Insteon being discontinued?

[Teken]

You know the people it fooled???techies and those who care about benchmarks. The avg person doesn't know what a benchmark is. They just want a good looking phone that takes great pictures.
I've been saying all along (and you've unintentionally acknowledged), the avg user is easy to please. They are unaware or simply don't care which is why Insteon and others are marketing to them and not power users....buckle up, it's only going to get worse for power users
I'll have my 10 rounds now

Why yes this is predicated on the same not exploding and being banned by who - EVERYONE!

Back on point I’m not a power user. I’m just the average Joe who is looking to buy hardware that is critical in my home. My expectations is said device offers trouble free operations for easily ten years and beyond.

If the new Vantaa hardware offers this - Win!

If not history will once again record and document this failure. If one is completely unbiased and compares any Insteon Hub to a ISY Series Controller. The percentage of failures regardless of the sales amount clearly shows it favours UDI.

Outside of a electrical surge taking out the controller the top failures I have seen and read are: Memory Card, PSU, RTC.

Given none of the above is made by UDI the fact they selected to the best of their ability what?!? Quality components to integrate with the main system! So any reasonable person would beg to ask how it is a company based on revenue is capable of offering a controller with such failure rates???

I mean Michel and team are smart as hell.

But that isn’t it - is it?

It’s just plane common sense, testing, iterating, validating, over and over. Again it’s not seeking for perfection it’s striving for progress!

Both UDI & Brultech should have been called out as to *Who are these solid companies* when asked!

But got squirrelled along the way.

[lilyoyo1]

3 minutes ago, Teken said:

Why yes this is predicated on the same not exploding and being banned by who - EVERYONE!

Back on point I’m not a power user. I’m just the average Joe who is looking to buy hardware that is critical in my home. My expectations is said device offers trouble free operations for easily ten years and beyond.

If the new Vantaa hardware offers this - Win!

If not history will once again record and document this failure. If one is completely unbiased and compares any Insteon Hub to a ISY Series Controller. The percentage of failures regardless of the sales amount clearly shows it favours UDI.

Outside of a electrical surge taking out the controller the top failures I have seen and read are: Memory Card, PSU, RTC.

Given none of the above is made by UDI the fact they selected to the best of their ability what?!? Quality components to integrate with the main system! So any reasonable person would beg to ask how it is a company based on revenue is capable of offering a controller with such failure rates???

I mean Michel and team are smart as hell.

But that isn’t it - is it?

It’s just plane common sense, testing, iterating, validating, over and over. Again it’s not seeking for perfection it’s striving for progress!

Both UDI & Brultech should have been called out as to *Who are these solid companies* when asked!

But got squirrelled along the way.

Nothing about you is an avg user. That's like saying Lebron James is an average basketball player!

Whether we agree or not, the knowledge you have is much greater than most people.... 

UDI and other companies like them are the exception- not the rule. 

[sorka]

18 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

But it's not a professional product. Professionals may use it as an entry level product but that is not who insteon is marketing.

Insteon doesn't have to lower their price to compete. There are those willing to buy the cheapest product for any given reason and there are others willing to pay a premium for others

Professional level products are generally dealer only and cost many times more then insteon. Control 4, Creation, Savant, all fall into this category

But you are suggesting that they cater to the dumb consumer who only wants the simplest products. If they're going to do that, then they need to lower the price point from $50 to 100 per control down to $5 to $10.

[auger66]

11 hours ago, Teken said:

Why yes this is predicated on the same not exploding and being banned by who - EVERYONE!

Back on point I’m not a power user. I’m just the average Joe who is looking to buy hardware that is critical in my home. My expectations is said device offers trouble free operations for easily ten years and beyond.

If the new Vantaa hardware offers this - Win!

If not history will once again record and document this failure. If one is completely unbiased and compares any Insteon Hub to a ISY Series Controller. The percentage of failures regardless of the sales amount clearly shows it favours UDI.

Outside of a electrical surge taking out the controller the top failures I have seen and read are: Memory Card, PSU, RTC.

Given none of the above is made by UDI the fact they selected to the best of their ability what?!? Quality components to integrate with the main system! So any reasonable person would beg to ask how it is a company based on revenue is capable of offering a controller with such failure rates???

I mean Michel and team are smart as hell.

