotely. That has not proven necessary thanks to the reliability of the ISY, but the wifi devices themselves have always been reachable. More recently, I added a "tiny office" to our property, so that I could work closer to the lake, away from the main house and garage buildings. It's well out of range for z-wave, but was just barely within range for wifi, so I added four very inexpensive Wyze wifi plugin-ins there to see if I could control a few things. They worked well, even with somewhat spotty wifi (now much improved with a powerline wifi extender). And, they can be puchased for as little as $7.50 each!

So, given the reliability we are now seeing from wifi switches, coupled with their dramatically lower cost compared to z-wave and Insteon, it seems to be in the best interest of both UDI and its customers for UDI to consider adding "direct" wifi support. One can certainly do it via the Alexa workaround, but when "workaround" is the way to accomplish something, it is not a far step for the customer to think, "Why do I need that other thing. (the ISY). Better to prevent that, while also improving support and options for customers, I suggest.

[lilyoyo1]

On 8/30/2020 at 8:23 AM, madcodger said:

I see that @Michel Kohanim "liked" the comment from @MWareman about using Alexa to integrate wifi plugs with ISY. I also "liked" the comment and appreciate the workaround, but suggest that it may be a better option for UDI to consider "direct" support for wifi devices, making them as easy to add, maintain, and use as Insteon or z-wave devices.

I know many here say that wifi is not suitable for plugs, switches, and dimmers, but my recent experiment with this does not support that. I added two Leviton wifi plugin modules to my system last year so that, if necessary, I could reboot a locked-up ISY remotely. That has not proven necessary thanks to the reliability of the ISY, but the wifi devices themselves have always been reachable. More recently, I added a "tiny office" to our property, so that I could work closer to the lake, away from the main house and garage buildings. It's well out of range for z-wave, but was just barely within range for wifi, so I added four very inexpensive Wyze wifi plugin-ins there to see if I could control a few things. They worked well, even with somewhat spotty wifi (now much improved with a powerline wifi extender). And, they can be puchased for as little as $7.50 each!

So, given the reliability we are now seeing from wifi switches, coupled with their dramatically lower cost compared to z-wave and Insteon, it seems to be in the best interest of both UDI and its customers for UDI to consider adding "direct" wifi support. One can certainly do it via the Alexa workaround, but when "workaround" is the way to accomplish something, it is not a far step for the customer to think, "Why do I need that other thing. (the ISY). Better to prevent that, while also improving support and options for customers, I suggest.

I don't think people are against wifi plugs on a small scale. Most are considering the avg consumer using standard routers at scale. Most of us that frequent this forum aren't the avg person with avg things in our home. We understand the risks and how to mitigate it to a certain degree. The avg person however doesn't. Then, when they have issues, it becomes at&t, Cox, or Spectrum's fault. 

I use 1 Belkin for the same reason as you and it serves it's purpose. 

 

[simplextech]

On 8/30/2020 at 8:23 AM, madcodger said:

So, given the reliability we are now seeing from wifi switches, coupled with their dramatically lower cost compared to z-wave and Insteon, it seems to be in the best interest of both UDI and its customers for UDI to consider adding "direct" wifi support.

Ok.  Which vendor?

There's one major problem with wifi devices that neither UDI or any other home automation platform can change.  All of the wifi device vendors all are trying to create their own proprietary ecosystem and have closed API's.  The closest thing to an open API comes from TP-Link with their Kasa devices.  Which has a nodeserver already. 

So how do you propose Wifi be supported when there's no standard API to develop against?

[madcodger]

12 hours ago, simplextech said:

Ok.  Which vendor?

There's one major problem with wifi devices that neither UDI or any other home automation platform can change.  All of the wifi device vendors all are trying to create their own proprietary ecosystem and have closed API's.  The closest thing to an open API comes from TP-Link with their Kasa devices.  Which has a nodeserver already. 

So how do you propose Wifi be supported when there's no standard API to develop against?

This is an excellent point! But then again, isn't this similar to what UDI did with Elk alarm systems? Try getting your DSC or Napco or other brand to connect in the same way one can connect an Elk. Similarly, we once had Ham weather as our only option for "integrated" climate info, until they became an undesirable partner for UDI. And what about Insteon? That's a sole source product if ever there was one! UDI has aligned with single or small numbers of suppliers in the past, and perhaps that could be done again.

My primary point is that wifi switches and other devices are much more reliable than in the past, and the UDI customer base might benefit from being able to use them. They have better range than z-wave, equal reliability in my experience, and a much more attractive price point. If I had to suggest a supplier, I'd take a hard look at Wyze. I've been experimenting with their plugin modules, and I'm impressed. And the price point is incredibly attractive. So, while your point is certainly valid, I don't think it rules out wifi. It's just a situation where UDI might need to limit the number of potential partners.

