Insteon keypad, linking and scenes ???

[NJBILLT]

If I link a button to an Insteon device, will the button status stay in sync with the device when the module is controlled locally, or from a program in ISY?  in Other words, if I turn button A on manually, it lights up as on, if ISY turn the "device" off with a program, will the button go off as well?  So far, I have created a scene, and when I control the scene, this happens.  But I don't think that's the best way.  And is there a way to link a button without having access to the device?  (it's under my deck)  I am trying to relate things to the Insteon plug-in for HS2.  

[paulbates]

43 minutes ago, NJBILLT said:

If I link a button to an Insteon device, will the button status stay in sync with the device when the module is controlled locally, or from a program in ISY?   Yes

in Other words, if I turn button A on manually, it lights up as on, if ISY turn the "device" off with a program, will the button go off as well?  Yes

So far, I have created a scene, and when I control the scene, this happens.  But I don't think that's the best way.  And is there a way to link a button without having access to the device?  (it's under my deck)  I am trying to relate things to the Insteon plug-in for HS2.  There are 2 methods to add Insteon devices on the ISY on the Link Menu; 1) Start Linking, which requires the set button being pressed, and 2) New Insteon Device.  The second option is how you link from your chair without putting the device in linking mode. You will need the insteon id. Either of these methods is only needed to add the device to the ISY. The link button is not required to add or change scenes

Paul

[oberkc]

44 minutes ago, NJBILLT said:

If I link a button to an Insteon device, will the button status stay in sync with the device when the module is controlled locally, or from a program in ISY?

I would say that would depend on whether the insteon device is defined as controller or responder.  Furthermore, if the insteon device is commanded directly by a program, the button would not stay in sync.  Commanding the scene is a good option for this.

So far, I have created a scene, and when I control the scene, this happens.  But I don't think that's the best way. 

Why not?

 

[NJBILLT]

24 minutes ago, paulbates said:

There are 2 methods to add Insteon devices on the ISY on the Link Menu; 1) Start Linking, which requires the set button being pressed, and 2) New Insteon Device.  The second option is how you link from your chair without putting the device in linking mode. You will need the insteon id. Either of these methods is only needed to add the device to the ISY. The link button is not required to add or change scenes

1. Okay well that answers the question as to whether I need access to the device.  I do have all my addresses in a spreadsheet, but I guess to do what I want without a scene, the button and the device would have to BOTH be a controller and responder.   Replying to Paul's why not regarding creating a scene to trigger instead of the device, it just creates a lot of nodes and gets confusing when I have button A device and button A scene.  I guess once I have all the scenes created I can hide the button "device" so I don't get confused when I create a program to control them.  

[paulbates]

"Why not" was oberkc's question, but I agree with him.  

Scenes are a fundemental feature of insteon. I have a number of "virtural cirtcuits" linking keypads and multiple switches. I never want to control any of them individually, only with the scene... the individual switches can be put in a folder in this case if it helps make it less confusing.

Paul

[lilyoyo1]

51 minutes ago, NJBILLT said:

1. Okay well that answers the question as to whether I need access to the device.  I do have all my addresses in a spreadsheet, but I guess to do what I want without a scene, the button and the device would have to BOTH be a controller and responder.   Replying to Paul's why not regarding creating a scene to trigger instead of the device, it just creates a lot of nodes and gets confusing when I have button A device and button A scene.  I guess once I have all the scenes created I can hide the button "device" so I don't get confused when I create a program to control them.  

 If you want a button to stay in sync it must be done with scenes with each added as controllers (in the case of multiway) Yes you are creating additional links in your plm. However relying on programs to keep things in sync will hurt you more as commands could be missed for different reasons. 

The important thing is how you name stuff. For example, if button B is for your family room chandeliers, you can add the switches and Button B to your scene (all as controllers) and name it Chandelier. There are no additional labels you would need since the scene is all that you have to worry about for your program.

In my setup, there are times that I want to turn the backlight off on a button. For those cases, I create a scene label the button and put ZZZ's in front of it (they are also in their own folder). This way I know exactly what it's for and it's easy to find. 

