New Home Crawl

[Crzy49er]

We just bought a new home where the previous owner installed a lot of insteon devices (switches, plugs, extenders and a hub). I've come to the conclusion that the hub sucks and I bought an ISY + the insteon serial link.

I had the ISY crawl the network to find all the devices, but there were a few that came back RED and couldn't load. The problem is, I don't know what the are and where they are.

The other issues is, the 6 and 8 button keypads are programmed to control 3-5 other lights, but I can't or don't know how to read the connections on ISY.

I would hate to delete all the programming and start over. Can someone assist so I can avoid that?

[larryllix]

I dont know what a crawl is but I woudl never use it.

 

Now you don't know what is connected andvrecognised properly and what is not.

You will also have the factory reset every device and relink it to ISY to avoid lots of confusion down the road.

 

Start again by factory resetting every device and linking it properly, then test it. Sorry.

 

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[paulbates]

Welcome to the udi forums! Highly recommend Larry's suggestion 

Delete everything in the isy or factory reset the isy. Organize your installation by room and function; like a 3 way switch and light.  Factory reset those,  add to the isy and build scenes with the linking menu... do not link manually at the switches. 

Once you get that working,  move on to the next function,  repeat until the room is done.  Then move on to the next room.  

Don't rush and try to do it big bang.. give yourself time to k learn the isy's way

Paul

[Crzy49er]

The problem is, there are switches that are hidden...I was hoping the system would find those and add them as well.

 

The consensus seems to be resetting the system. blah....I was hoping to avoid this.

[TrojanHorse]

The problem is, there are switches that are hidden...I was hoping the system would find those and add them as well.
 
The consensus seems to be resetting the system. blah....I was hoping to avoid this.

How do you know there are hidden switches?


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[paulbates]

You can try installing those with the option to enter the insteon id: xx:xx:xx and have it wipe out the links

[Crzy49er]

10 minutes ago, TrojanHorse said:

 

How do you know there are hidden switches?


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There are some lights that are controlled by a 8 button switch scene but I'm not sure where the actual main switch is for those lights.

[TrojanHorse]

1 minute ago, Crzy49er said:

There are some lights that are controlled by a 8 button switch scene but I'm not sure where the actual main switch is for those lights.

Gotcha.  So you see the lights respond to those buttons but not sure what's actually controlling the load.  Could be a micro module or inlinelinc or something else in the fixture or in a box somewhere...

I've never done the crawl network method.  Are you referring to linking devices into the ISY and then selecting either the 2nd option "Add devices found in links and remove existing links" or the 3rd option "Add Devices Found in Links and keep existing links"

While I agree that factory resetting each device is the way to go, I wonder if  before doing that you could add devices using the 2nd or 3rd option mentioned above as a way to see what's on your network and maybe give you clues on what other devices you're looking for?  Then factory reset everything and start from scratch?  

My guess is that most people here (myself included) haven't used this method as the best way is to factory reset and then do the 1st option when linking - "Remove Existing Links".  

So while you ultimately want to factory reset everything, does anyone here know if the 2nd or 3rd option would create a list of devices so that the OP would know what to look for?  Would it tell him for example how many linked micro modules might exist?

 

[lilyoyo1]

37 minutes ago, Crzy49er said:

There are some lights that are controlled by a 8 button switch scene but I'm not sure where the actual main switch is for those lights.

I would be more methodical in my approach with the whole thing. It will let you know whether you have the patience for the Isy's learning curve and will ensure a rock solid system long term

I would start by emailing insteon to get a list of all your devices that are in the hub. I would then go through and verify the location of each one until you find them all. 

Once you've found everything, figure out what you want to keep and change. Since you're swapping over, now is the time to make the system match you vs someone else. Take note of things you want to keep and what you want to change. Once you have a plan then you can start.

Before anything, factory reset  your isy. No point in trying to clean up the mess you have now. Once done, start small with easy stuff such as multi way circuits (3 and 4 way switches) ie: hallway lights. Factory reset them, add them to the Isy and then re-link  them. 

Once the multi-way switches are done, you can start going to individual rooms. You'll follow the same process. As you remove devices from your hub, factory reset them, add them to the isy, name them, and link them.

[lilyoyo1]

30 minutes ago, TrojanHorse said:

Gotcha.  So you see the lights respond to those buttons but not sure what's actually controlling the load.  Could be a micro module or inlinelinc or something else in the fixture or in a box somewhere...

I've never done the crawl network method.  Are you referring to linking devices into the ISY and then selecting either the 2nd option "Add devices found in links and remove existing links" or the 3rd option "Add Devices Found in Links and keep existing links"

While I agree that factory resetting each device is the way to go, I wonder if  before doing that you could add devices using the 2nd or 3rd option mentioned above as a way to see what's on your network and maybe give you clues on what other devices you're looking for?  Then factory reset everything and start from scratch?  

My guess is that most people here (myself included) haven't used this method as the best way is to factory reset and then do the 1st option when linking - "Remove Existing Links".  

So while you ultimately want to factory reset everything, does anyone here know if the 2nd or 3rd option would create a list of devices so that the OP would know what to look for?  Would it tell him for example how many linked micro modules might exist?

 

It will but that method will also bring in devices that may have been replaced but not wiped from the switches. He could end up on a wild goose chase

[paulbates]

The keypad can control a circuit directly.  Carefully remove the keypad and see if anything is connected to its red wire... if yes,  then the keypad is it. 

