8 button keypad and isy944 scenes

[Bumbershoot]

Just now, thrang said:

I can appreciate this, thanks - but, for example, I still dont fully understand the difference between the Scene settings vs the individual device settings within the scene. Right now, I'm setting both identically, but not sure why.

Thanks

Here's a hypothetical:  When I get up to let the dog out, I press a scene controller (keypad button) that sets the living room lights to a low value (so I can go back to sleep later).  When I enter from the garage, I press a scene controller (SwitchLinc) that sets the lights to a brighter value.  Same scene members, different brightness values depending upon the controller.

[thrang]

Just now, Bumbershoot said:

Here's a hypothetical:  When I get up to let the dog out, I press a scene controller (keypad button) that sets the living room lights to a low value (so I can go back to sleep later).  When I enter from the garage, I press a scene controller (SwitchLinc) that sets the lights to a brighter value.  Same scene members, different brightness values depending upon the controller.

Yes, but those are just two different scenes, correct? I understand having multiple scenes with the same members and different values

Where I'm confused are the two different places with a single scene to set the same values... why, and when is one used instead of the other (Scene Settings responder values vs Scene members responder values -  hopefully my terminology is clear!)

Thanks

[thrang]

- Perhaps a nice change to the scene programming is the ability to select multiple devices, and the changes made are applied to selected devices (i.e, I may want the same level for a dozen different switches in a scene, and/or perhaps all to ramp the same number of seconds). Further, add a check box for Pass through to Device (s), which applies to the same settings to the individual device within the scene if so desired.

- Perhaps the ability to duplicate scenes for faster creation of varied light levels desired?

EDIT

- Right now, one must add multi-way switches all as controllers to a scene for interoperability, which is fine. But then one must add all the multiways individually to other scenes where you want custom lighting scenes. Perhaps a way to embed a scene within a scene for one master setting for all multi-ways, or some logic where adding one switch from a multiway group applies the settings to all without needing to repeat for each one?

Just some ideas...

Thanks

[Bumbershoot]

18 minutes ago, thrang said:

Yes, but those are just two different scenes, correct?

Nope, same scene.

I think using two different scenes with the same membership would consume twice as many links in the PLM, which would not an efficient use of a limited resource.  I could easily be wrong about that, however.

If you have any three-way scenes that are controlled by SwitchLinc Dimmers, inspect the scene, then change out the "On Level" and "Ramp Rate" for only one of the SwitchLinc contollers.  Then press the individual paddles.  The scene will behave differently depending on the paddle you pressed.

[lilyoyo1]

49 minutes ago, thrang said:

I can appreciate this, thanks - but, for example, I still dont fully understand the difference between the Scene settings vs the individual device settings within the scene. Right now, I'm setting both identically, but not sure why.

Thanks

That's where the forums come in.

Individual device settings is at the device level itself. It's when you hit a button and the devices respond. The scene is when the isy controls things such as when a program runs. 

For example (using my bedroom lamps) in my bedroom, we have 3kpls. 1 on the wall, 1 for me and 1 for my wife on her side of the bed. 

The bedside kpls turn on the lamps to our preferred state while the kpl on the wall turns them both on at a singular value (standard light). With that said, around bedtime; if someone is home, the isy will turn on the lights automatically to our bedtime settings. 1 scene with multiple configurations

[thrang]

My head is partly exploding but thanks for sticking with me here...

So I don't really need three separate scenes for my Kitchen scenario (Currently Kitchen Bright, Kitchen Eating, and Kitchen Off? Just have one scene, and add the thee controller buttons (B, C and D) to the scene, and set the desired values there?

If so, I then am not setting any values at the managed scene level? My confusion is I though they need to be set in both places, but at the managed scene level its only one set of values - at the controller level obviously I can have the unique values.

If I read this all correctly, Programs use the managed scene values. The buttons only care about the controller values set within the scene?

Thanks

[Bumbershoot]

2 minutes ago, thrang said:

So I don't really need three separate scenes for my Kitchen scenario (Currently Kitchen Bright, Kitchen Eating, and Kitchen Off? Just have one scene, and add the thee controller buttons (B, C and D) to the scene, and set the desired values there?

I think that's right, provided the membership of the three scenes are the same.

 

5 minutes ago, thrang said:

If I read this all correctly, Programs use the managed scene values. The buttons only care about the controller values set within the scene?

This is correct, but I believe programs are more powerful (though I'm not entirely sure about this as I don't use them in this way) -- they can additionally invoke a keypress on a scene controller, thus using the scene values that are associated with that controller.  ?

[lilyoyo1]

12 minutes ago, thrang said:

My head is partly exploding but thanks for sticking with me here...