[simplextech]

49 minutes ago, madcodger said:

My primary point is that wifi switches and other devices are much more reliable than in the past, and the UDI customer base might benefit from being able to use them. They have better range than z-wave, equal reliability in my experience, and a much more attractive price point. If I had to suggest a supplier, I'd take a hard look at Wyze. I've been experimenting with their plugin modules, and I'm impressed. And the price point is incredibly attractive. So, while your point is certainly valid, I don't think it rules out wifi. It's just a situation where UDI might need to limit the number of potential partners.

In most I agree so we're starting on a good footing right?

Wifi is just another medium of communicating with IP devices, but it's been used synonymous as a device interface so I'll continue using it.

Yes UDI could, maybe should support one or more not all wifi device vendors. 

I do not agree with your pick of Wyze because they have been outright hostile about access to their API for development and interfacing and they are purely cloud based which I do not promote if given options.  For the same reason I would not consider Tuya based devices even though they are dirt cheap and plentiful they are very closed with their API marketed and branded six ways from Sunday making it error difficult to determine what device and API you are really actually working with and because of this who know's for sure who's server you're really sending data to???  The Tasmota project is awesome and the Sonof devices are really cool and I like there's a NodeServer for them but... not everyone can hack a device and replace the firmware so that's not a broad enough option to most.

Now on the flip side if TP-Link would open up through a partnership for an official API integration which could use their local API with option to use the cloud API I think that would be great.  The existing NodeServer works very well but it is reverse engineered.  The same goes for Etekcity aka Vesync devices which are cheap and work well but again it's a reverse engineered integration.

Now I've thought about this a little since your previous post.  It's been a while since I've done that so I thought about it and thought... what about "Shelly" devices?  They have a lot of EU devices and are expanding their US device line up.  They also have a very open API and support direct local integration via multiple integration friendly protocols including HTTP and MQTT.  Almost the perfect device for integrating and they are wifi.  Hmm..????  So I ordered a couple of the new US Shelly Plugs to play with.

Would a Shelly integration scratch the Wifi itch even though such a "official" supported Wifi would be vendor limited?  Is there another vendor with quality products and open integration which would be more preferred?

Or is the preference still a wild west approach of NodeServers being developed at random based on individuals at the time interest and then some supported and others abandoned as there's no accountability as they are free.

This is the primary reason open source projects such as Home Assistant and OpenHAB have hundreds or thousands of integrations some of them are excellent and some of them are FUBAR.  This discussion comes up on many forums about drivers, plugins, components whatever that platform calls them and people always point to the number of components available for Home Assistant as evidence of why it's great.  Reality.  Developers write code for two reasons.  Personal interest or Money.  Personal interest and use changes over time but paid products tend to survive the long as long as a product sells or has a subscription base then money is gained and development continues.

Will an official UDI Integration come from this?  I dunno only @Michel Kohanim can weigh in on that.  Will a Simplex Technology supported NodeServer come into play here?  I haven't decided yet.  An official integration takes time to develop and even more time to properly support such a thing.  Time is money after all.  So there are factors at play to weigh on this. 

Sorry to everyone for the rant.  Just my 2cents worth.

[madcodger]

@simplextech, we're certainly good. I would be happy to look at suppliers other than Wyze, and suggested them only based on limited experience with the devices and their price point. I've no experience with TP-link devices for this purpose (I have a couple of their hubs and a wifi USB, and they work well). I also have no experience with Shelly (although I once knew a young lady by that name, but that's definitely off topic). Anyway...

I'm just suggesting that moving beyond Insteon and Z-wave might be a reasonable move for UDI. If the devices are reliable, the price point is attractive, and units are easy obtained, I certainly have no real preference for a particular brand.

 

[asbril]

Please allow me a "side-track" question on wifi plugs.   A family member has a secondary home near me where they don't go very often. They have a Foscam  camera to monitor the home remotely but occasionally the camera logs off and then they ask me to go there and power cycle the camera for it to get wifi again. I am wondering if I put the camera on a wifi plug, can they then (with an App)  power cycle the camera remotely. If that works, what wifi plug would you recommend?

[Athlon]

1 minute ago, asbril said:

Please allow me a "side-track" question on wifi plugs.   A family member has a secondary home near me where they don't go very often. They have a Foscam  camera to monitor the home remotely but occasionally the camera logs off and then they ask me to go there and power cycle the camera for it to get wifi again. I am wondering if I put the camera on a wifi plug, can they then (with an App)  power cycle the camera remotely. If that works, what wifi plug would you recommend?

I have a TP-Link plug connected to a lamp in my 94 year old mother-in-law's house 125 miles away.  I can program it from here very easily with their free Kasa app.  That would easily solve their problem

[simplextech]

3 hours ago, madcodger said:

I'm just suggesting that moving beyond Insteon and Z-wave might be a reasonable move for UDI. If the devices are reliable, the price point is attractive, and units are easy obtained, I certainly have no real preference for a particular brand.

