Insteon SwitchLinc started beeping out of nowhere

[Gunn]

I've only had my ISY for less than a week. So I'm still learning how to work with this thing. I have searched the forum for this issue and there are several old posts about it, but no real solutions as to why it is happening. There are posts going back to 2014 

 and some more recent in 2019 

 But again, no reason why or how to fix it.

Now my turn. But all of a sudden one of my SwitchLinc v41 devices (1 of 56 Insteon devices) started to beep and the ramp rate was incredibly slow (like at first we thought it wasn't even working). I've had this particular switch installed for 5+ years, previously using the Insteon Hub. Never beeped once. The issue is identically like the first link I posted above, with the beeping and the really slow ramp rate.

I was able to view the switch in the ISY and change the ramp rate to our default in our house of 0.5 seconds. And that took. But I can't fix the beep. Even with the beep set to off in the ISY, the thing still beeps!!

Can anyone point me to a way to fix this thing, without performing a factory reset?! Very frustrating.

Thanks, 

[Techman]

20 minutes ago, Gunn said:

I've only had my ISY for less than a week. So I'm still learning how to work with this thing. I have searched the forum for this issue and there are several old posts about it, but no real solutions as to why it is happening. There are posts going back to 2014 

 and some more recent in 2019 

 But again, no reason why or how to fix it.

Now my turn. But all of a sudden one of my SwitchLinc v41 devices (1 of 56 Insteon devices) started to beep and the ramp rate was incredibly slow (like at first we thought it wasn't even working). I've had this particular switch installed for 5+ years, previously using the Insteon Hub. Never beeped once. The issue is identically like the first link I posted above, with the beeping and the really slow ramp rate.

I was able to view the switch in the ISY and change the ramp rate to our default in our house of 0.5 seconds. And that took. But I can't fix the beep. Even with the beep set to off in the ISY, the thing still beeps!!

Can anyone point me to a way to fix this thing, without performing a factory reset?! Very frustrating.

Thanks, 

When you make changes to a value you need to click on the button to the left, i.e. "BEEP" to save it.

What are your firmware and UI versions?

 

 

[Gunn]

Thanks for the quick response. Yes, I did indeed click the "Beep" button after setting it to 0.

Firmware: Insteon_UD994 v5.0.16C ( 2020-01-25-12:26:39 )

UI: Insteon_UD994 v5.0.16C ( 2020-01-25 12:26:39 )

But here is the thing that makes no sense. I was able to do this with help; someone standing by the switch. No matter what I set the "Beep" dropdown to (0, 1, 5, 3, 10, etc) as soon as I make a selection in that dropdown, the switch will beep ONE time. Note that I did NOT press the "Beep" button. 

Now, if I press the "Beep" button with the dropdown on any value (0, 5, 3, 10, etc) the switch again will only beep ONE time. 

Turning the light on and off at the switch results in a single beep no matter what the value of the dropdown.

If I change the value of the On dropdown to 100%, the switch immediately turns on...with no beep (not that I did NOT press the "On" button. If I change the value of the On dropdown to 0%, the switch immediately turns off...with no beep.

I really am confused by the beep, and the ISY user interface (UI). It seems those buttons are pointless...because I don't have to press them to get anything done. Simply changing the dropdown menu selection immediately changes the switch to that value. Very unintuitive. 

Is this the expected behavior of the UI?  And still...the beep remains!

Thanks,

[larryllix]

Just don't press the beep button if you don't want the beep to beep.

I have always found the beep function useless ad it is not audible unless you have your ear to the device.

The time length has never functioned on any of my 25 or 40 Insteon devices.

This is not the fault of your ISY but rather the fault of Insteon that never haf a clue what the Chinese designers made the devices do. Proof of that is they cannot supply specs to 3rd party developers.

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

[lilyoyo1]

44 minutes ago, larryllix said:

Just don't press the beep button if you don't want the beep to beep.

I have always found the beep function useless ad it is not audible unless you have your ear to the device.

