jimg Posted November 16, 2020 Posted November 16, 2020 Does anyone else get the sense that Insteon is being discontinued by Smarthome? They no longer offer the toggle-style wall switches. They no longer offer the micro modules (confirmed by telephone). The 6-button keypads are only available in limited colors. The 2413S powerline modem -- which is a KEY COMPONENT for home automation with the ISY series of controllers -- is no longer available. So it seems that fewer and fewer Insteon products are available. I don't think it's a temporary stock-out situation based on a phone call to Smarthome, but I could have gotten the wrong impression. Not that I really care because I only have about a hundred Insteon devices and three ISY controllers in two homes, representing an Insteon investment of thousands of dollars over ten years. ? Jim 1
jumon Posted November 16, 2020 Posted November 16, 2020 All my new or replacement devices are zwave. Power-line comms is problematic and the iron grip on the tech and development for Insteon has been an issue for far too long. 2
larryllix Posted November 16, 2020 Posted November 16, 2020 IIRC somebody reported the PLM problem is only a temporary stock shortage. SmartHome deserves a medal for the worst marketing style and foresight in the world. I think their product line is subject to whatever some random Chinese manufacturer thinks up and offers them cheaply each year. 1
lilyoyo1 Posted November 16, 2020 Posted November 16, 2020 43 minutes ago, jimg said: Does anyone else get the sense that Insteon is being discontinued by Smarthome? They no longer offer the toggle-style wall switches. They no longer offer the micro modules (confirmed by telephone). The 6-button keypads are only available in limited colors. The 2413S powerline modem -- which is a KEY COMPONENT for home automation with the ISY series of controllers -- is no longer available. So it seems that fewer and fewer Insteon products are available. I don't think it's a temporary stock-out situation based on a phone call to Smarthome, but I could have gotten the wrong impression. Not that I really care because I only have about a hundred Insteon devices and three ISY controllers in two homes, representing an Insteon investment of thousands of dollars over ten years. ? Jim I think corona has effected them just like it has everyone else. Factory shut downs along with shipping delays is hurting everyone all over (walk into your nearest BB, home depot, or lowes, and see how much stock is missing. I do know there is new products from other companies that have been delayed for 6+ months due to what's going on around. There are new products in the fcc database so that may be part of things as well. When new ownership took over, they decrease stock of slow selling items. Awhile that may impact those who want different colors, I'm assuming the looked at sales vs costs and decided cutting those products were worthwhile. I do know dealers have been sent emails stating when stock would be getting low and to stock up if needed. All this is supposed to level out in January...barring government shutdowns again all over the world.
jimg Posted November 16, 2020 Author Posted November 16, 2020 lilyoyo1, I hope you're correct. While SmartHome has issues, I have found the Insteon controls to be a worthwhile investment and I would like to extend that investment by being able to purchase new and/or replacement controls in the future. I have begun to investigate other alternatives (zwave, lutron, etc.), but just thinking about the effort to go around replacing 100+ in-wall controls makes me sweat. There are any number of posts here on the UDI forums about other systems besides Insteon, so I am grateful for those helpful resources. See also for a related thread of discussion. Perhaps I should have put my post there. Oh well. Jim
lilyoyo1 Posted November 16, 2020 Posted November 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, jimg said: lilyoyo1, I hope you're correct. While SmartHome has issues, I have found the Insteon controls to be a worthwhile investment and I would like to extend that investment by being able to purchase new and/or replacement controls in the future. I have begun to investigate other alternatives (zwave, lutron, etc.), but just thinking about the effort to go around replacing 100+ in-wall controls makes me sweat. There are any number of posts here on the UDI forums about other systems besides Insteon, so I am grateful for those helpful resources. See also for a related thread of discussion. Perhaps I should have put my post there. Oh well. Jim The good thing about all this is that nothing would stop working if insteon did shut down. Obviously replacements would be harder to find so at some point yes things would need to be replaced. The system.itself could potentially last though for many years afterwards. The only alternative to insteon for lighting is really Lutron (outside of high end systems). Zwave has enough issues on its own that I don't consider them a viable replacement to insteon (in regards to capabilities and flexibility). 3
palayman Posted November 16, 2020 Posted November 16, 2020 2 hours ago, jimg said: Does anyone else get the sense that Insteon is being discontinued by Smarthome? They no longer offer the toggle-style wall switches. They no longer offer the micro modules (confirmed by telephone). The 6-button keypads are only available in limited colors. The 2413S powerline modem -- which is a KEY COMPONENT for home automation with the ISY series of controllers -- is no longer available. So it seems that fewer and fewer Insteon products are available. I don't think it's a temporary stock-out situation based on a phone call to Smarthome, but I could have gotten the wrong impression. Not that I really care because I only have about a hundred Insteon devices and three ISY controllers in two homes, representing an Insteon investment of thousands of dollars over ten years. ? Jim Just tried to buy some dimmers. Out of stock on smarthome and amazon. Just need 5 more to finish off my new house. Hope I don't have to cannibalize my old place to do it.
