ISY Portal, ISY Dashboard, Home Automation Dashboard, my.isy.io, udajax

[carealtor]

I'm sorry, but I find this all very confusing.

The ISY Launcher allows me to log into "Dashboard", which also seems to be called "ISY Dashboard".

The ISY Portal login allow me to log into "Go to my ISY", which takes me to "Home Automation Dashboard" or "My Lighting" udajax, depending on a setting.

In the  ISY Portal there is a dropdown that lets me select "ISY Web Access"

And then there are Agave and various (as I understand it) versions of Mobilinc.  

I find this all very confusing.  So I almost never need to do anything when I'm away from home, but a few times a year I might.  Like to turn on a light for the dog or something like that.  I don't need anything fancy like Agave or Mobilinc.  Great products I'm sure, but way overkill for my needs.

The Home Automation Dashboard (HAD) option that is available through the ISY Portal seems to fit the bill, but I just read the other day in the forum that it is no longer maintained.

Not sure why HAD is still available on the ISY Portal if it is dead, but that's irrelevant I guess.

The other problem I have with HAD is that I seem to have to log in eeeevery-siiiiingle-tiiiiime from my android phone.  And what is even worse, there seems to be a very short time limit to log in and I can never type the username (email) and password fast enough before it blanks it all out.

Can anybody clarify any of this for me?  Am I doing something wrong?  I just want a button on my phone that opens an app that lets me turn a device on or off once in awhile.

[lilyoyo1]

An app like mobilinc would do that for you. While it may seem like Overkill, is it really when it accomplishes what you want when you want without a headache.

The fact that those apps are supported means it always work out you can get help for it. Sure you can use the favor but if it's not being supported what good does it do you when it may not work when you need it to. You're paying for convenience.

One other thing you can look at since you have the portal is adding your devices to Alexa or Google home. You can control them through those as well. I don't trust those as much as I would something that's polling my Sistem though for use when I'm not around

[EddieRock]

Yah, I was a bit disappointed that HAD was dead. I had it running for years with no issues. I had forgotten that I was running it on an old linux VM and when I decided to decom it, HAD went with it. Since the documentation isn't really strait forward on how to set it up on a stand-alone box, I decided to go with Agave. It's fine and works pretty well, there is a cost with ISY to be mobile. Either in $$ or by frequent authentication. In my case, I had HAD on my network and there wasn't any auth. That was fine for me because my network's as secure as I can get it (lets not go there please). 

Anyway, I miss HAD. @carealtor

I read that Home Assistant can connect to the ISY. Maybe I can run my ISY with HA's app. I'd hate to run two though. I like the ISY. It's ROCK SOLID.

EddieRock

@bmercier

 

[simplextech]

1 minute ago, EddieRock said:

I read that Home Assistant can connect to the ISY. Maybe I can run my ISY with HA's app. I'd hate to run two though. I like the ISY. It's ROCK SOLID.

I've been giving this a lot of thought recently.....

I looked into Home Assistant again and their native and hacs component for ISY.  Neither are even loading or working if Nodeservers are present so this is a non starter. 

I looked into OpenHAB and their binding.  It's deprecated and not maintained.  Probably wouldn't work correctly so I didn't continue looking.  If someone else runs OpenHAB with the ISY binding please let me know how well it works and particularly with Nodeservers.

Currently none of the mobile apps (eKeyPadPro, Agave, Mobilinc X) support nodeservers.  I've heard from all of them they are "looking into it".  At what time frame is unknown and which developers they are working with to test/validate nodeservers?

I think HAD or a variation of it is still viable and could be continued.  However at what level of interest from people and at what cost? (development time). 

[bmercier]

For the purpose of clarification, HAD is still available, both on ISY Portal, in the firmware, and as customization interface, and there is no plan to retire it.

However, no efforts are planned to enhance it either.

Benoit

[paulbates]

9 hours ago, bmercier said:

For the purpose of clarification, HAD is still available, both on ISY Portal, in the firmware, and as customization interface, and there is no plan to retire it.

However, no efforts are planned to enhance it either.