[jec6613]

3 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

 If you want a button to stay in sync it must be done with scenes with each added as controllers (in the case of multiway) Yes you are creating additional links in your plm. However relying on programs to keep things in sync will hurt you more as commands could be missed for different reasons. 

The important thing is how you name stuff. For example, if button B is for your family room chandeliers, you can add the switches and Button B to your scene (all as controllers) and name it Chandelier. There are no additional labels you would need since the scene is all that you have to worry about for your program.

In my setup, there are times that I want to turn the backlight off on a button. For those cases, I create a scene label the button and put ZZZ's in front of it (they are also in their own folder). This way I know exactly what it's for and it's easy to find.  

I do something pretty similar for when I want to control the buttons directly and independently.  The scene is the primary method, but when you have buttons and dimmers on a single scene, it creates percentage readout issues on mobile apps, so I use the load directly and then have a quick program to sync the buttons when the load is off or not off.  Since the ISY handles it all, the lag is less than a second or so.

Normally, day to day, I just use the scenes and press keypad buttons.

[NJBILLT]

6 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

 If you want a button to stay in sync it must be done with scenes with each added as controllers (in the case of multiway) Yes you are creating additional links in your plm. However relying on programs to keep things in sync will hurt you more as commands could be missed for different reasons. 

The important thing is how you name stuff. For example, if button B is for your family room chandeliers, you can add the switches and Button B to your scene (all as controllers) and name it Chandelier. There are no additional labels you would need since the scene is all that you have to worry about for your program.

In my setup, there are times that I want to turn the backlight off on a button. For those cases, I create a scene label the button and put ZZZ's in front of it (they are also in their own folder). This way I know exactly what it's for and it's easy to find. 

Thank you.  This is pretty much what I came up with just fooling around with it,  but wanted to know if I was doing it the best way.  I can work with this.  It's really no different than the Insteon Plug-in for HS2 that I'm familiar with.  One thing about this ISY I don't get though is, in the web app, all I see are my scenes and/or devices with on/off buttons, (and dim % if it's a dimmer) in a portrait format like it's designed for a mobile device.  It this not customizable?  Will it not use an entire computer monitor?  And where can I see when I device was last triggered?  HS had a lot more info in the web app.  I thought this thing would even log usage.  I've only been playing for a day or 2, but I can't see how that works anywhere.  

[lilyoyo1]

4 minutes ago, NJBILLT said:

Thank you.  This is pretty much what I came up with just fooling around with it,  but wanted to know if I was doing it the best way.  I can work with this.  It's really no different than the Insteon Plug-in for HS2 that I'm familiar with.  One thing about this ISY I don't get though is, in the web app, all I see are my scenes and/or devices with on/off buttons, (and dim % if it's a dimmer) in a portrait format like it's designed for a mobile device.  It this not customizable?  Will it not use an entire computer monitor?  And where can I see when I device was last triggered?  HS had a lot more info in the web app.  I thought this thing would even log usage.  I've only been playing for a day or 2, but I can't see how that works anywhere.  

What web app are you using? With the ISY, you should be using the admin console for configuring your devices.

To me, scenes are the best way to configure your system even though there is no right or wrong way to do something. I like scenes because the house will still work without the isy. I may lose convenience items such as timers and stuff but regular control of my devices will still function otherwise

[NJBILLT]

17 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

What web app are you using? With the ISY, you should be using the admin console for configuring your devices.

To me, scenes are the best way to configure your system even though there is no right or wrong way to do something. I like scenes because the house will still work without the isy. I may lose convenience items such as timers and stuff but regular control of my devices will still function otherwise

I did use the admin console to configure, but to control I am using this (see attachment) and even there, while I can control the devices and scenes, they don't change state.  I can't tell what's on/off or when it's been triggered.  

[lilyoyo1]

Sorry, can't help you with that one. I've never used the dashboard to control devices

[NJBILLT]

Dashboard.  That's what it's called.  How do you control things?  

[paulbates]

The dashboard looks similar but is a separate ISY java app that is typically not used / needed. In your case you're using the built in Web UI that looks identical for device control.

You can try the Home Automation Dashboard, HAD, by following the directions here. I believe it refeshes periodically. Since I'm not a mobile app user, HAD is my backup plan / go to for control outside of the house. I've customized it a little for my house status needs.