I agree it would be reasonable.  The issue is the enormous variety of fly by night Wifi devices that have flooded the market.  Which vendor to choose, how long will they be around.  Another issue that comes up from Wifi devices is most consumer Wifi being a router and built in access point have a pretty small device limit before the AP starts dropping connections.  The support noise that arises from users complaining just adds to the support cost of having to answer all of those complaints.

Wifi is a great option for small installations or for specific use cases but it's difficult in larger scenarios.

[larryllix]

3 hours ago, simplextech said:

I agree it would be reasonable.  The issue is the enormous variety of fly by night Wifi devices that have flooded the market.  Which vendor to choose, how long will they be around.  Another issue that comes up from Wifi devices is most consumer Wifi being a router and built in access point have a pretty small device limit before the AP starts dropping connections.  The support noise that arises from users complaining just adds to the support cost of having to answer all of those complaints.

Wifi is a great option for small installations or for specific use cases but it's difficult in larger scenarios.

My last router (ASUS RT-AC68u,  AC1900) started crashing out connections about 52 devices. On power up they just couldn't get an IP address assignment. Sometimes it was my ISY994. Sometimes it was my polisy that didn't get an IP address.

ISY using 0.0.0.0 for an IP address doesn't work too well.

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, simplextech said:

I agree it would be reasonable.  The issue is the enormous variety of fly by night Wifi devices that have flooded the market.  Which vendor to choose, how long will they be around.  Another issue that comes up from Wifi devices is most consumer Wifi being a router and built in access point have a pretty small device limit before the AP starts dropping connections.  The support noise that arises from users complaining just adds to the support cost of having to answer all of those complaints.

Wifi is a great option for small installations or for specific use cases but it's difficult in larger scenarios.

I can see this being the main reasons why UDI would want to stay as far away as possible with official support. Is it really worth the cost for a 8 dollar device from a company that will probably be gone a year from now. 

[madcodger]

The point about consumer routers/APs being a problem is excellent. But like most aspects of tech, that is likely to improve over time. So, to some degree, this is an issue of "where the puck IS, today". The question for a tech company, I propose, is where will the puck be in the future? Not my problem to a large extent, but it is the problem of a company I'd like to see remain successful. So, I bring up the idea and appreciate the debate. And, I note that I may be completely wrong in my thinking.

As for the "Oh, that company probably won't even be around in a year" comments, I usually just smile. I've been on the planet long enough to have heard that many times. There is little ability to predict it, given anything any of us know. I lost count of the number of times I heard it about Apple. And I remember people saying that Enron was the way of the future. So...

Anyway, support it, don't support it, do as you wish, UDI, and best wishes for your course of action. Personally, I think wifi support is worth exploring. Perhaps Leviton would be a better sort of partner, if "corporate stability" is the overarching factor. I just see the price point of Insteon and z-wave devices remaining high without any big improvements in reliability or utility (admittedly, I haven't tried the new 700 z-wave devices) while the price point of wifi falls even as reliability improves. The best CEO I ever worked for taught me to spot vectors, and follow them. When I look at these, I don't like where they go for some existing tech. Just sayin'...

 

[larryllix]

The thing I don't understand is this guarded API, that they all try to do. If some company would publish their API for their set of WiFi devices the developers could rush to support them on every platform. They would likely become the industry standard and corner most of the market.

As it is, these companies are basically guaranteeing their own obsolescence due to so much competition in the market. Trying to give the printer away and gouge the ink price doesn't seem to work in this field, because the app is usually free. It makes no sense.

Insteon is another one trying to do this. In other forums that is the retort to suggestions, most times. Insteon is an island and nobody wants to be captured there. Open up and become the industry standard workhorse. When I purchase $3000-$5000 worth of Insteon gadgets at $60 a device, what is left to sell with a closed API?  Your free software? Your hub for $99? What moronic marketing! For the massive remote control market crowd, the $10 WiFi device, cloud service, and $25 Alexa speaker will win out, every time.

[asbril]

1 hour ago, larryllix said:

The thing I don't understand is this guarded API, that they all try to do. If some company would publish their API for their set of WiFi devices the developers could rush to support them on every platform. They would likely become the industry standard and corner most of the market.

As it is, these companies are basically guaranteeing their own obsolescence due to so much competition in the market. Trying to give the printer away and gouge the ink price doesn't seem to work in this field, because the app is usually free. It makes no sense.

Insteon is another one trying to do this. In other forums that is the retort to suggestions, most times. Insteon is an island and nobody wants to be captured there. Open up and become the industry standard workhorse. When I purchase $3000-$5000 worth of Insteon gadgets at $60 a device, what is left to sell with a closed API?  Your free software? Your hub for $99? What moronic marketing! For the massive remote control market crowd, the $10 WiFi device, cloud service, and $25 Alexa speaker will win out, every time.

remember how Apple was almost on the brink, before the return of Steve Jobs and the Iphone, when their superior MAC lost to Windows because of their closed OS ?