Bumbershoot Posted November 16, 2020 Posted November 16, 2020 33 minutes ago, palayman said: Just need 5 more to finish off my new house. https://www.orchestratedhome.com/shop/pc/Remote-Control-Dimmer-Dual-Band-70p208.htm Might be able to find some here. I've had good luck with this site in the past.
palayman Posted November 16, 2020 Posted November 16, 2020 21 minutes ago, larryllix said: Remember these are listed in Canadian bucks. They are on sale right now. https://aartech.ca/search?controls[1]=switchlinc Yes, I use these guys a lot for my house near you. Somewhere warm right now so I need to use a US source. 1
jimg Posted November 16, 2020 Author Posted November 16, 2020 Thank you Bumbershoot, larryllix, palayman for the sources. Today, I was able to order a few Insteon devices from both Aartech and Orchestrated Home. Jim
aweber1nj Posted November 28, 2020 Posted November 28, 2020 Anyone receive any updates/news lately? Just setting up for the holidays and need to add/replace a few module, but finding they're sold-out everywhere. I can understand a parts-shortage from China (or anywhere), but is there any feedback from Insteon or SmartHome to say whether this is a temporary thing, or are they going to abandon the technology? Ugh.
Mustang65 Posted November 28, 2020 Posted November 28, 2020 Yesterday, I logged into SmartHomes and tried to get a 5 pack of on/off sensors, but they were out of stock. Just for the heck of it I logged on later in the day and they were available again. Last night I received an email that they were shipped. Today, I tried to get an outlet and it is out of stock. Will make an attempt later today, just to see if it is back in stock.
lilyoyo1 Posted November 28, 2020 Posted November 28, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, aweber1nj said: Anyone receive any updates/news lately? Just setting up for the holidays and need to add/replace a few module, but finding they're sold-out everywhere. I can understand a parts-shortage from China (or anywhere), but is there any feedback from Insteon or SmartHome to say whether this is a temporary thing, or are they going to abandon the technology? Ugh. It's a temporary thing. I know dealers get emails from time to time updating about stock levels so that they can stock up if needed before they run out. Just like every other company, factory closures and shipping delays are affecting everyone. Go to your local best buy, walmart or home depot, you'll notice how empty they are off stuff. Even specific zwave devices are missing quite often. Granted, there are more companies with zwave devices which helps. However, if you're an installer and you use specific things on a regular basis, you'd see how much is actually lacking. With all that said, they do have a new line coming out. Some of the products have already shown up in the fcc database. Edited November 28, 2020 by lilyoyo1
simplextech Posted November 28, 2020 Posted November 28, 2020 10 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said: Even specific zwave devices are missing quite often. Yup... try finding a GE/Enbrighten/Jasco receptacle.... sure there's a few on Amazon for $70+.... talk about price gouging! Jasco is sold out. However I did learn/find that Eaton has released their new Z-Wave PLUS receptacle and it's available at Lowe's.... BUT... it doesn't support Beaming!!!!! so... no use to me.
