zxplod Posted July 3, 2019 Posted July 3, 2019 Hi, I am having an issue where my ISY and is showing that devices current state is different than what the device actually is. For example, I have 6 fanlincs. I have a scene and program so that they turn all off and on. They are all set to turn off at 2am. Only a couple of them will turn actually turn off. On the ISY it shows that they are all off. Even stranger, if you query each device on the ISY then it corrects itself and shows that their true status of "on". Someone suggested replacing the PLM so I replaced that with a new one. What else could be causing this? Thanks so much, -David
oberkc Posted July 3, 2019 Posted July 3, 2019 My understanding is that, absent a response from the device, the ISY will assume it is a state commanded by the ISY. In other words, if the ISY commands something to be off, but the device fails to respond, the ISY will assume it is off. Yes, a failing PLM could cause this. Other things that could cause communication failures are: - devices on your electrical system causing interference or signal degradation. As a first step, I would make sure that the PLM is not on an outlet or circuit that includes other electronics, including computer stuff. - communication between legs of your electrical system is not established. This is typically done through the radio waves side of insteon. Make sure you have confirmed this communication using the methods described in the various user manuals. Last I checked, the manuals called it the "beacon" test. I have also heard it called "four-tap" test. When you run the program manually, do they all turn off or only a couple? Are they always the same couple that respond or is the response more random? You can try temporarily moving the PLM to a different circuit (using a long extension cord if more convenient) to see if the response changes.
zxplod Posted July 3, 2019 Author Posted July 3, 2019 Hi Overkc! Thanks for the response. If I tap to turn the scene twice then everything will turn off/on. All 6 ceiling fans are in a row with each one about 10 feet apart so it is very odd that they don't pass the signal from one to the next. I have tried putting the PLM about two feet from the first fan and they still didn't all respond. It is very frustrating. Thank you, -David
oberkc Posted July 3, 2019 Posted July 3, 2019 I agree. It is a little strange. Do you know whether all ceiling fans are on the same circuit breaker? While I understand that the PLM could be dual-band, and that one would expect the radio waves to carry the signal, make sure you move the PLM to a different electrical circuit. When you "tap" to turn on the scene, is this from another insteon device? Do you get the same response when you turn the scene on from the admin panel? I suspect your communication problems are between PLM and ceiling fans.
zxplod Posted July 3, 2019 Author Posted July 3, 2019 Hi Oberkc, I use mobilinc. I have confirmed that the mobilinc is properly communicating with the ISY. Inside the ISY admin panel it is saying that the devices are in a different state than they actually are. I have tried several outlets/circuits. The weirdest thing to me that really surprises me is that the ISY is able to query and gather the correct status of the devices yet this problem exists. It appears that the ISY just blindly barks orders to devices but does not confirm that those orders were carried out even though it is apparently capable of it. Why doesn't it communicate two ways since it is capable? I'm sure there's a reason but it just seems like a major shortcoming of ISY/Insteon. Really it should confirm all orders are carried out and if one fails for whatever reason then should send a notification. Just seems like the common sense way that it would be set up. Weird. Thank you, -David
paulbates Posted July 3, 2019 Posted July 3, 2019 Your initial post indicates that you are issuing a scene command. Scenes are not validated, they are fire and forget. Also it sounds like its a problem for off only, which could indicate that a number of fans combined are creating line noise. This might be a case where it would be better to turn each device off one at a time in the program. and put a 2 second wait between each command for the acknolwedgement to return, rather than a scene. Paul
zxplod Posted July 3, 2019 Author Posted July 3, 2019 Hi Paul! “Scenes are fire and forget” That’s potentially very helpful info. Are some commands validated? For instance if I turn a device off individually is it validated? Thank you, -David
paulbates Posted July 3, 2019 Posted July 3, 2019 Just now, zxplod said: Hi Paul! “Scenes are fire and forget” That’s potentially very helpful info. Are some commands validated? For instance if I turn a device off individually is it validated? Thank you, -David Yes, all individual device commands are acknowledged up to the number of times they are configured for. For scenes, you could end up in the same spot if many devices are commanded on/off at the same time and they all acknowledge at the same moment. All of those acknowledgements would come back at the same time and collide with each other. Paul
zxplod Posted July 3, 2019 Author Posted July 3, 2019 Perfect. I will try this today and do a program as you suggested. Can you please explain what you mean by “acknowledged up to the number of times they’re configured for”?
paulbates Posted July 3, 2019 Posted July 3, 2019 There is a feature for newer devices to configure retries with the PLM that can be tweaked. You right click on the device in the admin console and pick advanced, then PLM communication. If the device supports it, you can configure how many times it tries to send a message to the PLM. I think the default it 2. Its better to work out communication / noise issues and ramp up retries. Because you're using a scene, I don't think this will help in your case. Paul
zxplod Posted July 4, 2019 Author Posted July 4, 2019 Hi @paulbates. I just tried changing the PLM communication settings for the ceiling fan controllers. It says "This device does not support PLM communication settings". Could that be a clue to my problem? They are several years old. Could that be the issue? Here are the ones I have: https://www.insteon.com/ceiling-fan-controller. Thank you, -David
paulbates Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 4 hours ago, zxplod said: Hi @paulbates. I just tried changing the PLM communication settings for the ceiling fan controllers. It says "This device does not support PLM communication settings". Could that be a clue to my problem? They are several years old. Could that be the issue? Here are the ones I have: https://www.insteon.com/ceiling-fan-controller. Thank you, -David Hi David No, that's not the problem. I have a mix of devices that support / don't support it. Something is going on with communications, potentially because all the fans are on at the same time. Either turn them off one at a time, or re-execute the scene command after waiting 2 seconds. Paul
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