[lilyoyo1]

4 hours ago, madcodger said:

The point about consumer routers/APs being a problem is excellent. But like most aspects of tech, that is likely to improve over time. So, to some degree, this is an issue of "where the puck IS, today". The question for a tech company, I propose, is where will the puck be in the future? Not my problem to a large extent, but it is the problem of a company I'd like to see remain successful. So, I bring up the idea and appreciate the debate. And, I note that I may be completely wrong in my thinking.

As for the "Oh, that company probably won't even be around in a year" comments, I usually just smile. I've been on the planet long enough to have heard that many times. There is little ability to predict it, given anything any of us know. I lost count of the number of times I heard it about Apple. And I remember people saying that Enron was the way of the future. So...

Anyway, support it, don't support it, do as you wish, UDI, and best wishes for your course of action. Personally, I think wifi support is worth exploring. Perhaps Leviton would be a better sort of partner, if "corporate stability" is the overarching factor. I just see the price point of Insteon and z-wave devices remaining high without any big improvements in reliability or utility (admittedly, I haven't tried the new 700 z-wave devices) while the price point of wifi falls even as reliability improves. The best CEO I ever worked for taught me to spot vectors, and follow them. When I look at these, I don't like where they go for some existing tech. Just sayin'...

 

You aren't missing much with 700 right now. There's a lot of devices going through certification but they aren't on the market yet. Besides, you'll need a 700 series controller to take advantage of that. Most likely you won't see much of a difference in your hard wired devices if you have a strong network already.

I question the longevity of a company when the prices are extremely low. Of course we all want low prices but those in the race to the bottom will always lose to the cheaper person.This limits their growth overall as consumers jump to the "next big thing (in this case the cheapest)". At some point they'll go out of business due to consumers fleeing, wanting more than they can provide, or running up on the limitations and blaming "the cheap devices".

I think many people here forget they aren't the avg consumer when it comes to electronics and technology. We'll do what it takes to make sure our networks run smoothly and can handle what we thrown at it. The avg person simply uses the router the cable company provides which isn't designed for a house full of wifi devices. If they do get their own router, they'll generally get something on the lower end which puts them in the same place. Ditto for configuration. 

You're right about routers and APs advancing  over time. They already have.....Tremendously! However, routers and access points are like smartphone batteries. Regardless of how much they improve or grow larger, the technology they are used with also progresses at the same time using those newfound resources. The more they add, the more everyone else is going to pull from it. The 1 constant....people looking for cheap/free and being willing to settle for good enough. 

Look at streaming 5 years ago compared to now. Imagine 8k with HDR and Dolby Atmos streaming in the next 5 and whatever lies beyond....

 

[madcodger]

Thanks for your input.

 

[asbril]

After reading the above posts I purchased a $ 9 Kasa plug, installed the Kasa Nodeserver and I am surprised how well this works. It took me while to connect the plug to the Kasa App (IOS) because my Google Wifi router defaults to 5 ghz, but got it working after a few tries.

This seems to be a decent alternative for those wanting to save a few $$. 

[MrBill]

18 hours ago, asbril said:

After reading the above posts I purchased a $ 9 Kasa plug, installed the Kasa Nodeserver and I am surprised how well this works. It took me while to connect the plug to the Kasa App (IOS) because my Google Wifi router defaults to 5 ghz, but got it working after a few tries.

This seems to be a decent alternative for those wanting to save a few $$. 

I had the same experience.  I needed to order 6- 2635's Insteon ON/OFF modules for my wife's new indoor greenhouse project.  I had planned to order 2 5-packs from the Labor Day Sale at Smarthome, but when the Labor Day Sale arrived, that product was excluded.   I thought 25% off was bad, but no way will I order that product for the full list prices of 49.95.

I ordered 2 3 packs (3 for $21) of the Kasa plug from Amazon, they arrived Saturday morning. Had them working quickly.  So instead of 474.50 (full price of 2, 5-packs) or about $355 for 25% off.  I spent $42.... I guess time will tell, but even if I have to replace them all every year its still far less expensive.

[Athlon]

I've been using TP-Link plugs for years (since right after they came out) for mostly Christmas lights and candles in the windows (about 20 of them).  None have failed yet, nor have any failed to receive and execute a signal.  They've been rock solid even though I box then up at the end of every January and bring them back out in late November.  I don't even have to re-program them.

I have a strip of masking tape labeled with a Sharpie on the back of each one telling me which window or spot in the house (like the Christmas tree, village under tree etc.) they go to. 

Because of their reliability and low cost, I have about 6 of them in year round use as well - all of which are in spots that are hidden from view.