[TomL]

I agree, factory resetting and building your own system is best.  Primarily because, I tried the other way.  When I got the ISY a year ago I had been using a hub prior, so being the infinitely patient person I am, I clicked the start linking option, which I think is what the OP is calling a Crawl.  It found most devices I was using, but things didn't work correctly and I ended up removing factory resetting and reinstalling all the devices.  That being said what @TrojanHorse asked this would probably do, it would most likely give you a device tree of most if not all devices, battery powered probably not.  Not being the original owner, location of each device would be seek and find by activating each individually to see what runs on and off.  If what @lilyoyo1 is possible by getting a list of what was in hub from insteon, that may be the best option.

[Crzy49er]

Thank you all for your help!  I need a 6 -12 pack and about 2 hrs.... I think I can knock this out.

 

Reset and associate with the ISY. Start fresh.

[TrojanHorse]

I would start by emailing insteon to get a list of all your devices that are in the hub. I would then go through and verify the location of each one until you find them all. 

Thats a good idea. Didn’t know that was an option. Curious if you know if any devices that were directly linked to each other using the method described in the typical manuals - (i.e. not using a hub or ISY ) - would the hub (and Insteon email support) be aware?


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[Crzy49er]

9 minutes ago, TrojanHorse said:

 

Thats a good idea. Didn’t know that was an option. Curious if you know if any devices that were directly linked to each other using the method described in the typical manuals - (i.e. not using a hub or ISY ) - would the hub (and Insteon email support) be aware?


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I logged into the hub, most devices are on there, but there are some that are missing. It's a starting point for sure.

3 hours ago, larryllix said:

The 12 pack or the programming?

depends on the progress I make. ?

[TrojanHorse]

Curious how does the list of devices on the hub compare to what you see in the ISY after the “crawl”?


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[Crzy49er]

3 minutes ago, TrojanHorse said:

Curious how does the list of devices on the hub compare to what you see in the ISY after the “crawl”?


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I'll update you once I run the ISY capture.

[TrojanHorse]

I'll update you once I run the ISY capture.

Is the *capture* different than the crawl (which sounded like you did already)? I wonder if the missing devices there are the same as the ones that are probably missing in the ISY as denotes by the red exclamation marks?

 

 

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[Crzy49er]

1 minute ago, TrojanHorse said:

Is the attire different than the crawl (which sounded like you did already)? I wonder if the missing devices there are the same as the ones that are probably missing in the ISY as denotes by the red exclamation marks?


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I'm going to run it again, because the items that it kicked out saying "failed to communicate" wasn't logged anywhere. I'm going to clear the ISY and run it again. It takes like 1-2 hrs to run.

[Crzy49er]

So as I'm running the "crawl" with option 3, (read links and keep links intact), I'm getting there errors:

Mon 01/06/2020 08:00:31 PM : [7 5E 77 1   ] Failed to add device, reason 3
Mon 01/06/2020 08:00:54 PM : [7 F7 1B 1   ] Cannot determine device type
Mon 01/06/2020 08:00:54 PM : [7 F7 1B 1   ] Failed to add device, reason 2
Mon 01/06/2020 08:01:16 PM : [6 F4 C7 1   ] Failed to add device, reason 3
Mon 01/06/2020 08:01:38 PM : [31 9F AF 1  ] Failed to add device, reason 3
Mon 01/06/2020 08:02:00 PM : [27 BE EB 1  ] Failed to add device, reason 3
Mon 01/06/2020 08:02:02 PM : [3D 7B FB 1  ] Using Database Link Table offset 0x0FF8 (reported 0x0FF8)
Mon 01/06/2020 08:02:02 PM : [3D 7B FB 1  ] Reading all links
Mon 01/06/2020 08:02:47 PM : [44 81 41 1  ] Added to list of devices to link to ISY
 

[TrojanHorse]

So as I'm running the "crawl" with option 3, (read links and keep links intact), I'm getting there errors:

Mon 01/06/2020 08:00:31 PM : [7 5E 77 1   ] Failed to add device, reason 3
Mon 01/06/2020 08:00:54 PM : [7 F7 1B 1   ] Cannot determine device type
Mon 01/06/2020 08:00:54 PM : [7 F7 1B 1   ] Failed to add device, reason 2
Mon 01/06/2020 08:01:16 PM : [6 F4 C7 1   ] Failed to add device, reason 3
Mon 01/06/2020 08:01:38 PM : [31 9F AF 1  ] Failed to add device, reason 3
Mon 01/06/2020 08:02:00 PM : [27 BE EB 1  ] Failed to add device, reason 3
Mon 01/06/2020 08:02:02 PM : [3D 7B FB 1  ] Using Database Link Table offset 0x0FF8 (reported 0x0FF8)
Mon 01/06/2020 08:02:02 PM : [3D 7B FB 1  ] Reading all links
Mon 01/06/2020 08:02:47 PM : [44 81 41 1  ] Added to list of devices to link to ISY
 

I don’t know what the errors mean exactly. Maybe you can search for them or someone else can help. There’s a list of some errors somewhere on UDI website ...
Do the addresses in the [] brackets align with missing hub devices?


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[lilyoyo1]

9 hours ago, TrojanHorse said:

 

Thats a good idea. Didn’t know that was an option. Curious if you know if any devices that were directly linked to each other using the method described in the typical manuals - (i.e. not using a hub or ISY ) - would the hub (and Insteon email support) be aware?


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It would not show those. However, of it's not part of the hub, most likely it's not embedded or in use. Either way, as he compares and confirms, he can pick up the few extra stragglers

[Crzy49er]

5 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

It would not show those. However, of it's not part of the hub, most likely it's not embedded or in use. Either way, as he compares and confirms, he can pick up the few extra stragglers

I'm waiting for the export from Insteon, but I did find a lot more devices.

 

[Crzy49er]

So, I got the list from Insteon and scanned my devices. I found things in the Insteon Hub that didn't exist and devices that did that weren't connected to the hub.

 

oddly, both had the same number, just different devices.