Fanlinc devices error "Cannot Determine Insteon Egine"

[kmyagel]

I am installing insteon switches and fanlincs in my home.  I have an isy994i and a new PLM.  My electrician installed switches and 5 fanlinc devices.  I was able to add everything to my isy but 2 of the fanlincs just give me an error "Cannot Determine Insteon Engine".  I took pictures of the address on each Fanlinc so I know that I am typing the address in correctly.  What can cause this error when trying to add a device to the isy?  How do I fix this?

[DennisC]

If you are sure you are using the correct address, then it might be a communications issue. Some device in your home causing noise and interfering with Insteon communications.

[kmyagel]

Thanks DennisC .... The electrician installed 5 fanlincs, 2 8 button KPL, 5 6 Button KPL and 5 KPL but I'm only having issues with 2 of the fanlincs.  So, how do I troubleshoot to figure out what is interfering with only 2 of them?  Is it possible that I got 2 bad fanlincs?  How would I be able to tell the fanlinc is bad as opposed to something interfering with insteon communications?

[firstone]

If you're using address to add them, again, make sure it's correct. You're not typing 8 instead of B. Of D instead of 0. Otherwise, wire it next to a devices that's already communicating temporarily. This way you know it's not a communication issue. I don't know much about fanlincs but if they're physically inside metal boxes that might stop wireless signal and it's possible you don't have enough devices to successfully send signal over the wire. Do you an insteon device that's controlling same light as fanlinc?

[kmyagel]

I took pictures of the address with my phone and zoomed in so that I could make sure the address was correct.  I had typed in a few of them incorrectly when I was setting things up and that is easy to do because they are so difficult to read.  The fanlincs are exposed because the electrician left the covers off so that I could try to figure out why it wasn't connecting to the ISY.  I was able to add the KPL that is in the same room as the fanlinc so there is a working KPL in the same room as the fanlinc. 

All the devices that I had installed are dual-band and they all over the house and the garage.  The fanlinc is getting power and red/green lights are blinking. 

Is there anything specific that I should look for if what's causing the issue is interference ... would it help to unplug things like power strips, computers and other electronics.  It's frustrating that the ISY gives the same error when you type in an incorrect address and also when something else is wrong.  I tried opening the event viewer but when I try to add the fanlinc, it just shows the following (which basically looks like it's not communicating at all with the fanlinc).  

Mon 01/27/2020 06:59:56 PM : [47 6b 44    ] Added to list of devices to link to ISY

Mon 01/27/2020 06:59:56 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 47 6B 44 0F 0D 00

Mon 01/27/2020 06:59:56 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 47.6B.44 0F 0D 00 06                 (00)

Mon 01/27/2020 07:00:04 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 47 6B 44 0F 0D 00

Mon 01/27/2020 07:00:05 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 47.6B.44 0F 0D 00 06                 (00)

Mon 01/27/2020 07:00:14 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 47 6B 44 0F 0D 00

Mon 01/27/2020 07:00:14 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 47.6B.44 0F 0D 00 06                 (00)

Mon 01/27/2020 07:00:17 PM : [47 6B 44 0  ] Failed to add device, reason 3

[simplextech]

Have you done a factory reset on the Fanlinc that's giving your problems yet?  If not try that as it will generally fix a lot of weirdness when trying to add devices even new one's.

[larryllix]

...especially new devices!!

[apostolakisl]

I am going to speculate and say that the fanlincs don't have power.  I am sure your fans were on switched wires before this, is it possible that the electrician didn't bypass whatever switch was there to get an always-hot wire to the fanlinc?  If you open the box, the fanlinc has led's that will be on if it has power.  red if the fan is off, blinking green if is on.  No leds = no power.  Also, if you open it up, you can push the set button to see if ISY finds it that way.

[DennisC]

As others have indicated, it is important to factory reset each device before adding them in. To assist with troubleshooting, here is some information from the Wiki - scroll down to number 4.

