asbril Posted May 30, 2020 Posted May 30, 2020 12 minutes ago, Eric_Inovelli said: Yes - 3 speed fan control and full dimming. I'll probably order 3 or 4 of them. ETA ?
asbril Posted May 30, 2020 Posted May 30, 2020 27 minutes ago, Eric_Inovelli said: Yes - 3 speed fan control and full dimming. I just ordered one (a bit pricey) and check it out. If all ok, then I'll order more.
Eric_Inovelli Posted May 30, 2020 Posted May 30, 2020 23 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said: Absolute certification vs non certified has nothing to do with whether or not a product will work with a particular controller or not. Certification only means that a device has passed the zwave alliance requirements (technincal and market) that it conforms to specific sets of requirements. This is why both chips are able to work with other devices while UDI is in this process (and partly why 5.0 is not official). Let's unpack this a bit because I want to make sure I'm understanding correctly so we can figure this out. If devices are Certified via the Z-Wave Alliance and conform to a set of standards, then why is there issues with the most basic form of communication (ie: inclusion/exclusion)? I would imagine if it included some weird way, this would be flagged during Certification, correct? Again, just trying to understand. I do, however, understand maybe why the more complex features won't work (ie: scenes, notifications, etc), but the basic functions should always work (inclusion/exclusion, on/off/dim) as you mention later in your post specific device handlers are required to, "unlock" different aspects of the firmware.
Eric_Inovelli Posted May 30, 2020 Posted May 30, 2020 13 minutes ago, asbril said: I just ordered one (a bit pricey) and check it out. If all ok, then I'll order more. Thanks! I'm not sure if they work on ISY or not. I'll have Eric M look into this as well and follow up. ETA on them can be found in that thread. I update it as often as I can. Mass production started yesterday - should take a couple weeks and then maybe a week or so to get over to Michigan.
simplextech Posted May 30, 2020 Posted May 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Eric_Inovelli said: I'm happy to send you some - shoot me a PM and we'll get some out to you. But I also guess I'm a little confused here as well. If our products are Certified, and work well on other platforms (and Zooz's do to), what would be the issue as to why they don't work well on ISY? Genuine question, I'm not a programmer by any means, so I'm more curious then anything. Happy to address both questions around "compliant" and around this one above. First the compliance item is around the Z-Wave Certification itself and the liberties that vendors take in the "optional" portions of the certification. I like to pick on Fibaro as my goto in this category of doing oddball things that are off the cuff but because they "meet the bare minimum" requirements for certification then they get the sticker. I've seen this with other vendors as well. This is why I also point to both ends of the stick and I do device verification with multiple platforms BEFORE I point the blame at the device or the gateway. Often it's a mixture of both where a device has "extra" things that are not part of the Z-Wave Certification specifications or sometimes not even part of the z-wave specification at all but those devices are generally designed to accompany and perform best with their own brand. Often times what I do with devices for ISY are not necessarily verification of "conformity to specification" but using the device and checking settings to provide recommended setup or notes. Such as (Fibaro again) those buttons are a real pain to include in any controller even their controller but it can be done but how they "show up" in the ISY versus another controller will make you scratch your head and wonder "what do I do with this?" Sometimes a dimmer is reporting back on basic report and the ISY is expecting "basic set" and that's just a flag in the options to toggle but if a user doesn't know then that leads to a "bad device" outcome. I post all results, good, bad, ugly to the Github listing (until there's something better) which lists the devices, vendor, info and notes if there's any setup challenges or issues. This github issue list is open to the public so please feel free to add your own testing information and results. Since you now have an ISY on hand for testing it's likely easier and faster for you to test than me. 2
simplextech Posted May 31, 2020 Posted May 31, 2020 9 hours ago, Eric_Inovelli said: Let's unpack this a bit because I want to make sure I'm understanding correctly so we can figure this out. If devices are Certified via the Z-Wave Alliance and conform to a set of standards, then why is there issues with the most basic form of communication (ie: inclusion/exclusion)? I would imagine if it included some weird way, this would be flagged during Certification, correct? Again, just trying to understand. I do, however, understand maybe why the more complex features won't work (ie: scenes, notifications, etc), but the basic functions should always work (inclusion/exclusion, on/off/dim) as you mention later in your post specific device handlers are required to, "unlock" different aspects of the firmware. So as to quote other forums. Here's the favorite Hubitat and the Inovelli bulb that is Z-Wave Plus Certified Hub keeps locking up This particular thread is in regards to the Hubitat hub continuously locking up presumed to be caused by the Inovelli RGBW bulb. This bulb may or may not be the problem as the bulb is a certified device and the hub is not a certified gateway. The "driver" in question is the one developed by Inovelli for this bulb so in theory everything should work but there's a user having significant problems not with just one bulb but several on this hub.... who's the blame? In the end when it comes to these DIY forums the fan boys of the system are going to defend their hub of choice no matter if this was a ISY problem or a Hubitat problem the fans are going to blame some device as the cause and wash, rinse, repeat with every "bad" device that someone has issues with on their hub of choice. There's really a flaw in any gateway that uses "drivers" to function and work with a Z-Wave Certified device.
