JLOB Posted July 24, 2020 Posted July 24, 2020 Good day, I exist with the aid of Oxygen concentrators. I’ve a portable unit that travels with me when I leave the house, and a base unit that serves me the rest of the time. I recently changed brands on the base unit. The prior one had a toggle switch for the power. If left in the “on” position, the unit would merely restart after a power failure. The “new” one on the other hand, requires manual intervention via a soft push button. Power failures are anathema to COPD patients. In our home, the power is restored in 17 secs. via a Generac whole-house generator. The “old” unit had an alarm that would sound when power was withdrawn, and the toggle switch was in the “on” position. That was sort of annoying since I could usually sleep through the changeover if it didn’t sound. I actually thought of giving it a lobotomy to eliminate the buzzer. For people without a secondary power source however, the alarm is a definite necessity. Not to mention the fact that the rental agency would take umbrage at my modifications. I NOW have need for an alarm to indicate the fact that the power went out, and came back, and now someone needs to turn on the concentrator again. With that as a rather lengthy screed for the “why”, I could use your help with the “how”! I know that there are devices to determine if there is a load on a particular socket. I just don’t know what they’re called, or what the particulars are. I envision an X10 or Insteon type device that would do something if the power was interrupted, or was present, or absent. Hopefully I’d be able to use that event indicator to solve my problem. Any thoughts anyone? Thanks. JLOB ISY 994i Pro UD994 v.5.0.16C (UI and Firmware) A10/X10 for Insteon Portal Integration: UDI (21075)
simplextech Posted July 24, 2020 Posted July 24, 2020 First thought is place the system on it's own UPS system. A small one would work fine and run it for several minutes to maybe hours with just battery. This way there's no 17 second delay or actual power outage that the system is aware of. No need for anything external or controlling as it's self-contained and reliable.
lilyoyo1 Posted July 24, 2020 Posted July 24, 2020 I'm with simplextech. Something as important as that, I'd rather have a true failsafe vs trusting automation.
ralbright Posted July 24, 2020 Posted July 24, 2020 I'm also with simplextech. Putting that system on a UPS should be the first thing you do. That way the system always has power. Last I checked, breathing is still required for living. And living usually is good.
larryllix Posted July 24, 2020 Posted July 24, 2020 He is asking for an annunciation system, not a respirator power backup. However I don't think ISY is a good answer for this application for you as when the power is out ISY is usually also out. You need some battery operated alarm to monitor the power so you can take action and know when the power comes back on to manually restart the O2 concentrator. Amazon has lots of different models.https://www.amazon.ca/s?k=AC+failure+alarm&ref=nb_sb_noss
simplextech Posted July 24, 2020 Posted July 24, 2020 34 minutes ago, larryllix said: He is asking for an annunciation system, not a respirator power backup. However I don't think ISY is a good answer for this application for you as when the power is out ISY is usually also out. You need some battery operated alarm to monitor the power so you can take action and know when the power comes back on to manually restart the O2 concentrator. Amazon has lots of different models.https://www.amazon.ca/s?k=AC+failure+alarm&ref=nb_sb_noss Issue is when power goes out the respirator does NOT automatically turn back on like the old one. The issue is the 17 seconds of no power waiting for the generator to kick in which then the respirator is OFF and BTW there's no alarm with this model either so there's no wake up call. So really 2 problems. Problem 1 it being powered off requiring manual intervention. Fix this with a proper UPS solution. Most UPS's also have alarms so when the power is out they will Alarm quite loudly AND keep the power going to the devices.
MrBill Posted July 24, 2020 Posted July 24, 2020 I agree the better answer in this situation is to put the respirator on a UPS, so that it doesn't turn off during the 17 seconds during generator startup. perhaps a battery powered alarm should also be plugged into the UPS to know if the UPS fails.
jec6613 Posted July 24, 2020 Posted July 24, 2020 Get a UPS, and get one with a network card if you can afford it. It can itself fire alarms if the load is too low for a certain period of time.
larryllix Posted July 24, 2020 Posted July 24, 2020 2 hours ago, simplextech said: Issue is when power goes out the respirator does NOT automatically turn back on like the old one. The issue is the 17 seconds of no power waiting for the generator to kick in which then the respirator is OFF and BTW there's no alarm with this model either so there's no wake up call. So really 2 problems. Problem 1 it being powered off requiring manual intervention. Fix this with a proper UPS solution. Most UPS's also have alarms so when the power is out they will Alarm quite loudly AND keep the power going to the devices. If the time was critical it would have self-contained backup and an alarm or self dialing. This is not an emergency situation.