The time length has never functioned on any of my 25 or 40 Insteon devices.

This is not the fault of your ISY but rather the fault of Insteon that never haf a clue what the Chinese designers made the devices do. Proof of that is they cannot supply specs to 3rd party developers.

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk
 

That makes absolutely zero sense. Them choosing not to supply specs has nothing to do with them not knowing something....especially if they built it into their system and other systems support those things. That means it's documented somewhere. 

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, Gunn said:

Thanks for the quick response. Yes, I did indeed click the "Beep" button after setting it to 0.

Firmware: Insteon_UD994 v5.0.16C ( 2020-01-25-12:26:39 )

UI: Insteon_UD994 v5.0.16C ( 2020-01-25 12:26:39 )

But here is the thing that makes no sense. I was able to do this with help; someone standing by the switch. No matter what I set the "Beep" dropdown to (0, 1, 5, 3, 10, etc) as soon as I make a selection in that dropdown, the switch will beep ONE time. Note that I did NOT press the "Beep" button. 

Now, if I press the "Beep" button with the dropdown on any value (0, 5, 3, 10, etc) the switch again will only beep ONE time. 

Turning the light on and off at the switch results in a single beep no matter what the value of the dropdown.

If I change the value of the On dropdown to 100%, the switch immediately turns on...with no beep (not that I did NOT press the "On" button. If I change the value of the On dropdown to 0%, the switch immediately turns off...with no beep.

I really am confused by the beep, and the ISY user interface (UI). It seems those buttons are pointless...because I don't have to press them to get anything done. Simply changing the dropdown menu selection immediately changes the switch to that value. Very unintuitive. 

Is this the expected behavior of the UI?  And still...the beep remains!

Thanks,

Factory reset the switch and test it. Does it beep? Restore it to the Isy. Does it start beeping again

[Geddy]

@Gunn Be sure when you factory reset it to follow the directions exactly! Some have had issues with being able to hold in the set button long enough and it doesn't fully reset. 

 

From the manual: (#2477Sxx)

Factory Reset 
Factory Reset clears all user settings from SwitchLinc including INSTEON scenes, X10 addresses, etc. 

1) Pull out Set button to create an air gap See Air Gap (Removing Power).
2) Wait 10 seconds. 
3) Press and hold the Set button.
 
 
SwitchLinc will begin to emit a long beep. 
4) Don’t release Set button until beeping stops.
5) Release Set button.
After a few seconds, SwitchLinc will double-beep.
The load/light(s) will turn on.
LED will return to default brightness.
 

To restore the device in the ISY (make sure it is NOT in a folder?

Right click on the device
Restore Device

 

You shouldn't have to go through the linking phase again.

[Gunn]

On 12/10/2021 at 9:24 PM, larryllix said:

Just don't press the beep button if you don't want the beep to beep.

I have always found the beep function useless ad it is not audible unless you have your ear to the device.
 

Say what? The Insteon SwitchLinc dimmer is beeping when I press the on/off paddle of the switch. 

And it is clearly audible, from even 10 feet away. 

[larryllix]

Say what? The Insteon SwitchLinc dimmer is beeping when I press the on/off paddle of the switch. 
And it is clearly audible, from even 10 feet away. 

My apologies. I missed the local operation you reported.

All of my 7 Switchlincs buzzers cannot be heard more than a few feet away.

Make sure you factory reset each one. I had an OnOffLinc send scene on commands for about a year, in response to the on command until I power cycled it. The little computers inside can do anything in the event of a program crash.

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

[Gunn]

On 12/10/2021 at 10:12 PM, lilyoyo1 said:

Factory reset the switch and test it. Does it beep? Restore it to the Isy. Does it start beeping again

Well, unfortunately this thread is not going to have a solution, just like all the others. 

I have 57 devices in my home and I have used the Hub ever since the Hub came out (had Insteon devices even before the Hub existed). So when I just got the ISY994 I didn't want to mess with anything. So when I added my first device to the ISY/PLM, I had it scour the Insteon links and it pulled in all of my devices in one fell swoop for the most part. I was impressed!

