ISY and Polisy *OR* ISY on Polisy???

[MrBill]

8 minutes ago, DAlter01 said:

Even writing the above paragraph will confuse a lot of people that don't realzie that "ISY on Policy" is different than "running an ISY on a Polisy". 

You actually have me really confused here....  I'm not sure those two are different. 

Any ISY-994 is dedicated hardware with a dedicated OS that's tightly interwoven with the software we know as ISY.  

The admin conole is something else entirely, it's a java client that talks to the ISY running on either a 994 or "ISY on Polisy"

Polisy is also hardware, but less dedicated and running FreeBSD as the OS.  The two main applications that run on the Polisy hardware are Polyglot, and what's being called "ISY on Polisy" but it's really just ISY, we are using the term "ISY on Polisy" to differentiate that version of ISY and the version that runs on 994 hardware.

Michel pointed out in another post yesterday that functionally other devices and clients see ISY version 5.3.4 running on 994 hardware exactly the same way they see v5.2.0 running on Polisy.  So UD mobile, or home Assistant for example can't really tell the difference between the two.

So, I'm not sure how "ISY on Policy" is different than "running an ISY on a Polisy".   The process running on Polisy hardware is simply known as isy... if you can't see the box you're connecting to, you might never know...

 

[DAlter01]

7 minutes ago, MrBill said:

You actually have me really confused here....  I'm not sure those two are different. 

Any ISY-994 is dedicated hardware with a dedicated OS that's tightly interwoven with the software we know as ISY.  

The admin conole is something else entirely, it's a java client that talks to the ISY running on either a 994 or "ISY on Polisy"

Polisy is also hardware, but less dedicated and running FreeBSD as the OS.  The two main applications that run on the Polisy hardware are Polyglot, and what's being called "ISY on Polisy" but it's really just ISY, we are using the term "ISY on Polisy" to differentiate that version of ISY and the version that runs on 994 hardware.

Michel pointed out in another post yesterday that functionally other devices and clients see ISY version 5.3.4 running on 994 hardware exactly the same way they see v5.2.0 running on Polisy.  So UD mobile, or home Assistant for example can't really tell the difference between the two.

So, I'm not sure how "ISY on Policy" is different than "running an ISY on a Polisy".   The process running on Polisy hardware is simply known as isy... if you can't see the box you're connecting to, you might never know...

 

Yep, my poor use of language but it illustrates the need for the 30k foot overview.  Many on these forums, like I did, omit the reference to the i994 when talking about their ISY program when they don't expand on which platform it is running on.   What I could have said was there is a difference between running "ISY on Polisy" and "running ISY from your i994 on your Polisy".  But, it seems in some of the forums I read when people discuss running the ISY on the i994 to their Polisy, they omit the part about the i994.  

You mention not knowing what the difference is.  Unless I'm wrong, ithe ISY on Polisy is not yet, or only recently fully feaured, such as full Z-wave support.  There are a few other items in addition that ISY on Polisy does not yet have in comparison to ISY on the i994, or that is what I believe I have read.  

 

 

 

 

[MrBill]

5 minutes ago, DAlter01 said:

Unless I'm wrong, ithe ISY on Polisy is not yet, or only recently fully feaured, such as full Z-wave support.

I was corrected just yesterday...

However the version with z-wave support also did just arrive yesterday... and from other threads I've seen it's not perfect yet.

[lilyoyo1]

2 hours ago, DAlter01 said:

@lilyoyo1

I here what you are saying.  The dummies comment was a little self defeating humor and was not meaning that UDI should be trying to market their product to average Joe homeowner.  I can handle most of the technical stuff but I hadn't read an overview of how the parts and software all fit together.  

And, in my view, even a very technical person that was looking at the UDI ecosystem from their website for the first time would have a tough time figuring out what parts and pieces were needed and how they related to build a functioning system and what the system could do.  They would essentially have to buy it and use it to learn the "big picture".  That, in my view, isn't how to peak the interest of the technically sufficient buyer pool they are likely targeting.

I want a full rich automation system and will spend the time and money to make it work.  I've had ISY systems for many years and have hundreds of functioning programs.  Some of these are, in my view, fairly complex.  I've reviewed the UDI webpage more than a few times and 've read hundreds of posts on Polisy, Polyglots, nodeserves, Rasberry Pi, etc. and yet I did not have clarity on the big picture of the next generation UDI ecosystem until today.  After all of that time and effort, for this potential buyer to not understand the big picture prior to today makes me think there is something missing in the message.  Or, I am just a little slower than most. 