lilyoyo1 Posted November 28, 2020 Posted November 28, 2020 1 hour ago, simplextech said: Yup... try finding a GE/Enbrighten/Jasco receptacle.... sure there's a few on Amazon for $70+.... talk about price gouging! Jasco is sold out. However I did learn/find that Eaton has released their new Z-Wave PLUS receptacle and it's available at Lowe's.... BUT... it doesn't support Beaming!!!!! so... no use to me. I used to use the Eaton's before plus came out. The build quality is much much better than Jasco's and every one else's. I was disappointed to see they didn't support beaming. I was tempted to buy 1 to test to make sure it wasn't an oversight since the older model had beaming
asbril Posted November 28, 2020 Posted November 28, 2020 (edited) On 11/16/2020 at 9:52 AM, lilyoyo1 said: The good thing about all this is that nothing would stop working if insteon did shut down. Obviously replacements would be harder to find so at some point yes things would need to be replaced. The system.itself could potentially last though for many years afterwards. The only alternative to insteon for lighting is really Lutron (outside of high end systems). Zwave has enough issues on its own that I don't consider them a viable replacement to insteon (in regards to capabilities and flexibility). Over time I have come to have great respect for @lilyoyo1's knowledge and experience. He is possibly right when suggesting Lutron as an alternative to Insteon. For my part, I am entirely Zwave (more than 70 devices) and I am pretty comfortable with my setup. Yes, from time to time switches stop working, but generally everything works fine. The pros & cons (depending on one's one views and experience) are that there are multiple manufacturers and upgrades. I now mostly stick to Homeseer and GE/Jasco devices, though occasionally I use Inovelli when they come with innovative devices. Gradually I change all my old Zwave devices to Zwave Plus, not so much for range as I have an excellent mesh network, but because Zwave Plus comes with instant status reporting. Lutron was not a known alternative to me when getting frustrated by the Insteon PLM crashing and of course Polyglot did not exist at the time, and ISY gave me the option of Zwave. One's automation starting point determines what technology to use. Yesterday maybe Insteon, Zwave, today maybe Lutron and tomorrow ? Edited November 28, 2020 by asbril
simplextech Posted November 28, 2020 Posted November 28, 2020 2 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said: I was tempted to buy 1 to test to make sure it wasn't an oversight since the older model had beaming You do that and let me know
lilyoyo1 Posted November 28, 2020 Posted November 28, 2020 2 hours ago, asbril said: Over time I have come to have great respect for @lilyoyo1's knowledge and experience. He is possibly right when suggesting Lutron as an alternative to Insteon. For my part, I am entirely Zwave (more than 70 devices) and I am pretty comfortable with my setup. Yes, from time to time switches stop working, but generally everything works fine. The pros & cons (depending on one's one views and experience) are that there are multiple manufacturers and upgrades. I now mostly stick to Homeseer and GE/Jasco devices, though occasionally I use Inovelli when they come with innovative devices. Gradually I change all my old Zwave devices to Zwave Plus, not so much for range as I have an excellent mesh network, but because Zwave Plus comes with instant status reporting. Lutron was nota known alternative to me when getting frustrated by the Insteon PLM crashing and of course Polyglot did not exist at the time, and ISY gave me the option of Zwave. One's automation starting point determines what technology to use. Yesterday maybe Insteon, Zwave, today maybe Lutron and tomorrow ? Tomorrow....Control4. They'll end up with a diy setup one day 1
Teken Posted November 28, 2020 Posted November 28, 2020 Tomorrow....Control4. They'll end up with a diy setup one dayHigher luckily hood of being struck by lightning than ever seeing that happen. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
larryllix Posted November 28, 2020 Posted November 28, 2020 (edited) I notice with the question about Insteon existing tomorrow, the conversation went to how great every other brand is. LOL SmartHome/Insteon has shown every indication of folding up suddenly one day but nothing has changed in 5-10 years there and they still exist...partially with empty promises and new employees and behind the scene corporate changes. Relationships with China may have broken down and made dealings difficult for the USA, for now. Insteon has disappeared out of every brick and mortar store in Canada. BestBuy, Home Depot, Walmart, Costco, and many more have all dumped their products. Some day, many can tell me "The handwriting was on the wall", and, "I told you so", but I am still an Insteon supporter (with 75 WiFi devices) for now. The change-over will be easier as time goes by, likely better technology, and cheaper prices, anyway. I have most of what I want so far anyway. Now, If Insteon comes out with a plug-in device load (in Watts, or joules), I will rejoice and all will be forgiven for almost a decade of nothing! It would serve as an energy monitor for those climate shift OCD users and an indicator of appliances running, replacing the StynchroLinc Insteon previously destroyed. Blame it on COVID-19! Edited November 28, 2020 by larryllix 1
lilyoyo1 Posted November 28, 2020 Posted November 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, larryllix said: Relationships with China may have broken down and made dealings difficult for the USA, for now. Insteon has disappeared out of every brick and mortar store in Canada. BestBuy, Home Depot, Walmart, Costco, and many more have all dumped their products. There's no change in relationship with China. The only relationship they have is one where china makes the products they sell. All design and programming is done in Irvine CA. (some now in Seattle for app stuff). Even if they had an issue with China, it's not like they can't work towards getting products made somewhere else. Not even sure why you think that there's a problem there. In regards to store sells, most of them were ended by insteon themselves. The terms the companies wanted didn't justify what they were making off the devices. For example, they lost money selling at best buy and Menards. They were breaking even at other places. They werent equipped for what they were attempting at that time. Simply to small to compete like that with all the other stuff they had going on at that time.