Benoit

I still use it for summary reports, and the very limited remote controlling I do.  Its been great that HAD pages can be loaded remotely through the portal, so I don't have to open any router ports. Given that functionality I'm not looking for it to be enhanced; status quo is great

Paul

Edited December 22, 2019 by paulbates

[carealtor]

Thanks all.

I'm still wondering if I'm doing something wrong in logging into ISY Portal and/or HAD on my Android phone.  I have to supply username and password every single time I go to my.isy.io in the Chrome browser.  And as I mentioned, the login screen doesn't give me enough time.  It blanks out what I've already typed after a few seconds.  I have to be extremely quick to type an email in password in the time allowed.  

[paulbates]

 

1 hour ago, carealtor said:

Thanks all.

I'm still wondering if I'm doing something wrong in logging into ISY Portal and/or HAD on my Android phone.  I have to supply username and password every single time I go to my.isy.io in the Chrome browser.  And as I mentioned, the login screen doesn't give me enough time.  It blanks out what I've already typed after a few seconds.  I have to be extremely quick to type an email in password in the time allowed.  

How are you trying to access HAD?  Use this template URL: https://my.isy.io/isy/<your key>/USER/WEB/watsonia.htm

That's a custom page but you can also use index.htm, the default. Recently migrated from ios to a Samsung S10+, it works fine.

Paul

 

Edited December 22, 2019 by paulbates

[EddieRock]

The integration for node servers is great. But... having the third party apps having to write special code seems frustrating to me and slow. 

If.... I setup Home Assistant to run the devices that are not supported out of the box with ISY, and I can connect with ISY with HA, then couldn't I use HA for my front end and control all my ISY native devices with it? I really don't want to support two home automation systems now.

Don't get me wrong! I love the ISY. Hardware is rock solid. Support and community is awesome. But, things are moving fast and there is a LOT of new hardware and technology coming out fast. Seems like HA has a working bridge to the ISY now.

I've been testing Agave for a week or two now. Works great but I can't see my node servers or control them. If I use HA and hook up my NuHeat into HA, then maybe there is more options for us. 

From the outside looking in, it sounds good but as we know... It may not be as good as it sounds until you try it and find the short comings. And, I really don't want a device that runs on a PI with a OS on a SD card. Seems like it could be a recipe for disaster. the ISY is solid so far..

Ed 

[EddieRock]

On 12/21/2019 at 9:44 PM, bmercier said:

For the purpose of clarification, HAD is still available, both on ISY Portal, in the firmware, and as customization interface, and there is no plan to retire it.

However, no efforts are planned to enhance it either.

Benoit

Noted. Thanks!!

Is there a single pane of glass that I can view my ISY, cloud node servers and local node servers today?

[carealtor]

On 12/22/2019 at 9:25 AM, paulbates said:

 

How are you trying to access HAD?  Use this template URL: https://my.isy.io/isy/<your key>/USER/WEB/watsonia.htm

That's a custom page but you can also use index.htm, the default. Recently migrated from ios to a Samsung S10+, it works fine.

Paul

 

I'm just going to my.isy.io using Chrome on my Android phone.  I've read the wiki and I don't see anything about a "your key" or how to do this in general.  I know it's second nature to many how all of this works, but until you know, you don't know, and I'm still at the don't know stage.  Where is this documented?

[paulbates]

7 hours ago, carealtor said:

I'm just going to my.isy.io using Chrome on my Android phone.  I've read the wiki and I don't see anything about a "your key" or how to do this in general.  I know it's second nature to many how all of this works, but until you know, you don't know, and I'm still at the don't know stage.  Where is this documented?

I'm not sure its documented anywhere. I figured it out by taking the URL provided in the ISY Portal under Select Tool / ISY information, and then adding the path in the ISY. To save frustration typing it into your phone with a touch keyboard, you can copy that out, paste it in an email, reformat to match my example above, and then send it to your self. Open the email on your phone and click it and book mark it.

Paul 

[tibbar]

Recently I've been playing with Home Assistant .

Its been working great for me ( and I do have a nodesever running).

I love the way I can customise the front end of HA and response time is very fast.

I use openVPN to access my home network when on the road and Home assistant works great with it.

I also use Agave (full access) it works pretty well either with ISY Portal or "local" when using openVPN.