simplextech Posted May 31, 2020 Posted May 31, 2020 On 5/30/2020 at 1:39 PM, lilyoyo1 said: I can say that I am pleased that Inovelli is at least willing to figure out something unlike fibaro who simply gave me the run around. This is something I can definitely give props to Inovelli for. They are very open to problem reports and have appeared active with finding the root of the problem and fixing it when it's their problem.
asbril Posted May 31, 2020 Posted May 31, 2020 38 minutes ago, simplextech said: This is something I can definitely give props to Inovelli for. They are very open to problem reports and have appeared active with finding the root of the problem and fixing it when it's their problem. I am very content that Eric re-joined this forum and seems to be paying attention to our concerns, like he was doing about two years ago. He also acquired an ISY for testing and hopefully that will ensure better integration of Inovelli devices in ISY. Until then, I mostly buy Homeseer and GE/Jasco devices. yesterday I had an old GE switch give up, after about 5 years and actually was happy to replace it with a Zwave Plus switch.
Eric_Inovelli Posted May 31, 2020 Posted May 31, 2020 16 hours ago, simplextech said: In the end when it comes to these DIY forums the fan boys of the system are going to defend their hub of choice no matter if this was a ISY problem or a Hubitat problem the fans are going to blame some device as the cause and wash, rinse, repeat with every "bad" device that someone has issues with on their hub of choice. Preach it... it's exhausting... lol. 1 hour ago, simplextech said: This is something I can definitely give props to Inovelli for. They are very open to problem reports and have appeared active with finding the root of the problem and fixing it when it's their problem. Thanks 59 minutes ago, asbril said: I am very content that Eric re-joined this forum and seems to be paying attention to our concerns, like he was doing about two years ago. He also acquired an ISY for testing and hopefully that will ensure better integration of Inovelli devices in ISY. We'll do our best -- I can't promise anything. Sorry to be blunt, but there's literally only one person who knows coding on the team and he often gets pulled into working with the larger hubs (ST, Hubitat, HomeSeer, etc) for integration there. Eric M. (there's two of us - I'm Eric H.) did acquire an ISY, but I also don't know which version it is and it sounds like that also matters. I did confirm with the Alliance that the ISY-994i-ZW+ was being sold as a Z-Wave Plus Certified device without the certification (seems it was changed to, "Available on Backorder" as of two days ago), so that could be some of the cause here, but again, we'll try our best to at the very least send samples to whomever we need to make our stuff work. Best case, we can try to figure it out ourselves, I just don't have a timeline on that, especially if it's a major issue. Anyway, I'm sure we'll go back and forth all day -- at the end of the day, I'm happy to work with whomever can help with the integration. Thanks guys! 1
lilyoyo1 Posted May 31, 2020 Posted May 31, 2020 24 minutes ago, Eric_Inovelli said: Preach it... it's exhausting... lol. Thanks We'll do our best -- I can't promise anything. Sorry to be blunt, but there's literally only one person who knows coding on the team and he often gets pulled into working with the larger hubs (ST, Hubitat, HomeSeer, etc) for integration there. Eric M. (there's two of us - I'm Eric H.) did acquire an ISY, but I also don't know which version it is and it sounds like that also matters. I did confirm with the Alliance that the ISY-994i-ZW+ was being sold as a Z-Wave Plus Certified device without the certification (seems it was changed to, "Available on Backorder" as of two days ago), so that could be some of the cause here, but again, we'll try our best to at the very least send samples to whomever we need to make our stuff work. Best case, we can try to figure it out ourselves, I just don't have a timeline on that, especially if it's a major issue. Anyway, I'm sure we'll go back and forth all day -- at the end of the day, I'm happy to work with whomever can help with the integration. Thanks guys! There's only 1 version of the ISY with zwave unless he purchased a used one (i highly doubt he did). Most likely he has the newer 500 series chip which is the important part. I added @Michel Kohanimso that he can be aware of things. While some of us install zwave for consumers and could potentially help you test things, UDI is the most important player as it would be them getting the devices to work properly with the ISY on their end.