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:Troubleshooting_Flowchart

You can also search the forum for communications error, plenty of good information.

[apostolakisl]

No matter what you need to open up the trim piece (whatever they call that collar around the pole that covers the electrical hookup) and check out the fanlink.  No led's = no power to it.  led's on, then you have a com issue or you have the wrong address.  

I have never heard of a device not linking because it needs a factory reset.  So I truly doubt it will link after a factory reset if it didn't link before.  It could have the wrong address written on it, unlikely but possible.  But with access to it, you can put ISY into linking mode and hit the button on it avoiding the manual address entry into ISY. 

There is no harm in factory resetting it, so I would do that while you have access to it.

My bet is either no power, or a com issue.  If you had com issues, you would probably have other issues with other devices in your house.  The only caveat to that is if the fan or light is on and the fan motor or light are the noise problem.  

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, apostolakisl said:

No matter what you need to open up the trim piece (whatever they call that collar around the pole that covers the electrical hookup) and check out the fanlink.  No led's = no power to it.  led's on, then you have a com issue or you have the wrong address.  

I have never heard of a device not linking because it needs a factory reset.  So I truly doubt it will link after a factory reset if it didn't link before.  It could have the wrong address written on it, unlikely but possible.  But with access to it, you can put ISY into linking mode and hit the button on it avoiding the manual address entry into ISY. 

There is no harm in factory resetting it, so I would do that while you have access to it.

My bet is either no power, or a com issue.  If you had com issues, you would probably have other issues with other devices in your house.  The only caveat to that is if the fan or light is on and the fan motor or light are the noise problem.  

It happens quite regularly which is why people constantly recommends it

[kmyagel]

Thanks to everyone who has replied with suggestions for how to fix the issues with my fanlincs.  I've had no luck getting these two fanlincs added to my ISY or to the KPL.  They do have power and they both have red and green lights that blink.  I tried the factory reset several times and the fanlinc did double beep at the end which I think means it was reset but I still couldn't add it to the ISY.  I don't understand how I can have a KPL which is in the same room as the fanlinc and I can add the KPL but not the fanlinc.  If there was noise or something interfering wouldn't that also interfere with the KPL.  I am 100% sure that I'm typing in the address correctly because I took a picture of the fanlinc with my phone and zoomed into the address.  I also tried to manually link the fanlinc using the ISY in linking mode and that also didn't work.  I have 3 of the same exact fans in my house and the fanlincs were installed in all 3 of them and only the fan in my living room works.  I currently have 5 fanlincs, 2 eight button KPL, 5 six Button KPL and five KPL, 5 lamplinc, 2 applinc, 1 filterlinc  but I'm only having issues with 2 of the fanlincs.  I'm not sure what else to try .... any other suggestions for things I can try?  

[TomL]

Would be a pain the @$$ but you could remove the fanlinc, setup a test area closer to ISY and wire it up to a line cord, cap or tape off the fan and light leads and see if it is recognized.  You could also move one of the working fanlincs in its place and see if the problem follows the location or device.  It is possible that you somehow got a few defective items.

[apostolakisl]

5 hours ago, kmyagel said:

Thanks to everyone who has replied with suggestions for how to fix the issues with my fanlincs.  I've had no luck getting these two fanlincs added to my ISY or to the KPL.  They do have power and they both have red and green lights that blink.  I tried the factory reset several times and the fanlinc did double beep at the end which I think means it was reset but I still couldn't add it to the ISY.  I don't understand how I can have a KPL which is in the same room as the fanlinc and I can add the KPL but not the fanlinc.  If there was noise or something interfering wouldn't that also interfere with the KPL.  I am 100% sure that I'm typing in the address correctly because I took a picture of the fanlinc with my phone and zoomed into the address.  I also tried to manually link the fanlinc using the ISY in linking mode and that also didn't work.  I have 3 of the same exact fans in my house and the fanlincs were installed in all 3 of them and only the fan in my living room works.  I currently have 5 fanlincs, 2 eight button KPL, 5 six Button KPL and five KPL, 5 lamplinc, 2 applinc, 1 filterlinc  but I'm only having issues with 2 of the fanlincs.  I'm not sure what else to try .... any other suggestions for things I can try?  