So I don't really need three separate scenes for my Kitchen scenario (Currently Kitchen Bright, Kitchen Eating, and Kitchen Off? Just have one scene, and add the thee controller buttons (B, C and D) to the scene, and set the desired values there?

If so, I then am not setting any values at the managed scene level? My confusion is I though they need to be set in both places, but at the managed scene level its only one set of values - at the controller level obviously I can have the unique values.

If I read this all correctly, Programs use the managed scene values. The buttons only care about the controller values set within the scene?

Thanks

It can be done both ways. I separate mine as apps and voice assistants use the scene itself. By putting them all in 1, you are limiting what you can do whether it's now or in the future. If that's not a concern, 1 scene with different buttons as a controller is possible

[thrang]

Understood (he says with 79% confidence) - thanks again

Now on to more important issues, like finding LED's that don't flicker at 40%!

[lilyoyo1]

Philips warm glow is my go to. Cree is my second

[lilyoyo1]

7 minutes ago, thrang said:

Understood (he says with 79% confidence) - thanks again

Now on to more important issues, like finding LED's that don't flicker at 40%!

Just think each step out logically. 

"When I hit button B, I want button C to turn off and lights 1-3 to turn on while lights 4-6 turn off". That's your scene spelled out. "For button C. I want button B to turn off. Lights 1-3 to turn off and 4-6 to turn on".

Thinking it through that way says and each on of those things to your scene with the corresponding values

[thrang]

Just now, lilyoyo1 said:

Philips warm glow is my go to. Cree is my second

My challenge is I have WAC track system that has low voltage LED heads, and they are not liking the Insteon dimmer as much as the Lutron dimmer I had prior.

I have some Luxrite MR16 LED 2700k in hanging fixture and they seem to work well - though not sure if its the difference in the lamp or fixture. 

Do Insteon dimmers have issues with controlling low voltage loads? If so, I have to forgo control or get line voltage heads instead...

[thrang]

Just now, lilyoyo1 said:

Just think each step out logically. 

"When I got button B, I want button C to turn off and lights 1-3 to turn on while lights 4-6 turn off". That's your scene spelled out. "For button C. I want button B to turn off. Lights 1-3 to turn off and 4-6 to turn on".

Thinking it through that way says and each on of those things to your scene with the corresponding values

Yes, I understand the logic I want - its marrying it to the GUI of admin console that is a little tricky at the start,

Thanks

[lilyoyo1]

Just now, thrang said:

My challenge is I have WAC track system that has low voltage LED heads, and they are not liking the Insteon dimmer as much as the Lutron dimmer I had prior.

I have some Luxrite MR16 LED 2700k in hanging fixture and they seem to work well - though not sure if its the difference in the lamp or fixture. 

Do Insteon dimmers have issues with controlling low voltage loads? If so, I have to forgo control or get line voltage heads instead...

Depends on the fixture and what it requires. It could be elv or mlv which would make insteon incompatible. If it can be controlled via a triac then it may work though I recommend testing first

[thrang]

Just now, lilyoyo1 said:

Depends on the fixture and what it requires. It could be elv or mlv which would make insteon incompatible. If it can be controlled via a triac then it may work though I recommend testing first

There are some inexpensive line voltage heads on amazon that work with my track and are well reviewed, maybe I'll just try those

[Bumbershoot]

14 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Philips warm glow is my go to.

Mine too.  I use these in my track lights: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VKE8X6I/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They work beautifully.

[thrang]

Just now, Bumbershoot said:

Mine too.  I use these in my track lights: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VKE8X6I/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They work beautifully.

Are your heads low voltage or line voltage?

[Bumbershoot]

2 minutes ago, thrang said:

Are your heads low voltage or line voltage?

I thought that all MR16 applications are low voltage, but I really don't know.  My assumption is/was that there's a transformer in the enclosure that connects the lamp to the track.

[oberkc]

2 hours ago, Bumbershoot said:

I thought that all MR16 applications are low voltage, but I really don't know.  My assumption is/was that there's a transformer in the enclosure that connects the lamp to the track.

I also think that this is a good assumption.

 

[Bumbershoot]

1 hour ago, oberkc said:

I also think that this is a good assumption.

Thanks.  I'm nobody's idea of an electrician, but I can generally insert a light bulb. ?

[thrang]

Things going well thanks to the help here - one small niggling thing: on the 8 button keypad, can I set the MAIN key light off even though the load is on from scene? For example, my KITCHEN MED. light scene controls the levels for four light circuits - one load is the MAIN button. To me, it doesn't look right that the button for MAIN is illuminated at the same time keypad D (KITCHEN MED scene) is active and illuminated.

It's probably fairly simple...

I looked into the COMMAND option for the button (both at the scene level and the controller level), but Backlight already indicates 0/0

Thanks