Thermostats with local API

[endobiker]

I am considering upgrading my thermostats so that I can control with the mighty ISY. I've seen others post that the Venstar ColorTouch T7900 has a local API and does not require cloud involvement. Do all the thermostat's supported by NodeLink have local APIs? I see that Honeywell Total Connect Comfort thermostats are supported- do they have local APIs too?

 

[io_guy]

No Honeywell and Ecobee are cloud.  I wouldn't touch the Honeywell, it's not a published API.   

If local is a must, go Venstar.  

If cloud is ok, Ecobee.  

I wish I never wrote the Honeywell device code.  

[endobiker]

Thanks, @io_guy.

I am debating the cloud vs local. At first, I was thinking about the Nest, especially because of the great review at Consumer Reports. The uncertainty about whether the Nest nodeserver will continue functioning now that Google is changing the API up, has me thinking local API may be best.

I don't usually wear a tin-foil hat, but I'd prefer not to buy something that stops working....

[larryllix]

Most of the fancy stuff in the Nest ends up being turned off after users find out how it works. I have two sons that got sold on those things and both have much of the features disabled.

Like ioguy posted above. If you want no cloud get a Venstar Touch. If you want a better quality stat with less temp drift and features that can handle humidifiers, dehumidifiers, HRVs, intelligent fan cycling, and reconnects after network failures, get an ecobee.

[Bumbershoot]

39 minutes ago, endobiker said:

The uncertainty about whether the Nest nodeserver will continue functioning now that Google is changing the API up, has me thinking local API may be best.

If you had a Nest and the Nest node server installed prior to August 1st, then it continues to work as long as the installation is unchanged (mine is still working).  For a test, I just tried to add a PGC Nest node server and the installation failed, as expected.  I'll change to Venstar or Ecobee before the year is out.

[paulbates]

FWIW I've had 2 of the venstar colortouchs for almost 5 years and I'm really happy with them: Built in HVAC Features (the T7900 supports humidity control), Nodelink support and ISY programming though Nodelink. One of my requirements for anything in the house is local API and the time I invested in the Venstars has been worth it partly due to that.

It does have a separate feature you can turn on/off with a cloud service that supports it weather display, mobile apps and remote web config page.

Paul

[lilyoyo1]

Local vs cloud...the great debate never ends. I'm in the local camp as I don't want my system to depend on another person's servers.

With that said, I use the Ecobee 3 and have loved it from the start. For the most part, it's basic function as a thermostat is not tied to internet access so even if something happens it will still work. 

I'm willing for cloud based with my ecobee since the isy is not needed for it's primary function. The Ecobee does a great job of that on it's own. 

While I do have mine tied to the isy, it is for additional convenience enhancements rather than actual programming of the thermostat. Personally, I would rather leave that out of the hands of the isy. For me, while the ISY has been rock solid, it's still 1 more device that can fail. When it comes down to my HVAC working properly, I don't want to take any chances. My TVs or Sonos not working isn't a big deal. No loss there. However the things that can go wrong with HVAC is. 

[paulbates]

51 minutes ago, larryllix said:

Like ioguy posted above. If you want no cloud get a Venstar Touch. If you want a better quality stat with less temp drift and features that can handle humidifiers, dehumidifiers, HRVs, intelligent fan cycling, and reconnects after network failures, get an ecobee.

The venstar can do humidifiers / dehumidifiers if you get the T7900... its the T7850 does not have humidity support. The T7900 has automatic hvac fan cycling support in the stat and also supported by nodelink, automatically reconnects to its web service (skyport cloud) for weather updates and mobile app, if that feature is turned on.. but its not required, its separate from the local API and can be turned off. Because local API control is REST based, its stateless so there is no reconnect required for the local api.  I had problems with skyport cloud features (not local api) in the ~2015 timeframe, but not recently. I think the ecobee needs it because their service has had issues in the past and nodeservers have to figure that out and persistenly try to get back in.

I know the discussions have gone on here on temp drift, I don't witness that across 2 orginal T5900s and now 2 T7900s. I've used standalone accurite sensors around the living space, even set them on top of the venstar to compare to the stat reading and it works for me.