The thing I thought was missing was the 30k foot overview to understand how the terms related to each other.  And, as it turns out, that was the case for me.  With just a few paragraphs from @dbussand a little more detail from @MrBilland @bpwwer, I believe I understand the big picture.

You mention the time and effort to write up a summary of every little detail in an evolving environement, it being costly, etc.  That is my point, that is what exists today, a lot of details and posts.  In an attempt to learn the big picture I kept ending up back at the UDI wiki which is a mountain of details, which are hard to understand without understading the big picture.  What is lacking, or I couldn't find, is a few paragraphs of overview that were beutifully composed today by the three names I mentioned above.  That overview will be the same for many, many years.  The details will, of course, change.  But that overview will remain for years to come.

In truth, many of the theories I developed through my prior research were mostly correct.  Though, not entirely, and I had no confidence that my theories were accurate enough to go out and start buying new products.   For instance, I  had figured out before today that I can "run an ISY on the Polisy" and that it was different the running "ISY on Polisy".  That is with many, many hours of reading on the forum and figuring out they are different.  Will the person, even a technical person, reading the UDI site or the forums understand with confidence the difference between these two options? Or, will they just think there are linguistic differences in how different people write about how the ISY works with Polisy and there is only one choice?  And, that same person will read in the forums about how there is still some work to be done on getting the ISY on Policy working fully and therefore think they should not run an ISY with a Policy since it isn't done being developed yet?  Even writing the above paragraph will confuse a lot of people that don't realzie that "ISY on Policy" is different than "running an ISY on a Polisy". 

 Anyway, my point was UDI might think about providing a clearer overview of their ecosystem.  In the end, I got the overview I needed today but I'm guessing there are still a lot of people out there that are technically advanced enough to use the UDI ecosystem but they do not understand the overview of how it can work for them, and so they move on.

 

 

I understand your point of view but I also a question whether or not things became more convoluted due to the amount of information out there that you read during your time. Information overload happens often in that manner. Instead of things becoming clearer they becomes more confusing.

I don't think anyone having problems understanding makes them slow. All of our minds consume information differently. I can read polisy's webpage and realize i still needed the Isy right now but wouldn't in the future. My wife who couldn't tell you the difference between a Mac and PC (except Mac is made by Apple), took it to mean the same thing. I can see where that could lead to confusion but i think it would cause people to question whether to buy now or wait more than anything else. 

[Wes Westhaver]

5 hours ago, MrBill said:

So, I'm not sure how "ISY on Policy" is different than "running an ISY on a Polisy".   The process running on Polisy hardware is simply known as isy... if you can't see the box you're connecting to, you might never know...

I've been confused by the lingo also. So far I've seen ISY referenced in three configurations:

1. "ISY" (ISY software on a dedicated hardware box)
2. "ISY on Polisy" (ISY software hosted on a Polisy hardware box)
3. "ISY on Polisy" (ISY software on a dedicated hardware box connected to a Polisy box) (via Ethernet LAN?)

I understand the first two implementations, but that third one is unclear to me.

-Wes

[DAlter01]

5 minutes ago, Wes Westhaver said:

I've been confused by the lingo also. So far I've seen ISY referenced in three configurations:

1. "ISY" (ISY software on a dedicated hardware box)
2. "ISY on Polisy" (ISY software hosted on a Polisy hardware box)
3. "ISY on Polisy" (ISY software on a dedicated hardware box connected to a Polisy box) (via Ethernet LAN?)

I understand the first two implementations, but that third one is unclear to me.

-Wes

Close:

#1 is the ISY software on the i994 which is UDI's older but still manufactured box.  This is the hardware I currently run and am extremly satisfied with it.

#2 is the ISY software on UDI's new box which is called Polisy.  I hear great things about it but haven't used it.  ISY is not 100% fully featured on the Polisy but it is very close to that.  The Polisy box opens up the ISY software to integrate with over 100 other ecosystems using another software program called Polyglot.

#3  I suppose one could say Polyglot can be run on other systems such as Rasberry Pi, etc. but what would be the point.  If you want to run ISY (this is the tool you want to use for home automation) then go with the older box, i994, or wait a few months and ge the Polisy and run the ISY on it.  These boxes are designed and supported by UDI which created the ISY program.  The support difference will be signficant.  