But that isn’t it - is it?

It’s just plane common sense, testing, iterating, validating, over and over. Again it’s not seeking for perfection it’s striving for progress!

Both UDI & Brultech should have been called out as to *Who are these solid companies* when asked!

But got squirrelled along the way.

 

11 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Nothing about you is an avg user. That's like saying Lebron James is an average basketball player!

Whether we agree or not, the knowledge you have is much greater than most people.... 

UDI and other companies like them are the exception- not the rule. 

Neither one of you are average users. I'm an enthusiastic average user supporting six ISYs on a very basic level. I've learned a lot from both of you.

Teken put out a defensive home layout plan years ago that I should have saved for posterity but didn't. I would love to see an updated version. It doesn't apply to me being in a condo, but I thought it was well-thought out and worth saving for future use.

Y'all are mostly in agreement. Can't we all get along?

Edited July 29, 2021 by auger66

[lilyoyo1]

2 hours ago, auger66 said:

 

Y'all are mostly in agreement. Can't we all get along?

We get along great. Don't let the tone of our debates fool you. While we may go at it like we do, there's a high level of mutual respect between us. Our off line conversations are much different. Lol

Edited July 29, 2021 by lilyoyo1

[lilyoyo1]

5 hours ago, sorka said:

But you are suggesting that they cater to the dumb consumer who only wants the simplest products. If they're going to do that, then they need to lower the price point from $50 to 100 per control down to $5 to $10.

No they dont. Insteon isn't going for that market. There's a reason those switches are 5 bucks. They are simply stamping their name on someone elses product. While a segment of society may purchase those products, most avoid them due to mistrust of extremely low priced goods.

This is especially so if you live in a luxury home or greater. This is the market insteon is going for. 

The look, feel, and feedback of the new devices when operated are all top notch. Something a person who desires high end without high end prices would be willing to get. 

Its like the old saying: "Don't ever lower your prices. Change your clientele"! There are people willing to pay

Edited July 29, 2021 by lilyoyo1

[Teken]

We get along great. Don't let the tone of our debates fool you. While we may go at it like we do, there's a high level of mutual respect between us. Our off line conversations are much different. Lol

You’re probably the small handful of people who have ever changed my mind or to make me sit back and reflect upon ideas and topic at hand.

I’m not looking for consensus but the facts as it pertains to a subject matter. If people come back with *I feel this - I feel that* to bolster their position I just tune these people out.

When facts can’t and won’t be listed out everything is pure guess. Now, many of us including myself could be called out as to guessing on a lot of topics as it pertains to this original thread.

As none of us know the balance sheet and debt carried. We don’t know how leveraged the company is or what kind of reserves never mind what the Insteon revenue generates per month / year.

What we do have is recorded historic events and patterns.

Anyone who has under gone or completed an forensic audit knows where this is heading!

These people look at the historic patterns as known to the public space. Because when it comes to business it’s always public!

You sell a service / product that goes into the public space. This information is collated and all of this provides a snapshot and inflection point about something.

If it hasn’t been said before this forum and many others comprise of some of the smartest and knowledgeable people I know that span every profession. I never expect to agree with anyone but always try to really understand a persons view or position assuming they make any freaking sense and don’t use I feel etc.

Feelings are not rooted in facts so much as they are emotions driven by yet another emotion FEAR. Whether it’s a lack of information which is what, FACTS. To them no being able to accept the information presented no matter the reality of the same!

To me this is akin to the growing chorus of flat earthers?!? Supposedly the people who believe the Earth is flat comprise of people who encompass every known profession! So this isn’t a true metric as to how truly stupid these people are.

Yet this belief is growing and spreading.

That thing which billions of people try hard every day to fine tune and challenge is called science!

Science is deeply rooted in facts that can be replicated by anyone who has the knowledge to apply the same. And I’m not talking about junk science because lord knows there are millions of these so called scientists that are involved in science but are truly stupid.

You can not have a reasonable discussion about anything when the litmus test is a flat Earth! Nor can you debate or discuss a subject matter when that person doesn’t believe in gravity?!?

Really, there are people roaming around this blue ball and don’t believe gravity exists. I’d love to meet one of these stupid people and push them out a 30 story building and ask them later how’s that non existent anti gravity working for them?!?