[Bumbershoot]

29 minutes ago, paulbates said:

Built in HVAC Features (the T7900 supports humidity control), Nodelink support and ISY programming though Nodelink.

I need the humidity control of the T7900.  Provided there's NodeLink support on the Polisy when it's released, the local API and remote sensors will likely seal the deal for me.  Plus, it's less expensive than the Ecobee.  I've got to deal with the WAF, so that could influence things.

10 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I'm in the local camp as I don't want my system to depend on another person's servers.

I'm getting more and more that way.  My ISP is a bit of a PITA, but I don't rely much on my ISY for thermostat control, mostly turning it off/on when doors and windows are left open in the summer.  Still, I'd prefer local control unless there's no reasonable choice.  The "Works with Nest" fiasco has nudged me there.

[endobiker]

@paulbates- great feedback on the Venstar.

Admittedly, the Venstar T7900 gets poor reviews on Consumer Reports mostly because of its implementation of "smart" capabilities, but your feedback makes it sound like it does the important things well. In fact, Consumer Reports gives it a "very good" for its manual control, and my hope is I will have very little interaction with it once it is set up with the ISY.

[paulbates]

5 minutes ago, Bumbershoot said:

I need the humidity control of the T7900.  Provided there's NodeLink support on the Polisy when it's released, the local API and remote sensors will likely seal the deal for me.  Plus, it's less expensive than the Ecobee.  I've got to deal with the WAF, so that could influence things.

There's 2 levels... ioguy has a formula in Nodelink... you pick window construction and other factors and it auto adjusts humidity. I actually crossed my own line and wrote humidity control programs in the ISY (rather than letting the stat do it).. because my house had some unique challenges. However, I've used them for 3 seasons and they work as expected.

Agreed that the interface can be a bit overwhelming depending how you configure it. However, I installed the Venstar app on my wife's tablet and phone and she's fine with that, she can adjust the temp where she is. Venstar has alexa smarthome support too but I found it to be not worth it because the alexa functionality is so limited, at least it was at the time.

Paul

[paulbates]

16 minutes ago, endobiker said:

@paulbates- great feedback on the Venstar.

Admittedly, the Venstar T7900 gets poor reviews on Consumer Reports mostly because of its implementation of "smart" capabilities, but your feedback makes it sound like it does the important things well. In fact, Consumer Reports gives it a "very good" for its manual control, and my hope is I will have very little interaction with it once it is set up with the ISY.

That's an important thought.. its a thermostat... you figure out how to configure it and walk away.  For me, the venstar actually "gets in the deep end" HVAC wise. One example is multistage calls. I have 2 of the same furnance model on each side of the house but the sides of the house are very different. On one side, I set it to wait a while, or for it to be off 4 degrees (to catch up from switching from night program to daytime) because the runtimes are shorter, and have it fall back to stage 1 when it hits deadband. On the other side, the runtimes are longer, and i have it kick on second stage after 5 minutes and run it all the way to setpoint. There's a number of detail features in there that you can tweak that gets the comfort up and complaints down.

My wife uses the mobile app, doesn't touch the thermostat interface.

I'm sure there's a manual for ecobee. Here's the one for T7900. Its worth a reading both because they all have advantages and achilles heals.

Paul

[endobiker]

@paulbates- I looked at the feature list of the T7900 vs the T7850 and it looks like the only difference is the humidifier and dehumidification support. I don't have either of these- any reason to get the T7900 over the (cheaper) T7850?

[paulbates]

16 minutes ago, endobiker said:

@paulbates- I looked at the feature list of the T7900 vs the T7850 and it looks like the only difference is the humidifier and dehumidification support. I don't have either of these- any reason to get the T7900 over the (cheaper) T7850?

Nope, no reason to get the T7900 unless you'd add a whole house humidifier in the future, or you want to have a humidty sesnor to use in your programs. That's the only difference. My understanding this that the T7800 (as opposed to the T7850) is pretty stripped out including the local API... so definitely the T7850

[cvanhoose]

If you have the Zwave model, there are more local options. I have been using the 2gig CT100 for 3 years without any issues.