However, the ISY seemed to have messed up every single of of my KeypadLincs. The lights didn't correspond with the button presses anymore (a lot of them control Fans), and all kinds of weird things. Then this beeping started on the one switch. And the numerous scenes that the ISY created made no sense to me....I couldn't figure them out. They didn't seem to jive with what was actually happening in my home.

So today I printed a checklist and went through and factory reset EVERY.SINGLE.ONE. of my Insteon devices, from the crawl space to the attic. Argghhh. Then I reset and unplugged the Hub (hopefully for good) and reset the PLM and the ISY994. 

Now I am starting over adding devices one by one and creating scenes. Everything is much more intuitive and making sense. Easier to organize as you go. But I have found lots of discrepancies in the documentation. Looks like it hasn't been updated in awhile as the UI has changed. But that's for another topic.

Bottom line, no more beeping from that switch after a factory reset. Shrug. No idea.

Thanks for the help though!

[larryllix]

11 hours ago, Gunn said:

Well, unfortunately this thread is not going to have a solution, just like all the others. 

I have 57 devices in my home and I have used the Hub ever since the Hub came out (had Insteon devices even before the Hub existed). So when I just got the ISY994 I didn't want to mess with anything. So when I added my first device to the ISY/PLM, I had it scour the Insteon links and it pulled in all of my devices in one fell swoop for the most part. I was impressed!

However, the ISY seemed to have messed up every single of of my KeypadLincs. The lights didn't correspond with the button presses anymore (a lot of them control Fans), and all kinds of weird things. Then this beeping started on the one switch. And the numerous scenes that the ISY created made no sense to me....I couldn't figure them out. They didn't seem to jive with what was actually happening in my home.

So today I printed a checklist and went through and factory reset EVERY.SINGLE.ONE. of my Insteon devices, from the crawl space to the attic. Argghhh. Then I reset and unplugged the Hub (hopefully for good) and reset the PLM and the ISY994. 

Now I am starting over adding devices one by one and creating scenes. Everything is much more intuitive and making sense. Easier to organize as you go. But I have found lots of discrepancies in the documentation. Looks like it hasn't been updated in awhile as the UI has changed. But that's for another topic.

Bottom line, no more beeping from that switch after a factory reset. Shrug. No idea.

Thanks for the help though!

So a proper factory reset is working well then by your last post.

Your problem sounds to be quite fixable and you just have to continue factory resetting devices properly, to rid them of old Hub links and remnants.

 

[lilyoyo1]

12 hours ago, Gunn said:

Well, unfortunately this thread is not going to have a solution, just like all the others. 

I have 57 devices in my home and I have used the Hub ever since the Hub came out (had Insteon devices even before the Hub existed). So when I just got the ISY994 I didn't want to mess with anything. So when I added my first device to the ISY/PLM, I had it scour the Insteon links and it pulled in all of my devices in one fell swoop for the most part. I was impressed!

However, the ISY seemed to have messed up every single of of my KeypadLincs. The lights didn't correspond with the button presses anymore (a lot of them control Fans), and all kinds of weird things. Then this beeping started on the one switch. And the numerous scenes that the ISY created made no sense to me....I couldn't figure them out. They didn't seem to jive with what was actually happening in my home.

So today I printed a checklist and went through and factory reset EVERY.SINGLE.ONE. of my Insteon devices, from the crawl space to the attic. Argghhh. Then I reset and unplugged the Hub (hopefully for good) and reset the PLM and the ISY994. 

Now I am starting over adding devices one by one and creating scenes. Everything is much more intuitive and making sense. Easier to organize as you go. But I have found lots of discrepancies in the documentation. Looks like it hasn't been updated in awhile as the UI has changed. But that's for another topic.

Bottom line, no more beeping from that switch after a factory reset. Shrug. No idea.

Thanks for the help though!

It does have a solution....factory reset the device. 