JLOB Posted July 25, 2020 Author Posted July 25, 2020 The UPS answer is certainly the easiest to implement if I was only worried about the power. The problem (and Larryllix gets it) is that the power will be re-established within 17 secs. The concentrator will NOT come without manual intervention. With no alarm, I’d sleep right through this entire process, oblivious to the fact that I was no longer getting O2! THAT might be a bit inconvenient. I’ve not had great luck with UPS in other applications so I’m inclined to skip that solution. He also (correctly) suggests that ISY, or other HA tools might not be appropriate due to the outage. While my routers and ISY ARE backed up via UPS, Larryllix suggestion was/is to use a standalone AC failure alarm. I’m going to do that. They’re cheap, easy to install, and he provided a link to a few hundred from which I can choose!! Thanks to all of you for your input. Technical queries are easily resolved via group effort. And the rest of the world thinks “crowd-sourcing” is a new concept! Be safe. JLOB
larryllix Posted July 25, 2020 Posted July 25, 2020 42 minutes ago, JLOB said: The UPS answer is certainly the easiest to implement if I was only worried about the power. The problem (and Larryllix gets it) is that the power will be re-established within 17 secs. The concentrator will NOT come without manual intervention. With no alarm, I’d sleep right through this entire process, oblivious to the fact that I was no longer getting O2! THAT might be a bit inconvenient. I’ve not had great luck with UPS in other applications so I’m inclined to skip that solution. He also (correctly) suggests that ISY, or other HA tools might not be appropriate due to the outage. While my routers and ISY ARE backed up via UPS, Larryllix suggestion was/is to use a standalone AC failure alarm. I’m going to do that. They’re cheap, easy to install, and he provided a link to a few hundred from which I can choose!! Thanks to all of you for your input. Technical queries are easily resolved via group effort. And the rest of the world thinks “crowd-sourcing” is a new concept! Be safe. JLOB ...and I hope these self-contained AC failure alarms have battery low/failure alarms. Maybe another box to monitor the other box that monitors the other box, that monitors th..... Stay isolated and safe!!!!
Mustang65 Posted July 25, 2020 Posted July 25, 2020 Just a question.... is the O2 concentration powered by 120VAC or does it use a power supply? Just wondering
Mustang65 Posted July 25, 2020 Posted July 25, 2020 Bummer! I have a CPAP machine that I use at night, nose permitting and I was lucky enough that it runs off a 120AC to 12VDC power supply. When in my RV, I installed a 12 Accessory plug next to my bed and wired it back to the battery (with a fuse). It did not matter if we were camping with shore power or just off the batteries, I always had power. During the day the SOLAR panels recharge the batteries. But, you may want to get a few small 12 VDC Alarm batteries, with a small 120VAC battery charger and hook that up to a small 100watt inverter*. If you have 120VAC your batteries will be charging and giving your unit power. If you lose AC power the batteries will provide your unit power to last through the night. Do you know how much power the unit uses? *This would determine the size of the inverter and batteries needed.
JLOB Posted July 25, 2020 Author Posted July 25, 2020 No clue how much it uses, but I know how to find out. Did you miss that fact that I have a whole-house generator? I'm never without power for more than 17 seconds. It's sleeping through the transition and not knowing that there had been a transfer, leaving me with no O2 until someone remembers to push the on button. J.
larryllix Posted July 25, 2020 Posted July 25, 2020 1 hour ago, JLOB said: No clue how much it uses, but I know how to find out. Did you miss that fact that I have a whole-house generator? I'm never without power for more than 17 seconds. It's sleeping through the transition and not knowing that there had been a transfer, leaving me with no O2 until someone remembers to push the on button. J. I don't think others pick up on it being urgent but not an emergency situation. I assumed this is an assist device, not a short term dependent device
tazman Posted July 25, 2020 Posted July 25, 2020 3 hours ago, larryllix said: I don't think others pick up on it being urgent but not an emergency situation. I assumed this is an assist device, not a short term dependent device But what the others are suggesting for a small battery backup for the oxygen it would not turn off and need the power button to be pressed and would not even require disrupting sleep since it sounds like the generator kicks on all by itself.
MrBill Posted July 26, 2020 Posted July 26, 2020 13 hours ago, tazman said: But what the others are suggesting for a small battery backup for the oxygen it would not turn off and need the power button to be pressed and would not even require disrupting sleep since it sounds like the generator kicks on all by itself. Which is why I suggested plugging Larry's battery powered alarm into the UPS. Then if all goes well, no need to press the power button and no loss of sleep. If on the other hand the UPS for some reason fails the alarm rings.
Teken Posted July 26, 2020 Posted July 26, 2020 I believe @simplextech hit the nail on the head on the first try suggesting a UPS. The OP has already confirmed his generator will kick in within 17 seconds and almost any UPS in the market, on any budget, can be purchased and used. This would completely avoid the unit from ever tripping (Off) necessitating to push the switch. I don't know why people are making this more complicated than it really is. If people just want to spend money and waste their time by doing X vs Y - Go Ahead! But, this isn't rocket science and comes down to how easy vs complicated, and money. The only thing I will call out is given 2020 technology there is absolutely no reason to buy a PWM vs Pure Sine Wave UPS - None! You simply can't go wrong purchasing a Pure Sine Wave UPS because it just works with everything. That is not the case for a PWM UPS because not all brands are created equal and can offer and impact the attached load or Insteon which is primarily caused by the internal UPS filtering. The more expansive Pure Sine Wave units in different VA ratings offer PF (Power Factor) correction which you can't go wrong having. As others noted if the unit is stationary purchasing a unit that has a network interface will allow you to integrate with almost anything. Major brands like APC, Eaton, Tripp Lite, CyberPower, offer many units that fit almost anyone's personal finances. Even if you are broke aszz go buy one from eBay going out the door at pennies on the dollar!
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