 

[Wes Westhaver]

@DAlter01 It looks like we are both understanding items #1 and #2 but #3 is still a bit of a mystery. According to the quote I posted at the start of this thread, the Polisy box will look for an ISY box on your network. But I still don't know why it looks for the ISY box or what Polisy will do with the ISY box if one is found.

On 12/2/2021 at 1:59 PM, Wes Westhaver said:

"Note: once Polisy is up and running, it will automatically look for your ISY on the network. As such, it’s best to make sure your Polisy and your ISY are on the same network. Also, please makes sure your ISY firmware is 5.3+."

I'm starting to think that the Polisy box will use the ISY box to gain the ISY software functionality but if that is the case, why wouldn't you just run the optional ISY process on the Polisy box ("ISY on Polisy") and get rid of the old ISY hardware box? Is this offered as a way to quickly adopt your existing investment of time, money and configuration into Polisy by allowing you to keep your old ISY box but manage it via the Polisy box?

So, how far off the mark am I?

-Wes

[ase]

48 minutes ago, Wes Westhaver said:

@DAlter01 It looks like we are both understanding items #1 and #2 but #3 is still a bit of a mystery. According to the quote I posted at the start of this thread, the Polisy box will look for an ISY box on your network. But I still don't know why it looks for the ISY box or what Polisy will do with the ISY box if one is found.

I'm starting to think that the Polisy box will use the ISY box to gain the ISY software functionality but if that is the case, why wouldn't you just run the optional ISY process on the Polisy box ("ISY on Polisy") and get rid of the old ISY hardware box? Is this offered as a way to quickly adopt your existing investment of time, money and configuration into Polisy by allowing you to keep your old ISY box but manage it via the Polisy box?

So, how far off the mark am I?

-Wes

ISY is not a box, it is a program. 994i is the box. ISY is currently defaulted to install on the Polisy Hardware(which is just a PC from PCengines). Polisy hardware runs FreeBSD as an OS, Polisy the program runs on top of that OS the same as ISY does. At the OS level both programs are unaware of each other. Polisy(the software) is just a connection point for NON-Insteon and NON-Zwave hardware to communicate with ISY. ISY is still the "Brain" that orchestrates the automation. Since the two programs are unaware of each other on the OS they still operate as if separate(different hardware). For Polyisy and ISY to communicate with each other Polisy(program) Needs to find the ISY, if being run on Polisy(hardware) it will just be the IP address and port 8080 with the username and password for the ISY(program)

Now PolyGlots are just small scripts that allow Polyisy to communicate with those other services or hardware(Tesla, Roomba, NOAA, and so on). 

Edited December 5, 2021 by ase

[DAlter01]

7 hours ago, ase said:

ISY is not a box, it is a program. 994i is the box. ISY is currently defaulted to install on the Polisy Hardware(which is just a PC from PCengines). Polisy hardware runs FreeBSD as an OS, Polisy the program runs on top of that OS the same as ISY does. At the OS level both programs are unaware of each other. Polisy(the software) is just a connection point for NON-Insteon and NON-Zwave hardware to communicate with ISY. ISY is still the "Brain" that orchestrates the automation. Since the two programs are unaware of each other on the OS they still operate as if separate(different hardware). For Polyisy and ISY to communicate with each other Polisy(program) Needs to find the ISY, if being run on Polisy(hardware) it will just be the IP address and port 8080 with the username and password for the ISY(program)

Now PolyGlots are just small scripts that allow Polyisy to communicate with those other services or hardware(Tesla, Roomba, NOAA, and so on). 

Well said.

[MrBill]

10 hours ago, ase said:

Polisy the program

I think you mean Polyglot.  there is no process named Polisy running on Polisy.

Polisy and 994i are hardware.  polyglot and isy are the software modules.

Otherwise you've given a very good overview, but this thread is raging with inaccuracies.   Several posts are very close, but then someone throws confusion into the mix right after. 

[larryllix]

I think you mean Polyglot.  there is no process named Polisy running on Polisy.
Polisy and 994i are hardware.  polyglot and isy are the software modules.
Otherwise you've given a very good overview, but this thread is raging with inaccuracies.   Several posts are very close, but then someone throws confusion into the mix right after. 

It was always an ISY994xxxx. ISY was a token nickname. 994i was never anything but a suffix.


Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

[upstatemike]

That is a good point. Before ISY was ported to Polisy the only place it could run is on a 994i so it was natural to just refer to the combintion 994i and ISY software as just an ISY... especially because the 994i is dedicated to ISY and can't do anything else. Polyglot running on a Ras-Pi or PC would always look for ISY on a 994i because that is the only place it could be. Now it can be co-located with Polyglot running on the Polisy hardware box so thinking of ISY and 994i as synonymous is no longer valid and I imagine referring to it/them that way can easily confuse newcomers. Once understood it is easy to picture yet somehow tricky to express clearly.

[MrBill]

1 hour ago, larryllix said:

It was always an ISY994xxxx. ISY was a token nickname. 994i was never anything but a suffix.

WAS...  I realize, but we are trying to put this into perspective for a large group of people that seem to be having difficulty getting it....  we aren't bending history much.. 26, 99 and 994 and really hardware models that had their own specialized OS that ultimately run "isy" (assuming that isy software isn't so tightly intertwined with the OS that it's not the same as the OS--which is a possibility.)  "isy" is replaceable firmware in the case of 26,99,994 it was running on that class of hardware. 

with Polisy, "isy" is no longer actually firmware but "software" running under FreeBSD.  I suppose that like "Integer variables" that don't have to be "integers" anymore we are going to continue to call ISY software as "firmware" because the "about" screen in the admin console will forever persist calling it "firmware"

[bpwwer]

I've seen Polisy and Polyglot used somewhat interchangeably because the Polisy ships with, and boots running Polyglot by default.  So for many people, Polyglot is what they see and use when they have a Polisy.

The same way we all used to refer to ISY and the i994 as just the ISY since it was/is a combined software/hardware device.

You have to look at the context the terms are being used in to determine what the poster is really talking about.  So, yeah, confusing.

The Polisy was designed to be just one piece of hardware running all the various software components (hence the name Pol[yglot]isy).

[MrBill]

1 hour ago, bpwwer said:

I've seen Polisy and Polyglot used somewhat interchangeably because the Polisy ships with, and boots running Polyglot by default.  So for many people, Polyglot is what they see and use when they have a Polisy.

that does add to the perspective and is something I missed in my thinking.

1 hour ago, bpwwer said:

So, yeah, confusing.

that sums it up well!!!  ?

[Michel Kohanim]

As mentioned before, we are masters of branding and marketing (not). 

@Wes Westhaver , please do not take it personally. It's not that we do not listen to newbies. It's just that, being geeks, we have a natural/innate aversion to sales/marketing comments, so they get automatically filtered out. For instance, if you comment that SNI does not work, rest assured that it will be fixed.

As such, till such time that we figure out how to do branding/marketing/website, please make your comments technical. And, if you have specific questions about the product and how it works, you can always send an email to sales@universal-devices.com.

P.S. As long as @lilyoyo1's wife gets the gist, then I think, as geeks, we have done a great job!

Thank you.

With kind regards,
Michel

[larryllix]

Now we need to stop Home Assistant people from using the previously taken by Home Automation acronym, 'HA'

hmmmm... maybe use 'Ho A$$' instead?

Edited December 6, 2021 by larryllix

[lilyoyo1]

2 hours ago, Michel Kohanim said:

 

P.S. As long as @lilyoyo1's wife gets the gist, then I think, as geeks, we have done a great job!

Thank you.

With kind regards,
Michel

You have. She automatically tunes out when it comes to this stuff. She's quick to say "that's what I have you for!"

[lilyoyo1]

The more I read these posts the more I see that confusion is coming because people are getting caught up in terminology vs focusing on what's in front of them. 

The isy994 is hardware that runs software which allows a user to manage insteon and zwave devices (along with other supported devices. It doesn't matter if one calls the software Isy software, admin console software or chicken mcnuggets. It's a box with software that allows a person to control smart devices.

Polisy is simply hardware that will eventually replace the isy994. At this time its an add on device to the isy994 so that users can add and manage additional devices that the isy994 does not natively support. 

Polyglot is the framework that runs on polisy (v2 can run on Rpi) which allows users to control non-native 3rd party devices such as hue, ecobee, harmony, Ring, and Sonos. The technical term for this is called nodeservers. 

Right now, The isy994 is needed with polisy because polisy (outside of alpha/beta testing) does not run the software needed to manage and control devices. It runs the nodeservers which the Isy controls. 

Once fully operational, users will not need the Isy to manage and control devices since polisy will be able to do the same thing. When this day comes, regardless of what a person calls the software, insteon, zwave, and nodeservers will all run on polisy.