With that said, this is why it's important to provide as much information as possible about your issue. Had you given those additional details in the beginning, everyone's answer would've been to factory reset your devices and start with a clean slate.

[Gunn]

On 12/13/2021 at 8:48 PM, ase said:

This is why it is best to create a spreadsheet of all of your devices, addresses, names, and scenes. Then when you need to change things you don't need to run around pushing buttons and linking. 

I have exactly that. An Excel spreadsheet with all of my devices listed which includes their name, their Insteon address, where they are located, they model number and firmware revision, etc. However, I don't know how that would prevent me from having to run around pushing buttons and linking? The only way to perform a factory reset is to do exactly that...run around push buttons. 

On 12/13/2021 at 8:48 PM, ase said:

Having isy just scan the insteon links with a hub connected always leads to problem. To use isy and hub together you need to unplug hub before scanning. Although I would never suggest to anyone to use both. Isy can do everything hub can do plus much much more.

Then this should be more clearly written in the instructions. After all, I was/am a newbie...just following instructions from plugging it in to adding my first device. The way I did it was one of the options: add one device and have the ISY crawl through the network adding devices it found in links. So that's what I chose. If this is not a proper way to do it, then that option should be removed. 

Bottom line, none of this should have caused my switch to begin beeping, just like all of the older posts. And once it began beeping, the ISY should have reflected that mode of operation. And then I should have been able to have the ISY tell my switch to STOP beeping. The ISY caused it, it should have been able to fix it. 

[larryllix]

5 hours ago, ase said:

You don't need to do factory reset on anything. Simply add the devices. If you want the existing links removed Simply use that option. However, even that is going to lead to alot of unnecessary work. Simply use the keep existing links and add devices option. The only items that the buttons need to be pressed are on wireless items like remotes/sensors. You are making things difficult on yourself. The links and scenes are stored in each device with insteon and therefore most setups require only minor adjustments after adding. If I need to rebuild my setup for any reason I just add the closest item to my unit and give it a half hour to scan all links after that I add my sensors and bingo everything is there. The only thing I need to do rename each item. In most cases ISY even sees the existing scenes. Minor adjustments may need to be made. By factory reseting you are making it so you have to rebuild all the links, this is just a whole lot of unnecessary work.

All devices should always be factory reset before adding them to ISY. Hundred of posts and threads here have been from users having lingering links and setups inside Insteon devices that have messed them up for clean usage.

Cripes I even had a new device, right out of the package, send out reverse status information. People have had ghost operations on devices that were receiving X10 signals left inside from factory testing or just bad manufacturing process bits left in the wrong places in device memory.

Always factory reset every device before linking to your ISY. If the device was setup previously in ISY, a simple restore from the admin console will reset the links and scenes back to what ISY thinks they should be. If the device has any settings made outside of ISY these should all be removed by factory resetting the device. To leave links and setups in a device is asking for trouble, as evidenced by the number of ghost problems in these threads from many user over the years resolved by simply factory resetting their devices and restoring them or even having to start over.

[lilyoyo1]

23 hours ago, ase said:

Not once Have I had any such thing happen, I have moved from 3 different PLMs, 2 different Insteon hubs, and from ISY to ISY on Polisy. Not a single link issue in all that movement. I literally moved the Entire setup from one Home to another. Not One Issue. Like I said Keep a speadsheet of every single link made and what it does. You will NEVER need to do the factory reset. You can use the tools in ISY and as well as the more than a dozen compatible CLI insteon libraries to strip out invalid links, if you EVER find one. I have done literally more than a dozen full rebuild of my system with more than 75 devices and not a SINGLE bad link. The only time a bad link is going to occur is if you did local links and failed to properly remove the item when you removed it from the network. 

ISY has always been perfect on removing links from devices when added.

I would say bad links are proof that you are not installing and uninstalling devices properly the first time, and do not understand the topology of Insteon in the First place. 

