2852-222 Leak Sensor support?

[Chuck K]

Wondering if anyone can advise me how often the LINK SENSOR HEARTBEAT is polled on an Insteon Leak Sensor model 2852-222 connected to my ISY 994i/IR Pro running v.4.7.3

Basically, I was able to get this sensor linked and 'mostly' functional using the LINK A NEW INSTEON DEVICE option under the LINK MANAGEMENT tab (This device does NOT appear under the LINK A SENSOR option). I had to select the device type from the drop down menu once in the LINK A NEW DEVICE screen because letting it try to figure out the device type on its on results in a message stating the ISY can't find the appropriate library (or something to that effect). Once I selected the correct model number from the list of available Insteon Leak Sensors (several were listed), the link seemed to proceed normally and three new device lines appeared in my list of active devices:

Link Sensor Dry

Link Sensor Wet

Link Sensor Heartbeat

The dry and wet items reflect complementary values (on or off) which seem to 'latch' correctly (ie; dry = on and wet = off by default, but once the contacts on the sensor detect a short dry = off and wet = on). I've noticed that the only way to reset these values to their default state is to remove the battery from the sensor for 10 seconds and then reinsert it - merely removing it from water and drying off the sensor contacts will NOT reset it. I'm assuming this is by design). I also assume that the heartbeat function periodically polled the device to insure it responded so that if not, you could set off some kind of alarm. However, this is where I've run into a problem: I've left the battery out of the sensor for more than two hours now and the ISY still reports the Heartbeat as "ON" and I've got to believe polling is more frequent than that since in the event of a burst water pipe, you could flood an entire floor area in two hours.

Anyone have any ideas? Since everything else appears to work fine, I'm assuming the device is not defective, but that's why I'm posing the question here. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated! 

[jec6613]

The heartbeat polls at 12-23 hour intervals, more or less.  And it will only send On, so that's all the ISY will report.

You can set a program to, "If Sensor is switched on," and set a variable to 1, then clear it every day.

You should also be able to reset wet/dry by pressing the button on the leak sensor, or waiting until the next heartbeat.

[Chuck K]

Thanks so much for your prompt response. I'll watch it closely over the weekend to see if it indeed responds that way. So far, there's been no evidence of a heartbeat. HOWEVER, power cycling the sensor (battery removed for 5 minutes) restored capability to reset wet/dry via the button as you indicated. That's a LOT better than having to pop it apart every time (granted, really an issue only while testing, but....). Thanks again!

[larryllix]

6 hours ago, Chuck K said:

Thanks so much for your prompt response. I'll watch it closely over the weekend to see if it indeed responds that way. So far, there's been no evidence of a heartbeat. HOWEVER, power cycling the sensor (battery removed for 5 minutes) restored capability to reset wet/dry via the button as you indicated. That's a LOT better than having to pop it apart every time (granted, really an issue only while testing, but....). Thanks again!

Insteon devices do not get "Polled". They report by an event to ISY.

Every time you remove the battery from the LD the heartbeat clock interval starts over. LD send out a heartbeat signal every 24 hours only to save battery usage. Apparently, some LDs send out an On every time. Mine send On and Off alternately, every 24 hours.

The Heartbeat detection program does NOT poll the LD, it run alarming program portions if the Wait 25 hours times out. The heartbeat should reset the program section running and start the Wait 25 hours over again so that the alarm portion never runs.

After detecting Wet the LD must be reset by manually tapping the button. This ensures you check the wet spot before turning the water back on.

[jec6613]

1 hour ago, larryllix said:

After detecting Wet the LD must be reset by manually tapping the button. This ensures you check the wet spot before turning the water back on.

And this is why I use a Z-Wave remote probe in my sump pit.  Also because remote probes on the Insteon sensors are a royal pain.  It has a level alarm about 1/2 an inch above the normal maximum level, so I know almost immediately if the pump is getting overwhelmed, but it can clear itself if the pump catches up.  The second sensor is about 2" below the top of the pit, and is basically the, "Fix or replace NOW!!!" alarm.

As we discovered when a contractor left the sump unplugged after doing some work, it takes about a week of heavy rain to fill our sump pit.  That's also when I installed the detector - I don't want to be caught unawares to something like that again.

I do use the Insteon detectors in all of my bathrooms, laundry, kitchen, etc.  Their simplicity and inexpensive price and long battery life make them ideal.

[Chuck K]

Thanks to larryllix for the clarification.... and to jec6613 for the info and suggestion. I'd be interested in knowing what specific ZWave sensor jec6613 is using as I may want to get one!

My specific situation with the Insteon leak detector was to try and create a simple fail-safe option to shut off my well pump. To shorten what would be a very long story, suffice to say that my well pump fills a 300+ gallon tank in my basement from which a Reverse Osmosis system pulls water (the output of which is stored in another 300+ gallon tank). The standard pressure switch exists on the well side of the system, which would be fine if there was a small, pressurized storage tank between the well and house plumbing as is typical in well systems. Since mine dumps into an 'atmospheric tank' (not pressurized), the pressure switch is ineffective and the contractor installed a float switch on the tank which serves to shut off the well once the tank is full. Seemed logical, but I discovered (the hard way) the float switch he used can get jammed/stuck. When that happened, there really wasn't anything to stop the well pump from running (aside from the main breaker panel getting shorted out), and there is no floor drain anywhere in a fairly large finished basement. The resulting damages were staggering.

So now I'm so paranoid I'm building another small basement to house the tanks and RO system which is completely separated from the house other than for a sealed chase through which electrical and plumbing will run. I've been installing every option I can think of to both prevent pump overrun as well as detect it and shut it down along with killing power to the entire system. The easiest way I could think of to achieve the latter was through the use of 30Amp Insteon load controllers which feed the RO, well pump and other associated pumps used in the system since that would give me easy remote control over every individual power feed. The idea was the leak sensors could also initiate shutdown of each or all load controllers as well, and the ISY could not only monitor and alert me to these processes, but act as an additional backup to issue repetitive OFF commands to the load controllers in the event that the leak sensors (as controllers of the Insteon 30 amp contactors) failed to do so (like I said, I'm paranoid at this point!).

Consequently, I'd certainly consider adding ZWave sensors as an additional tier of protection if I knew which were genuinely good, reliable units. I just don't think I could stand going through another 'avoidable' flood like this was. Gave me a whole new level of respect and admiration for the poor souls whose homes are destroyed by natural disasters and yet have the capacity to clean it all up and rebuild only to face the same thing years later... Even then, it's one thing when Mother Nature inflicts the damage, it's quite another when inadequate design causes it!

[jec6613]

I use the Aeotec (link below) with the dock.  The probes, and the sensor itself, are waterproof, and the dock lets me USB power it so the battery will last indefinitely.  You could even get two of them if you wanted four sensor heights, and they sell a lasso sensor as well.

https://aeotec.com/z-wave-water-sensor/

https://aeotec.com/professional-z-wave-water-leak-tool/

It still needs the ISY to be there, so having an Insteon sensor as well is usually a good idea since it can direct link to a well pump shutoff.