While the Isy 994 will continue to be sold in the meantime (just like the 99 before it) at some point it will be discontinued and polisy will be the only hardware available and all this will be moot

[DAlter01]

31 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

The more I read these posts the more I see that confusion is coming because people are getting caught up in terminology vs focusing on what's in front of them. 

The isy994 is hardware that runs software which allows a user to manage insteon and zwave devices (along with other supported devices. It doesn't matter if one calls the software Isy software, admin console software or chicken mcnuggets. It's a box with software that allows a person to control smart devices.

Polisy is simply hardware that will eventually replace the isy994. At this time its an add on device to the isy994 so that users can add and manage additional devices that the isy994 does not natively support. 

Polyglot is the framework that runs on polisy (v2 can run on Rpi) which allows users to control non-native 3rd party devices such as hue, ecobee, harmony, Ring, and Sonos. The technical term for this is called nodeservers. 

Right now, The isy994 is needed with polisy because polisy (outside of alpha/beta testing) does not run the software needed to manage and control devices. It runs the nodeservers which the Isy controls. 

Once fully operational, users will not need the Isy to manage and control devices since polisy will be able to do the same thing. When this day comes, regardless of what a person calls the software, insteon, zwave, and nodeservers will all run on polisy.

While the Isy 994 will continue to be sold in the meantime (just like the 99 before it) at some point it will be discontinued and polisy will be the only hardware available and all this will be moot

Well, I guess that ends that discussion.  What do we talk/complain about next?

[ase]

14 hours ago, MrBill said:

I think you mean Polyglot.  there is no process named Polisy running on Polisy.

Polisy and 994i are hardware.  polyglot and isy are the software modules.

Otherwise you've given a very good overview, but this thread is raging with inaccuracies.   Several posts are very close, but then someone throws confusion into the mix right after. 

Didn't want to further confuse the poor guy, so I wanted him to differentiate polisy hardware from the software, he said he didn't understand Node and so on. 

[ase]

6 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

The more I read these posts the more I see that confusion is coming because people are getting caught up in terminology vs focusing on what's in front of them. 

The isy994 is hardware that runs software which allows a user to manage insteon and zwave devices (along with other supported devices. It doesn't matter if one calls the software Isy software, admin console software or chicken mcnuggets. It's a box with software that allows a person to control smart devices.

Polisy is simply hardware that will eventually replace the isy994. At this time its an add on device to the isy994 so that users can add and manage additional devices that the isy994 does not natively support. 

Polyglot is the framework that runs on polisy (v2 can run on Rpi) which allows users to control non-native 3rd party devices such as hue, ecobee, harmony, Ring, and Sonos. The technical term for this is called nodeservers. 

Right now, The isy994 is needed with polisy because polisy (outside of alpha/beta testing) does not run the software needed to manage and control devices. It runs the nodeservers which the Isy controls. 

Once fully operational, users will not need the Isy to manage and control devices since polisy will be able to do the same thing. When this day comes, regardless of what a person calls the software, insteon, zwave, and nodeservers will all run on polisy.

While the Isy 994 will continue to be sold in the meantime (just like the 99 before it) at some point it will be discontinued and polisy will be the only hardware available and all this will be moot

I like most of what you said, except what we call it matters. If you don't think terminology matters, just watch the show air disasters. Communication is the key, and is often a huge problem. I will take you statement from above as an example.

"Once fully operational, users will not need the Isy to manage and control devices since polisy will be able to do the same thing."

Stop and think about how that is phrased for just a second. Are you saying ISY the hardware won't be needed or ISY the Software won't be needed. Those are two totally different statements with the very same words, depending on what the person reading them understands. 

I mean if we want to get technical ISY has never been hardware, the ISY994i Hardware is actually a custom board with NXP's Coldfire Chip. 

Firmware Technically is a low level SOFTWARE that controls the chips themselves. So technically speaking ISY has never been a Firmware from the strictest sense of the word, it has alway been a program the runs on top of some OS. I have no Idea which OS was used with the Coldfire chips. 

So again depending on the knowledge of the reader a statement like we see here could mean something very different. 

Coming from 25+ years in computers, with and in depth understanding of Linux and BSD, having worked in many programing languages and having been on the hardware integration side as well. I am going to see things very different from someone who has little background in these things and is just trying to control some lights and a sprinkler system from their phone. 