I can tell you right now with the number of micro-dimmers It would be impossible to factory reset every time. Absolutely impossible. I am sure that is WHY the option to have ISY remove all existing links was added in the first place. 

You are talking about Theoretical best practices VS Real world Best practices. Theoretically yes factory reset everything every time, reality is if you install everything properly the first time and document every single step that was done, you won't have issues down the line! And far too often as has been pointed out we tell people factory reset this or that, and then expect the problem is fixed.

The problem with this mentality is it fails to troubleshoot the real problem, the people. If we tell someone to factory reset and then they go about setting things up in the same way they did before, it is HIGHLY LIKELY they will recreate the exact same issue. 

The fact of the matter is, that he does a factory reset for every single device and repairs everything he did, he will probably end up with the exact same problems he had, we have wasted his time, our time, and just made him more frustrated. This is why it is important to read the manual and if you want to understand it better the white papers. For instance did you know that you can simply kill the power to most insteon devices and this will reset the active link list to the one in NVRAM so if you have device that is acting odd or has a bad link, the very first thing you should do is flip the breaker on that device and then allow it to restart. Insteon devices like any other are susceptible to solar flare and other EMI.

People often forget these chips are just as susceptible as your PC or phones, and sometime just need a reboot. 

Get what I am saying, telling people to just do a factory reset and everything will just work again is wishful thinking, we need to teach them how to build it out properly in the first place and then they will never have to do a factory reset unless the device really is malfunctioning. 

I am going to assume you have never taken a cisco networking and troubleshooting class. They have an excellent method.

1. Physical, check all connections, power so on?

2. Device is ON?

3. Is software loaded?

4. Can you communicate with the unit in anyway?

5. Are settings proper?

6. If unit is still not working properly do a soft reset.

7. If soft reset doesn't work do hard reset.

(RANT)

So first off we have told this poor guy to start all over for a beeping light switch, we all know this is a locally enableable feature that if turned on outside of ISY wouldn't be turned off by ISY. We know he did a scan with his hub on! This means his hub was never removed from the link table of any device. We as a group could have made it very clear that removal of the hub should be done, which can be done from the hub itself, he doesn't need to run around and manually factory reset. Even if the solution to factory reset the proper one, no one told him that there are tools like https://www.insteonsoftware.com/ as well as more than a dozen tools to do all of that from a desktop. No one told him there is a whole suite of tools that can be accessed via ssh on the hub itself. 

And we wonder why newbies get frustrated. I love UD, but this forum sometimes really leads people down a bad path with just assuming they know this or that or even worse that some hack patch method is the right one. 

I know we are not UD and do not represent them in anyway, but some of the advice I see here from the supposed know it alls is just abysmal. The biggest problem is that these people are not being instructed in how to properly install and document the items in the first place, then they try to get it to work the best way they can, which screws things up, and then come back here and get the most heartbreakingly frustrating advice one can get "start over". Then they do it all again and have the exact same problem. Then the answers they get come off as condescending(I am just as guilty here). But the real problem is that the "experts" aren't really tech savvy they just are versed well enough in this niche that the newbies think they are experts. What really pisses me off is often the "start over" advice is often because of bad advice given by the same people that screwed things up so bad that start over is all that is left. If just a fraction of the people here read and understood the white papers of the devices they use it would be a freaking miracle and we would have expert level community. The number of people here who are giving advice say on Polisy which runs on BSD that have never once worked on a BSD system before is unreal. I feel for the UD staff that has to try and sort this out time after time for people. Why is it Theoretically best practice to factory reset, bad setup from bad advice. Too many weekend warriors and not enough professionals here giving advice. So come on people let's do better for the newbies.   

(/RANT)

Just because you never had problems with 3 installs doesn't mean others don't have issues. Plenty of people on here can attest to the multitude of folks who had had issues from importing. 

I am a professional and I factory reset everything. Even with Control 4. While most here may be what you call weekend warriors, many of them probably know more than many installers and can become one themselves if they felt inclined to.