Paul

[NJBILLT]

2 minutes ago, paulbates said:

The dashboard looks similar but is a separate ISY java app that is typically not used / needed. In your case you're using the built in Web UI that looks identical for device control.

You can try the Home Automation Dashboard, HAD, by following the directions here. I believe it refeshes periodically. Since I'm not a mobile app user, HAD is my backup plan / go to for control outside of the house. I've customized it a little for my house status needs.

Paul

Thank you.  I'l give that a try.  Bear with me.  This is ISY is new to me and the only thing I can relate it to is HS

[NJBILLT]

7 minutes ago, NJBILLT said:

Thank you.  I'l give that a try.  Bear with me.  This is ISY is new to me and the only thing I can relate it to is HS

okay I looked at that, but it still is lacking the parameters I thought I would see.  For example, I'm on vacation, and I want to check in and see when the last time an Insteon motion sensor was triggered.  Can I get that remotely?  Can I graph how many times and when it was triggered?  

[paulbates]

1 minute ago, NJBILLT said:

Thank you.  I'l give that a try.  Bear with me.  This is ISY is new to me and the only thing I can relate it to is HS

I get that :).   If you want remote control for the ISY, there are these options:

1. Default web ui and HAD. Both are basic, and HAD has a sub forum that describes how to modify its JSON extensions, but its not active recently.
2. Mobile apps. A number to choose from, some kept up-to-date, some older. Some free, some pay for.
3. Internet speakers Alexa and Google

I use 1 very infrequently. I sometimes think I'm last one using HAD. My automation doesn't need much remote control so I've used it for HVAC runtimes and status when I replaced heaters a few years back. Aurguably I don't use it much. 

We also have an echo that is nice for the lighting in our kitchen/family room area.

Paul

[NJBILLT]

2 minutes ago, paulbates said:

I get that :).   If you want remote control for the ISY, there are these options:

1. Default web ui and HAD. Both are basic, and HAD has a sub forum that describes how to modify its JSON extensions, but its not active recently.
2. Mobile apps. A number to choose from, some kept up-to-date, some older. Some free, some pay for.
3. Internet speakers Alexa and Google

I use 1 very infrequently. I sometimes think I'm last one using HAD. My automation doesn't need much remote control so I've used it for HVAC runtimes and status when I replaced heaters a few years back. Aurguably I don't use it much. 

We also have an echo that is nice for the lighting in our kitchen/family room area.

Paul

I have to say, for as long as this product has been around, I an astonished it doesn't have a better GUI.  It reminds me of an old X-10 program I had running on Windows 95.  

[simplextech]

9 minutes ago, NJBILLT said:

okay I looked at that, but it still is lacking the parameters I thought I would see.  For example, I'm on vacation, and I want to check in and see when the last time an Insteon motion sensor was triggered.  Can I get that remotely?  Can I graph how many times and when it was triggered?  

By default/builtin to all your questions above.  No.

Last time an Inteon motion sensor was triggered:  ISY admin console doesn't even show this.  You will have to go through the event log to find this data.  Get it remotely?  You can download the excel file and read through it.  Graph it?  You can graph the data in excel or you can find an existing or write a new module to pull the data from the ISY into a DB and then use something like Graphana to graph the data. 

As a HS user myself there's a world of difference between the systems and each have their own strengths and weakness.  I'm hopeful the new Polisy will have a new interface, support for string data types, have a more flexible "node"/device structure for dynamic string data representation and some other items on my want list......

[paulbates]

 

8 minutes ago, NJBILLT said:

I have to say, for as long as this product has been around, I an astonished it doesn't have a better GUI.  It reminds me of an old X-10 program I had running on Windows 95.  

UDI is razor focused on the core product and integration, and they openly state this is not a priority space they want to fill. There are some interesting mobile options that requires digging around on the forum. The ones that aren't free typically have a free trial period. Personally I've settled on using ISY programs and calender/systems/sensors to automate and don't need to remote control anything.

[lilyoyo1]

51 minutes ago, NJBILLT said:

Dashboard.  That's what it's called.  How do you control things?  