So far only downside to HA is that it does not recognise insteon thermostats that I use in garage that is 100ft away from house.

I wish ISY would use front end interface like Home Assistant. Hate using "ISY Web Access", on the "Scenes" tab you can not tell if they are on or off and HAD doesn't even display scenes.

I love the ISY but it user interface looks like is stuck in the 80's.

[tibbar]

On 12/24/2019 at 10:34 PM, EddieRock said:

And, I really don't want a device that runs on a PI with a OS on a SD card. Seems like it could be a recipe for disaster. the ISY is solid so far..

 

Isn't that what basically ISY is- customised PI ?

[simplextech]

1 hour ago, tibbar said:

I love the ISY but it user interface looks like is stuck in the 80's.

The ISY doesn't have a "user interface".  There's an "admin console" for administration but otherwise it's a automation system.  There has been a market for mobile access and Mobilinc, Agave, ekPro have filled that niche and I'm sure there will be others.  When a large enough demand for a web UI emerges I'm sure someone will fill that niche as well.  Until there's either a personal drive or monetary drive for development or enhancement I don't think it will happen.  I've said it before that I'm happy I don't see UDI wasting resources on making a UI pretty (I want string support and dynamic updating rather than restarting and having to re-upload/process profiles).  Otherwise I don't care as long as it's reliable and functional over pretty.

[tibbar]

4 minutes ago, simplextech said:

The ISY doesn't have a "user interface".  There's an "admin console" for administration but otherwise it's a automation system.  There has been a market for mobile access and Mobilinc, Agave, ekPro have filled that niche and I'm sure there will be others.  When a large enough demand for a web UI emerges I'm sure someone will fill that niche as well.  Until there's either a personal drive or monetary drive for development or enhancement I don't think it will happen.  I've said it before that I'm happy I don't see UDI wasting resources on making a UI pretty (I want string support and dynamic updating rather than restarting and having to re-upload/process profiles).  Otherwise I don't care as long as it's reliable and functional over pretty.

With good user interface I would take this :"  (I want string support and dynamic updating rather than restarting and having to re-upload/process profiles)" for given.

Unless I behave like a robot or the house can read my mind or you have house full of motion, heat, pressure etc sensors that perfectly work together I find always use for manually turning things On and Off and here Home Assistant is way better (just my opinion) then ISY (I know, I know ISY is a hardware - but hardware is useless without software).

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to bash ISY, been using it for years (Nov.2013) With a mix of Insteon, Zwave, Ecobee and "user error" thinks don't always work as programmed therefore my need for manual input.

[simplextech]

3 minutes ago, tibbar said:

With good user interface I would take this :"  (I want string support and dynamic updating rather than restarting and having to re-upload/process profiles)" for given.

Unless I behave like a robot or the house can read my mind or you have house full of motion, heat, pressure etc sensors that perfectly work together I find always use for manually turning things On and Off and here Home Assistant is way better (just my opinion) then ISY (I know, I know ISY is a hardware - but hardware is useless without software).

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to bash ISY, been using it for years (Nov.2013) With a mix of Insteon, Zwave, Ecobee and "user error" thinks don't always work as programmed therefore my need for manual input.

I don't think you are or are trying to bash anything. 

Having strings support isn't a UI function actually it's lower level in the device status and variable.  Presenting that is the UI and thus presenting it without having to restart the UI would be very nice.  A "good" UI is all in the beholder as what some call ugly I call utilitarian and I like that it "just works" versus having to constantly baby sit it.

As for HASS.  Yes the Lovelace UI is very nice and if someone develops something even half as good that works with ISY that would be great and I would use it.  Maybe I'll develop it... dunno I'm not a front end developer so that's challenging... but I have been thinking of it.  But who's going to pay for it? 

Point is though as nice and pretty as the HASS UI is frankly they have spent the last year putting so much effort into making things "easy" and configurable through the UI that the real stability of HASS has suffered and for myself I can't have that.  I can't have a pretty UI but unstable system because of the UI.  I've been using HASS for several years and watched it grow and been through the upgrade pains and non-functioning system and starting from scratch... all because of UI changes for the most part.  Given some were underlying core changes that were necessary and those I understand but when a system is made non functional because of the UI?  No... not acceptable.