It is either com or defective fan lincs.  Probably com.  Only thing to do is remove the fanlinc and take it to a test stand.  wire the hot/neutral/ground to a wire with a standard plug (computer power wires are great for this and you probably have several sitting around to sacrifice), then you can plug it in right next to your PLM and test.  Be sure to cap off the leads that go to the fan/light since they will be hot when the fanlinc is turned on.

It is typically easiest to use the ISY linking mode.  This would be considered the "automatic" way, typing in the address would be the "manual" way. 

 

EDIT: Just remembered fanlincs don't have a ground wire.  So just hot and neutral get wired, all others get capped.

[kmyagel]

Thanks apostolakisl  I am not able to test this myself but I am going to have the electrician come back and swap my fanlincs around so that I can determine if it's the devices that are the problem.  I have 3 fanlincs (patio and family room) that are working and 2 fanlincs (bedrooms) that are not working.  So, if we take the two that are not working from the bedrooms and try them in the fans on the patio, then we can determine if the Fanlincs are bad.  Because if the fanlincs from my patio work in the fans in the bedrooms, then it's got to be the fanlinc devices that are the issue.  
 

I did notice that when I was very close to the fanlinc in the bedroom that when the red and green lights blink, the device emits a noise.  The noise appears to occur at the same time as the lights come on.  Is this normal?  

[apostolakisl]

15 hours ago, kmyagel said:

Thanks apostolakisl  I am not able to test this myself but I am going to have the electrician come back and swap my fanlincs around so that I can determine if it's the devices that are the problem.  I have 3 fanlincs (patio and family room) that are working and 2 fanlincs (bedrooms) that are not working.  So, if we take the two that are not working from the bedrooms and try them in the fans on the patio, then we can determine if the Fanlincs are bad.  Because if the fanlincs from my patio work in the fans in the bedrooms, then it's got to be the fanlinc devices that are the issue.  
 

I did notice that when I was very close to the fanlinc in the bedroom that when the red and green lights blink, the device emits a noise.  The noise appears to occur at the same time as the lights come on.  Is this normal?  

I'm not sure what noise.  I have 3 fanlincs and haven't noticed a noise, but they are outdoor fans with indoor switches, so I'm not under them when I turn them on.  

If you don't do electricity, then have your electrician do the thing I mentioned.  It will be a lot less trouble then messing with the ones that work.  Just cut the female plug off of a spare extension cord or computer power cable.  Your electrician can wire that up in 2 seconds, then plug it in next to your plm.  Link it to your ISY using the auto-method (push button, not enter the address).  Using the auto method avoids any issues with the address printed on the device being wrong.  If it links with ISY/PLM, then you have a com issue at the fan.  You can try putting it back at the fan and see if you lose com with it from ISY. 

Fanlinc is a dual band device, so it is more likely a noise issue than a signal strength issue.  Unfortunately, Insteon devices can be getting a perfectly wonderful radio signal, but still be overwhelmed by noise from the power line.  They really should have separated those and allowed for disabling one or the other.  If indeed it links when plugged in next to the PLM, but doesn't communicate when wired in at the fan, you can experiment.  1) Try connecting the fanlinc at the fan to hot/neutral, but cap off the wires to the fan and light.  Then see if it works.  If it works now, then the fan itself is interfering with the com.  2) Try temporarily installing a filterlinc between the hot/neutral and the fanlinc at the fan.  This would require cutting an extension cord in half and splicing it in.  This of course would just be for testing.  If it works fine now, then you need to find the source of interference, or figure out some way to filter the power to the fan permanently.