I rely on the ISY to automate most things for me. I use my remotes/keypads, and voice for when I want to control something. I get alerts for the things I want to know information on so I don't have to check logs etc.

For me, having to look at logs, needing to control from a phone etc. is too much work for what I invested. This should make life easier and convenient not cause me to do things I ordinarily wouldn't do

[oberkc]

2 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Sorry, can't help you with that one. I've never used the dashboard to control devices

I am more like the others.  I don't really have a strong use-case for control of devices from a phone.  When I want to turn on a light or device at home, I use the switches.  I find that easier.

For the occasional remote control options, I use mobilinc on android tablets and set up widgets on the home screen (android).  I have also played around with the google home hub and echo devices, but voice control just doesn't excite me that much.  The touch screen devices (home hub and echo show) have a viable control option, but I just don't need manual control that much.  I like automation better.

[NJBILLT]

42 minutes ago, oberkc said:

I am more like the others.  I don't really have a strong use-case for control of devices from a phone.  When I want to turn on a light or device at home, I use the switches.  I find that easier.

For the occasional remote control options, I use mobilinc on android tablets and set up widgets on the home screen (android).  I have also played around with the google home hub and echo devices, but voice control just doesn't excite me that much.  The touch screen devices (home hub and echo show) have a viable control option, but I just don't need manual control that much.  I like automation better.

It wasn't as much for control as it is for status. Right now, I'm sitting at a desktop computer with a 29" curved monitor that I use 8 hours a day, with 2 side monitors.  One has a split screen showing my 8 security cameras, and the other half my Homeseer status.  I like to know what's going on, not to have to sift through logs in a spreadsheet.  As for control, I rarely touch a light switch but rather let the programs just run.  But there are times when I want to initiate a scene, like the 11 PM dim down because my wife is going to bed early.  This is easily done by the desktop GUI if I'm still sitting there, or on any of the tablets we have laying around that I made a HTML touchscreen interface for.  I use that in the Home Theater as well.  I'm afraid the GUI for ISY isn't going to cut it for me.  I did look at the paid apps, and that's great for Android or iOS, but I'm not going to run an Android emulator on Windows so I can control things.  Even those apps weren't clear if you get graphing or last time initiated.  

[lilyoyo1]

13 minutes ago, NJBILLT said:

It wasn't as much for control as it is for status. Right now, I'm sitting at a desktop computer with a 29" curved monitor that I use 8 hours a day, with 2 side monitors.  One has a split screen showing my 8 security cameras, and the other half my Homeseer status.  I like to know what's going on, not to have to sift through logs in a spreadsheet.  As for control, I rarely touch a light switch but rather let the programs just run.  But there are times when I want to initiate a scene, like the 11 PM dim down because my wife is going to bed early.  This is easily done by the desktop GUI if I'm still sitting there, or on any of the tablets we have laying around that I made a HTML touchscreen interface for.  I use that in the Home Theater as well.  I'm afraid the GUI for ISY isn't going to cut it for me.  I did look at the paid apps, and that's great for Android or iOS, but I'm not going to run an Android emulator on Windows so I can control things.  Even those apps weren't clear if you get graphing or last time initiated.  

If you're looking for that level of control and awareness then the ISY probably isn't for you. It's designed more as a set and forget type of system. I'm not much on using apps. I have RTI as mine but can't remember the last time I used it.

It's easier for me to hit a button on my kpl to set my goodnight program going and forget about it (or when the tv turns off during certain hours). For things that I am concerned about, a simple notification is enough for me. Some I get when I'm home while others I receive when I'm away. 

[oberkc]

12 hours ago, NJBILLT said:

I did look at the paid apps, and that's great for Android or iOS, but I'm not going to run an Android emulator on Windows so I can control things. 

I am unaware of any windows (or, for that matter, OSX) apps that provide the kind of interface you seek.  Beyond the configuration through admin panel, I just don't use the PC to control (or monitor) my lighting.

[Michel Kohanim]

@NJBILLT,

You may have forgotten the default web browser interface that you can use at all times without apps or the Admin Console:

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-994i_Initial_Browser_Screen 

With kind regards,
Michel