I also was a user and developer for another big name and I moved on from that.  Because of them changing the core to appeal to users wanting a "new UI"... and this new UI appeals to a fraction of existing users and is meant to attract new fresh users (read fresh fast money) but changing the core to match the UI is backwards and has and will lead to problems and I'm just glad it's not my problem.

It probably sounds like I'm arguing and then agreeing.  Kinda back and forth huh?  I am.  I think a UI would be a nice enhancement but I don't want it bad enough to sacrifice the reliability of the system which means I don't want UDI putting resources towards something which would take away resources from other areas.  Now if UDI was made of money and had resources to spare then great... would love it!  I doubt they do though.

Today if I'm away from home and I need something simple to turn on/off or check something there's already Mobilinc, Agave, eKeyPad Pro or the basic web interface.  If the use case is "basic" as you suggested... aren't your requirements already met?

 

[tibbar]

40 minutes ago, simplextech said:

... aren't your requirements already met?

 

Yes they pretty much are.

All my devices are controlled (mastered) by ISY - almost all.

I use ISY for almost all my automation and Home Assistant only for "simple" web user interface.

I have a Unraid server running 24-7 with Home Assistant, NodeRed, MQTT, Plex and some other apps running as dockers and couple VM's and that part works real well.

Asus router runs openVPN server.

I have a PI running Polyglot v.2 but there are some things I can't get it to work (like HarmonyHub node - it works fine on HA).

So yes my requirements are met.

If only everything worked 100%, some days it feels like I'm still  running X10 , but that's probably for another topic to trouble shoot my system.

Sorry I'm just babbling and it has nothing to do with Op's thread.

I just wanted to say that op can have ISY and Home Assistant as front end coexisting no problem.

P.S Sorry for bad grammar. English is my second language.

Edited December 26, 2019 by tibbar
added P.S

[lilyoyo1]

I've never understood the need for an interface. If things are programmed properly the system runs itself. Why spend all this time and money only to sit there and manage stuff more than I would if it weren't automated.

I get it if a person is out travelling. However even then I don't want to be checking an app. Let me know something is up vs me having to log into something to find out. To each their own

I think that's partly UDI's feeling on the matter. They've created a controller that doesn't need to be managed so why build an interface for monitoring. They understand there are people (for various reasons) that want to manage stuff so they do have ways of doing it. They just aren't willing to put the time and effort into making it happen. 

[carealtor]

10 hours ago, tibbar said:

Sorry I'm just babbling and it has nothing to do with Op's thread.

 

I don't mind at all!  I find the discussion very interesting.

10 hours ago, tibbar said:

I just wanted to say that op can have ISY and Home Assistant as front end coexisting no problem.

 

I actually do use HA, mostly just to play around with it.  I have it running on a virtual machine on a spare Windows 10 computer.  I like it for it's quick access to everything when I'm using my laptop.  I really just use it as an interface to the ISY and other systems. I don't run any actual automations on HA.  As to using HA on my phone for access when away from home, it's my understanding it requires port forwarding and DuckDNS and who knows what else to configure.  I'm just not in enough need to go that route if I can get what I need from ISY portal already.

[simplextech]

10 hours ago, tibbar said:

I just wanted to say that op can have ISY and Home Assistant as front end coexisting no problem.

You can... but... the current HASS components do not work correctly when you have Nodeservers in your ISY.  The HASS ISY component (HASS native and HACS) error on startup and will not load.  Which means none of the ISY devices are visible/usable which makes the interface non-functional, non-usable. 

[EddieRock]

12 hours ago, simplextech said:

The ISY doesn't have a "user interface".  There's an "admin console" for administration but otherwise it's a automation system. 

Yup. It's an admin interface. I do agree. As I said, I love the ISY but I do feel that tying other automated "things" together would be nice. Maybe I missed it but if I could have a single pane to know the state of some of my devices and other systems at a glance I feel it could be polished. I have a video surveillance system, some door locks, people moving around the house. Would like to know what the water temp of the lake or pool is at a glance. The wind... If a interface was available to modify and view other devices, the state of the door locks and some rooms and temps around the house. On a panel or tablet, I'd be happy. Now, I have to switch from my door locks app to my interface (notice I didn't use Admin) to view some status of my house and my door lock app to see if my doors are locked. The weather at a glance... I feel having all these as the source of truth and to have to open all these different apps is  not ideal. 