Michel Kohanim Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 This forum is replete with our messages that we are waiting for Z-Wave+ certification (especially with regard to having an official 5x release). Z-Wave alliance is/ has been aware of this, and we have a certification form open with them. We will clear things up with Z-Wave Alliance shortly. With kind regards, Michel
Michel Kohanim Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 Hello all, Just wanted to let you know that we resolved the issue with Z-Wave Alliance so everything is back in stock. The story behind this incident is so disgusting that ... it's best left unsaid. With kind regards, Michel 1
lilyoyo1 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 34 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said: Hello all, Just wanted to let you know that we resolved the issue with Z-Wave Alliance so everything is back in stock. The story behind this incident is so disgusting that ... it's best left unsaid. With kind regards, Michel You can't say that and not tell us the story. That just makes us even more curious. Lol 3
simplextech Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 43 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said: The story behind this incident is so disgusting that ... it's best left unsaid. But... but.... now we're all waiting for the story.... 2
asbril Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 48 minutes ago, simplextech said: But... but.... now we're all waiting for the story.... Suspense.... 1
Michel Kohanim Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 Hi Guys, sincere apologies for keeping you in suspense. The party behind all this is the poster here (the link that Eric provided). Complete and utter garbage from an unhappy customer. Regardless, his machinations failed precisely because we have absolutely nothing to hide. With kind regards, Michel
simplextech Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 31 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said: Hi Guys, sincere apologies for keeping you in suspense. The party behind all this is the poster here (the link that Eric provided). Complete and utter garbage from an unhappy customer. Regardless, his machinations failed precisely because we have absolutely nothing to hide. With kind regards, Michel Your link is not working but I remember it from before and the info wasn't very "interesting" to begin with nor was this "ordeal" very disgusting... hear say from a anonymous user on a forum... hmm never happens.... sooooooo what's the good stuff or is that it? If so I'm disappointed
Michel Kohanim Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 @simplextech, Just updated the link. I am glad you are disappointed! He's not worth the time ... With kind regards, Michel 2 1
drich Posted June 11, 2020 Posted June 11, 2020 On 5/30/2020 at 11:12 AM, Eric_Inovelli said: Thanks! I'm not sure if they work on ISY or not. I'll have Eric M look into this as well and follow up. ETA on them can be found in that thread. I update it as often as I can. Mass production started yesterday - should take a couple weeks and then maybe a week or so to get over to Michigan. I'm looking forward to giving one of these a try as well. I'm surprised to see someone say "pricey" though, since they are less than half the cost of using a combination of a FanLinc and KeypadLinc like I do now ($160 for the pair). And given the problems I've had with the latest generation of the FanLinc, and the lack of support from what is left of Smarthome, I really need a replacement. That is, if we can get the inclusion issue with Inovelli and ISY resolved... (I think I'm going to break down and order the Series 500 board, if I can find instructions on upgrading)
asbril Posted June 11, 2020 Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) I had a few Inovelli and other switches that I had issues with, and yesterday I put this together to test and reset my old switches. Out of 10, one Homeseer switch just no longer worked and 2 switches were non Zwave Plus. Therefore I threw away 3 switches and have now 7 ready to be installed. I will use these to replace some of my Non-Zwave Plus switches. I am not concerned about range (with about 70 Zwave devices I have an excellent mesh network) but the old Non-Zwave Plus switches do not always report status. In fact, next time I have a new switch, I will first do the inclusion with this device close to my ISY, then install the switch in its location, followed by a "heal". Edited June 11, 2020 by asbril
drich Posted June 12, 2020 Posted June 12, 2020 On 6/11/2020 at 11:45 AM, asbril said: In fact, next time I have a new switch, I will first do the inclusion with this device close to my ISY, then install the switch in its location, followed by a "heal". I built myself a test rig a few years ago, it's really handy for pairing devices and testing out new configurations. It's made up of a double J-box, terminal strip, 120V neon lamps, and an appliance cord. 1
asbril Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 I am happy to report that I was finally able to make the Red Series Inovelli switch work, without a Neutral wire. As I previously reported I have one switch box at home where it is practically impossible to connect a Neutral wire. Several attempts to include the Inovelli switch had failed and a few weeks ago I installed a battery operated Ecolink switch which works. This morning I decided to try again with the Inovelli switch, but this time I first included the switch with Neutral and close to my ISY. Then I moved the switch to the desired location, without Neutral, and now it works.
Eric_Inovelli Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 19 minutes ago, asbril said: I am happy to report that I was finally able to make the Red Series Inovelli switch work, without a Neutral wire. As I previously reported I have one switch box at home where it is practically impossible to connect a Neutral wire. Several attempts to include the Inovelli switch had failed and a few weeks ago I installed a battery operated Ecolink switch which works. This morning I decided to try again with the Inovelli switch, but this time I first included the switch with Neutral and close to my ISY. Then I moved the switch to the desired location, without Neutral, and now it works. Awesome - glad to hear! Curious what changed from when it didn't work, to when it did? It'd be nice to understand so we can help others too. 1
asbril Posted June 14, 2020 Posted June 14, 2020 16 minutes ago, Eric_Inovelli said: Awesome - glad to hear! Curious what changed from when it didn't work, to when it did? It'd be nice to understand so we can help others too. The difference was to first include the switch with a Neutral wire (at another location).
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