What I am getting at here, is language is the single most important aspect. Miscommunication is at the heart of most of the worlds big disasters. Language is how we think and therefore how we act. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by ase

[lilyoyo1]

5 hours ago, ase said:

I like most of what you said, except what we call it matters. If you don't think terminology matters, just watch the show air disasters. Communication is the key, and is often a huge problem. I will take you statement from above as an example.

"Once fully operational, users will not need the Isy to manage and control devices since polisy will be able to do the same thing."

Stop and think about how that is phrased for just a second. Are you saying ISY the hardware won't be needed or ISY the Software won't be needed. Those are two totally different statements with the very same words, depending on what the person reading them understands. 

I mean if we want to get technical ISY has never been hardware, the ISY994i Hardware is actually a custom board with NXP's Coldfire Chip. 

Firmware Technically is a low level SOFTWARE that controls the chips themselves. So technically speaking ISY has never been a Firmware from the strictest sense of the word, it has alway been a program the runs on top of some OS. I have no Idea which OS was used with the Coldfire chips. 

So again depending on the knowledge of the reader a statement like we see here could mean something very different. 

Coming from 25+ years in computers, with and in depth understanding of Linux and BSD, having worked in many programing languages and having been on the hardware integration side as well. I am going to see things very different from someone who has little background in these things and is just trying to control some lights and a sprinkler system from their phone. 

What I am getting at here, is language is the single most important aspect. Miscommunication is at the heart of most of the worlds big disasters. Language is how we think and therefore how we act. 

You're taking my comment too literal. Of course names matter. If everyone was named "you", then no one would know who people were talking to.

In this specific case, im trying to make something easy to understand and break down what's happening, the name is not the focal point. The point that I was making is that the software could be called anything. It's just a name.

If you read all the comments, people are haggling over whether the software is called Isy or something else, which is causing others to be even more confused. That's great you're into computers but not everyone is and most won't have your knowledge. That's who this is for!

You're adding technical information for for non technical people (or various degrees of technical understanding) that is already having a hard time understanding. How does that help them, when they asked for an easy explanation?

The fact is, the name doesn't matter for the subject at hand. We can call the software Cookie monster. It's still the software. If Michel came on here and said the software was called cookie monster- does that change what it does? 

I was trying to simplify things for a few users that was having issues understanding things vs causing more confusion because of a name or being absolutely technical

I CLEARLY stated the isy994 hardware would be going away at some point and polisy would be all that's left. Not once did I say there wouldn't be software. It's all about context concerning overall posts than 1 single post

Edited December 6, 2021 by lilyoyo1

[larryllix]

5 hours ago, ase said:

I like most of what you said, except what we call it matters. If you don't think terminology matters, just watch the show air disasters. Communication is the key, and is often a huge problem. I will take you statement from above as an example.

"Once fully operational, users will not need the Isy to manage and control devices since polisy will be able to do the same thing."

Stop and think about how that is phrased for just a second. Are you saying ISY the hardware won't be needed or ISY the Software won't be needed. Those are two totally different statements with the very same words, depending on what the person reading them understands. 

I mean if we want to get technical ISY has never been hardware, the ISY994i Hardware is actually a custom board with NXP's Coldfire Chip. 

Firmware Technically is a low level SOFTWARE that controls the chips themselves. So technically speaking ISY has never been a Firmware from the strictest sense of the word, it has alway been a program the runs on top of some OS. I have no Idea which OS was used with the Coldfire chips. 

So again depending on the knowledge of the reader a statement like we see here could mean something very different. 

Coming from 25+ years in computers, with and in depth understanding of Linux and BSD, having worked in many programing languages and having been on the hardware integration side as well. I am going to see things very different from someone who has little background in these things and is just trying to control some lights and a sprinkler system from their phone. 

What I am getting at here, is language is the single most important aspect. Miscommunication is at the heart of most of the worlds big disasters. Language is how we think and therefore how we act. 

The problem here is that ISY994 was a combination piece of hardware containing a piece of software initially, and now the software and hardware are parting ways.

The trouble now is that users are arbitrarily trying to assign names  (to hardware and software) that previously belonged to a combination box. None of them is currently definitive and a bend of the de facto and already established definitions.

UDI has been the creator of this naming confusion and will be the only arbitrator and resolver of this, in the end. The rest is just semantics among users until then and definitions are not clear.

[Michel Kohanim]

2 hours ago, larryllix said:

UDI has been the creator of this naming confusion and will be the only arbitrator and resolver of this,

Or not ?!

With kind regards,

Michel