Also, some times things don't fire properly on the ISY (and most other automation software/hardware). Maybe the microwave was on when the ISY set some lights or a solar flare occurred. Some lights may be off when they should be on. Seeing the state of the union in a simple pane would make me happy. That is my quest right now. 

Any ONVIF camera integration yet? I see that FosCam is available. But, if my door bell rings, I'd like to see who is at the door by looking at an app/panel/UI in my kitchen/living room instead of bouncing around in different apps.

...wishing I became a developer years back.

EddieRock

[dbuss]

9 minutes ago, EddieRock said:

Yup. It's an admin interface. I do agree. As I said, I love the ISY but I do feel that tying other automated "things" together would be nice. Maybe I missed it but if I could have a single pane to know the state of some of my devices and other systems at a glance I feel it could be polished. I have a video surveillance system, some door locks, people moving around the house. Would like to know what the water temp of the lake or pool is at a glance. The wind... If a interface was available to modify and view other devices, the state of the door locks and some rooms and temps around the house. On a panel or tablet, I'd be happy. Now, I have to switch from my door locks app to my interface (notice I didn't use Admin) to view some status of my house and my door lock app to see if my doors are locked. The weather at a glance... I feel having all these as the source of truth and to have to open all these different apps is  not ideal. 

Also, some times things don't fire properly on the ISY (and most other automation software/hardware). Maybe the microwave was on when the ISY set some lights or a solar flare occurred. Some lights may be off when they should be on. Seeing the state of the union in a simple pane would make me happy. That is my quest right now. 

Any ONVIF camera integration yet? I see that FosCam is available. But, if my door bell rings, I'd like to see who is at the door by looking at an app/panel/UI in my kitchen/living room instead of bouncing around in different apps.

...wishing I became a developer years back.

EddieRock

I have found that receiving notifications via email or text when something is happening when it shouldn't be or something is not happening when it should be, is much more reliable than me checking the status of devices every time I think i should. if a notification is received and I'm traveling, I can then check the status and see what's happening or not happening. Polyglot gave me the ability to interface many other protocols not natively supported by ISY. 

[simplextech]

@EddieRocka single pane view would be nice I agree.  Home Assistant is a way of doing this but as currently (verified again this morning) it doesn't load and work with NodeServers which is not good.  The alternative would be then to move nodeserver functions out of the ISY and use HASS components to achieve the single pane view which is doable but now there are two systems to maintain and configure and dual automations to manage or to try and sync state from HASS to ISY for the ISY to manage/run the programs. 

A perfect setup would be a fully integrated web interface for the ISY which could integrate cameras and other devices into a single pane view.  Why has this not happened yet?  Nodeservers are still relatively "new".  As they are new, the UI projects haven't caught up to speed yet with Nodeserver paradigm presentation, functionality is still in development which makes it hard for 3rd parties to support.  There's many systems out there that can provide a "overall" view of a system and ISY devices... just not so well with Nodeservers... yet.

If you don't mind running a multi-controller setup and maintaining multiple environments and the troubleshooting involved of figuring out which system is the issue then there's several options.  Home Assistant, HomeSeer, Allonis MyServer, Charmed Quark (CQC).

When will a nice integrated UI with nodeservers be available?  My guess is when a developer with a personal need or interest decides to write it.  Or there's enough demand to make into a product that can actually make a profit over the long term.

Historically the ISY has been a Insteon, X10, Z-Wave device controller.  These are devices, physical, static.  Introduction of Polyglot expands the horizon to new devices, new concepts and requires a new presentation capability.

[carealtor]

2 hours ago, simplextech said:

You can... but... the current HASS components do not work correctly when you have Nodeservers in your ISY.  The HASS ISY component (HASS native and HACS) error on startup and will not load.  Which means none of the ISY devices are visible/usable which makes the interface non-functional, non-usable. 

Hmm.  I'm not sure what to make of this.  I DO have several nodeservers on my ISY, but I have no issues with running HA.