lilyoyo1 Posted November 28, 2020 Posted November 28, 2020 50 minutes ago, Teken said: Higher luckily hood of being struck by lightning than ever seeing that happen. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I wouldn't be surprised. The DIY market is heating up while theirs is losing ground (comparatively speaking). All of them have started coming out with lower cost systems for smaller installs and moving towards app based programming for ease of use with dealers. Granted they can't nearly do what the full sized systems do, but it's telling.
larryllix Posted November 28, 2020 Posted November 28, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said: There's no change in relationship with China. The only relationship they have is one where china makes the products they sell. All design and programming is done in Irvine CA. (some now in Seattle for app stuff). Even if they had an issue with China, it's not like they can't work towards getting products made somewhere else. Not even sure why you think that there's a problem there. In regards to store sells, most of them were ended by insteon themselves. The terms the companies wanted didn't justify what they were making off the devices. For example, they lost money selling at best buy and Menards. They were breaking even at other places. They werent equipped for what they were attempting at that time. Simply to small to compete like that with all the other stuff they had going on at that time. Looks like you are attempting to state Insteon is basically done and bankrupt, again. If you don't think relationships with China have changed in the last year you have never watched a news broadcast in the last year. Country leaders only take so much being called "liars", "cheats", and blamed for every other screw up (gone viral) before trade relationships start to change. Try buying something from China now and see how the free shipping goes. Sure Insteon could get another country to manufacture their products if they can figure out how they function. Then there will be the increased pricing and lack of sales due to competition. Buh-bye. This is a fast moving tech field and Insteon can't play that game. Edited November 28, 2020 by larryllix
lilyoyo1 Posted November 28, 2020 Posted November 28, 2020 1 minute ago, larryllix said: Looks like you are attempting to state Insteon is basically done and bankrupt, again. If you don't think relationships with China have changed in the last year you have never watched a news broadcast in the last year. Country leaders only take so much being called "liars", "cheats", and blamed for every other screw up (gone viral) before trade relationships start to change. Try buying something from China now and see how the free shipping goes. Sure Insteon could get another country to manufacture their products if they can figure out how they function. I'm not staying anything of the sort. You're reading what you want into my comment when all of this is years old. Nothing new about what I've said. You are changing the subject matter to something completely off based. You're talking about government issues and putting that on insteon. Government problems would affect everyone who does business in china not just insteon. I'm referring to direct issues between 2 companies not wanting to do business with each other for one reason or another. Besides that, we all know just because there's problems doesn't mean it stops business. That's why Sonos still supports google though both are suing one another in court.
larryllix Posted November 28, 2020 Posted November 28, 2020 28 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said: I'm not staying anything of the sort. You're reading what you want into my comment when all of this is years old. Nothing new about what I've said. You are changing the subject matter to something completely off based. You're talking about government issues and putting that on insteon. Government problems would affect everyone who does business in china not just insteon. I'm referring to direct issues between 2 companies not wanting to do business with each other for one reason or another. Besides that, we all know just because there's problems doesn't mean it stops business. That's why Sonos still supports google though both are suing one another in court. Time will tell. By the last decade of empty promises, I doubt anything will change with Insteon's marketing, or products , until they fold up. The corporate struggling you revealed, makes that fairly clear.
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