It's funny you try to call out folks like you're a big shot yet talking about 3 installs. I'd trust the veterans who has been here for years with thousands of posts over your 3 months and 25 posts.... Most which do not offer any help at all. 

The fact you're talking about other tools for the hub for someone MOVING AWAY from the hub already shows your lack of understanding. That's like me trying to fix a car after i trade it in. Why bother! Next, you feel it's easier to install strange software on his computer to manage something the Isy can already do. In the time it takes to download, figure it out, etc. He could've simply factory reset his devices and added them to the Isy and start working. 

Let's break this down. He'll ssh into the hub (a device he doesn't want to use), for some unknown reason, download software to manage his links, to the still need to add his devices to the isy. How much sense does that make? Yet, you want to question the credentials of those who has been in the trenches for years seeing what people have been going through and helping solve those problems.

Before you start telling veterans what they don't know and newbies what they should do, maybe you should take the time to learn the product. The hub link resides in the devices whether the hub is on or not. This applies to ALL insteon devices. 

Next, factory resetting the hub does not remove it's link. They'd have to remove the device from the hub to remove it's link. Sure a tool could do that but what's faster? Factory resetting a device, going through the remove process or using some tool for link management? One thing i learned in the military and kept with me over the years is the kiss method (keep it simple stupid). Sometimes the simplest method is the best. 

No one started out telling the op to factory reset everything. Read for context and comprehension before saying something. I told him to factory reset the device and then see what happens. He started clean on his own and now has things running the way he wanted. Only when he said he imported did i say a factory reset on everything would have been said. The fact is he had 1 issue now. Who's to say there wouldn't be others later?

Having best practices is important in this game. Whether it's factory resetting devices to get rid of links that may still exist to keeping spread sheets or backups, we all have our processes that we've found allow us to use the Isy with zero issues. Trying to think you know more than everyone here for whatever reason (and then proceeding to make zero sense) only serves to make others blow back on you regardless of how helpful you may think you are being. 

[Brian H]

Glad you had no issues. Others have until a Factory Reset was done.

[larryllix]

5 hours ago, ase said:

Not once Have I had any such thing happen, I have moved from 3 different PLMs, 2 different Insteon hubs, and from ISY to ISY on Polisy. Not a single link issue in all that movement. I literally moved the Entire setup from one Home to another. Not One Issue. Like I said Keep a speadsheet of every single link made and what it does. You will NEVER need to do the factory reset. You can use the tools in ISY and as well as the more than a dozen compatible CLI insteon libraries to strip out invalid links, if you EVER find one. I have done literally more than a dozen full rebuild of my system with more than 75 devices and not a SINGLE bad link. The only time a bad link is going to occur is if you did local links and failed to properly remove the item when you removed it from the network. 

ISY has always been perfect on removing links from devices when added.

I would say bad links are proof that you are not installing and uninstalling devices properly the first time, and do not understand the topology of Insteon in the First place. 

I can tell you right now with the number of micro-dimmers It would be impossible to factory reset every time. Absolutely impossible. I am sure that is WHY the option to have ISY remove all existing links was added in the first place. 

You are talking about Theoretical best practices VS Real world Best practices. Theoretically yes factory reset everything every time, reality is if you install everything properly the first time and document every single step that was done, you won't have issues down the line! And far too often as has been pointed out we tell people factory reset this or that, and then expect the problem is fixed.

The problem with this mentality is it fails to troubleshoot the real problem, the people. If we tell someone to factory reset and then they go about setting things up in the same way they did before, it is HIGHLY LIKELY they will recreate the exact same issue. 

The fact of the matter is, that he does a factory reset for every single device and repairs everything he did, he will probably end up with the exact same problems he had, we have wasted his time, our time, and just made him more frustrated. This is why it is important to read the manual and if you want to understand it better the white papers. For instance did you know that you can simply kill the power to most insteon devices and this will reset the active link list to the one in NVRAM so if you have device that is acting odd or has a bad link, the very first thing you should do is flip the breaker on that device and then allow it to restart. Insteon devices like any other are susceptible to solar flare and other EMI.