At the end of the day loli and I don’t agree on everything. But I know he tries to provide facts and insight to a discussion and use examples to illustrate his position. Nothing impresses me more when someone can take a really complicated topic ( not this one ) and tie it to something basic that a ten year old can grasp!

He’s still going to owe me 10 rounds when this is all done!

[lilyoyo1]

39 minutes ago, Teken said:

He’s still going to owe me 10 rounds when this is all done!

Do you really want to owe me another 10 rounds?

[lilyoyo1]

45 minutes ago, Teken said:

You’re probably the small handful of people who have ever changed my mind or to make me sit back and reflect upon ideas and topic at hand.

I’m not looking for consensus but the facts as it pertains to a subject matter. If people come back with *I feel this - I feel that* to bolster their position I just tune these people out.

When facts can’t and won’t be listed out everything is pure guess. Now, many of us including myself could be called out as to guessing on a lot of topics as it pertains to this original thread.

As none of us know the balance sheet and debt carried. We don’t know how leveraged the company is or what kind of reserves never mind what the Insteon revenue generates per month / year.

What we do have is recorded historic events and patterns.

Anyone who has under gone or completed an forensic audit knows where this is heading!

These people look at the historic patterns as known to the public space. Because when it comes to business it’s always public!

You sell a service / product that goes into the public space. This information is collated and all of this provides a snapshot and inflection point about something.

If it hasn’t been said before this forum and many others comprise of some of the smartest and knowledgeable people I know that span every profession. I never expect to agree with anyone but always try to really understand a persons view or position assuming they make any freaking sense and don’t use I feel etc.

Feelings are not rooted in facts so much as they are emotions driven by yet another emotion FEAR. Whether it’s a lack of information which is what, FACTS. To them no being able to accept the information presented no matter the reality of the same!

To me this is akin to the growing chorus of flat earthers?!? Supposedly the people who believe the Earth is flat comprise of people who encompass every known profession! So this isn’t a true metric as to how truly stupid these people are.

Yet this belief is growing and spreading.

That thing which billions of people try hard every day to fine tune and challenge is called science!

Science is deeply rooted in facts that can be replicated by anyone who has the knowledge to apply the same. And I’m not talking about junk science because lord knows there are millions of these so called scientists that are involved in science but are truly stupid.

You can not have a reasonable discussion about anything when the litmus test is a flat Earth! Nor can you debate or discuss a subject matter when that person doesn’t believe in gravity?!?

Really, there are people roaming around this blue ball and don’t believe gravity exists. I’d love to meet one of these stupid people and push them out a 30 story building and ask them later how’s that non existent anti gravity working for them?!?

At the end of the day loli and I don’t agree on everything. But I know he tries to provide facts and insight to a discussion and use examples to illustrate his position. Nothing impresses me more when someone can take a really complicated topic ( not this one ) and tie it to something basic that a ten year old can grasp!

He’s still going to owe me 10 rounds when this is all done!

I actually took some of your advice when I built my last house and will reuse it in my next home. Won't tell you which one because I don't want to hear i told you so. ?.

In all seriousness, it was your rant on grounding. You do provide great information even if I don't agree due to the nature of things. I know it comes from the right place and trust the information you provide. 

 

Edited July 29, 2021 by lilyoyo1

[DAlter01]

8 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I actually took some of your advice when I built my last house and will reuse it in my next home. Won't tell you which one because I don't want to hear i told you so. ?.

In all seriousness, it was your rant on grounding. You do provide great information even if I don't agree due to the nature of things. I know it comes from the right place and trust the information you provide. 

 

So, this movie has a happy ending

[DAlter01]

5 minutes ago, DAlter01 said:

So, this movie has a happy ending

Now, if we can only talk Michel/UDI into supporting the new PLM when Smartlabs finally releases it.  It sounds like a longshot.

Edited July 29, 2021 by DAlter01

[lilyoyo1]

10 minutes ago, DAlter01 said:

Now, if we can only talk Michel/UDI into supporting the new PLM when Smartlabs finally releases it.  It sounds like a longshot.

I don't think they are against it completely. I think they'd be willing to as long as insteon provided the necessary documentation and support behind it. 

[Teken]

I actually took some of your advice when I built my last house and will reuse it in my next home. Won't tell you which one because I don't want to hear i told you so. .
In all seriousness, it was your rant on grounding. You do provide great information even if I don't agree due to the nature of things. I know it comes from the right place and trust the information you provide. 
 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Teken]

So, this movie has a happy ending

Oh don’t you worry there’s going to be a sequel!

Coming to the UDI Forums Near You!

[larryllix]

I've already eaten too much popcorn!

 

[Teken]

I don't think they are against it completely. I think they'd be willing to as long as insteon provided the necessary documentation and support behind it. 

Truth be told Michel has stated his position about supporting any new hardware which is the balls in Smartlabs court to provide everything.

I would prefer the team focus their efforts on the migration of the ISY Series Controller to the Polyisy. Ideally using a backup to restore the image would be ideal. Would also like to see the Polyisy OS update process hammered out where it’s reliable and operates as intended.

There’s no reason for any paying customer to have to go into the shell to invoke override commands!

Which leads to finalizing core Insteon PLM / Z-Wave support. This should be followed by a path where the Wifi, Ethernet, and BLE is capable of being used to extend the controllers integration with other mass market products.

I purchased the Pro version because the company made statements this specific box would support the same. The fly in the ointment is nobody ever said - when!

So if history is any metric it’s a long way down to seeing this hardware support. In other related threads virtual software containers such as used by all manner of things was discussed. I don’t recall if any solid direction was called out but would like to affirm the same.

That this is a great concept and should leveraged as quickly as possible!

[Michel Kohanim]

@Teken,

WiFi is already supported. BlueTooth is supported through Python. 

With kind regards,
Michel

[Blackbird]

My uncle found out that the Insteon appliance module is discontinued.  He called Insteon and they confirmed it.  My uncle asked the guy if Insteon is going out of business.  Their reply was "I cant say".

[lilyoyo1]

8 minutes ago, Blackbird said:

My uncle found out that the Insteon appliance module is discontinued.  He called Insteon and they confirmed it.  My uncle asked the guy if Insteon is going out of business.  Their reply was "I cant say".

That's not news. It's been discussed quite a few times on this post already.

The appliance module has been gone for quite some time. They've also just announced a new line so most likely they aren't going anywhere

Edited August 9, 2021 by lilyoyo1

[larryllix]

11 hours ago, Blackbird said:

My uncle found out that the Insteon appliance module is discontinued.  He called Insteon and they confirmed it.  My uncle asked the guy if Insteon is going out of business.  Their reply was "I cant say".

Perhaps you meant the OnOff module? The appliance module was powerline only and discontinued before I got into Insteon, about seven years ago.

"I can't say" doesn't give a reason. Maybe he couldn't pronounce some of the words?

Edited August 9, 2021 by larryllix

[Brian H]

You may want to get the part number of the module in question.

The old power line only 2456S3 was discontinued years ago. As Larry pointed out. The present model was a Dual Band 2635-222 On/Off module.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Brian H

[Blackbird]

The fact of the discontinued module wasnt my point.  The fact that when asking Insteon if they are going out of business, they reply "I Cant say" is to me concerning.  Otherwise why not just say, "Of course not".

[Blackbird]

11 hours ago, larryllix said:

Perhaps you meant the OnOff module? The appliance module was powerline only and discontinued before I got into Insteon, about seven years ago.

"I can't say" doesn't give a reason. Maybe he couldn't pronounce some of the words?

My uncle took it as, the guy didnt want to say.  Maybe he read him wrong.

[MrBill]

7 minutes ago, Blackbird said:

My uncle took it as, the guy didnt want to say.  Maybe he read him wrong.

Support is outsourced and offshore now.... the rep actually has no clue what he's answering.  He shouldn't have said what he said.

[lilyoyo1]

It amazes me how people can find a post that was last commented on weeks ago but completely miss everything that was subsequently stated which contradicts what they are stating.

As @MrBill stated, support is outsourced and the chances of them knowing any of insteon's internal workings are absolutely nil. Even when they had in house Customer support they were notoriously tight-lipped. Unless someone was in management or was close to someone in management who told them, they weren't provided much information themselves. 

Besides that, In addition to new investments in their websites, they have a completely new line announced. Definitely not stuff a company going out of business imminently does