People often forget these chips are just as susceptible as your PC or phones, and sometime just need a reboot. 

Get what I am saying, telling people to just do a factory reset and everything will just work again is wishful thinking, we need to teach them how to build it out properly in the first place and then they will never have to do a factory reset unless the device really is malfunctioning. 

I am going to assume you have never taken a cisco networking and troubleshooting class. They have an excellent method.

1. Physical, check all connections, power so on?

2. Device is ON?

3. Is software loaded?

4. Can you communicate with the unit in anyway?

5. Are settings proper?

6. If unit is still not working properly do a soft reset.

7. If soft reset doesn't work do hard reset.

(RANT)

So first off we have told this poor guy to start all over for a beeping light switch, we all know this is a locally enableable feature that if turned on outside of ISY wouldn't be turned off by ISY. We know he did a scan with his hub on! This means his hub was never removed from the link table of any device. We as a group could have made it very clear that removal of the hub should be done, which can be done from the hub itself, he doesn't need to run around and manually factory reset. Even if the solution to factory reset the proper one, no one told him that there are tools like https://www.insteonsoftware.com/ as well as more than a dozen tools to do all of that from a desktop. No one told him there is a whole suite of tools that can be accessed via ssh on the hub itself. 

And we wonder why newbies get frustrated. I love UD, but this forum sometimes really leads people down a bad path with just assuming they know this or that or even worse that some hack patch method is the right one. 

I know we are not UD and do not represent them in anyway, but some of the advice I see here from the supposed know it alls is just abysmal. The biggest problem is that these people are not being instructed in how to properly install and document the items in the first place, then they try to get it to work the best way they can, which screws things up, and then come back here and get the most heartbreakingly frustrating advice one can get "start over". Then they do it all again and have the exact same problem. Then the answers they get come off as condescending(I am just as guilty here). But the real problem is that the "experts" aren't really tech savvy they just are versed well enough in this niche that the newbies think they are experts. What really pisses me off is often the "start over" advice is often because of bad advice given by the same people that screwed things up so bad that start over is all that is left. If just a fraction of the people here read and understood the white papers of the devices they use it would be a freaking miracle and we would have expert level community. The number of people here who are giving advice say on Polisy which runs on BSD that have never once worked on a BSD system before is unreal. I feel for the UD staff that has to try and sort this out time after time for people. Why is it Theoretically best practice to factory reset, bad setup from bad advice. Too many weekend warriors and not enough professionals here giving advice. So come on people let's do better for the newbies.   

(/RANT)

Wow! Your ad hominem isn't appreciated.

You have no idea what I have been through on the Cisco front, since you wanted to use some brand's quickie training course as you example. Just let me say one thing on that note... I have likely hooked up and setup more Cisco equipment than you will likely ever see. I was on the ground floor of creating a fibre-optic network, connecting three medium size cities in Ontario, supplying most of the major ISPs with data and a few million subscribers.

Currently that network has become an Internet backbone, after we sold the equipment to one of the three major suppliers for Canada. I won't publish the 8 figure money that transpired. That was a sideline from my real career where millions depended on me not making a mistake, every day. Not going into detail because some might wet their diapers.

I have likely shoveled more snow in my life also, so that makes me an expert on Insteon protocols.

Keep shoveling. It is getting deeper,  but always factory reset every Insteon device that comes out of that factory.  Some like to be sure of what they install.

[Gunn]

12 hours ago, ase said:

 

And we wonder why newbies get frustrated. I love UD, but this forum sometimes really leads people down a bad path with just assuming they know this or that or even worse that some hack patch method is the right one. 

I know we are not UD and do not represent them in anyway, but some of the advice I see here from the supposed know it alls is just abysmal. The biggest problem is that these people are not being instructed in how to properly install and document the items in the first place, then they try to get it to work the best way they can, which screws things up, and then come back here and get the most heartbreakingly frustrating advice one can get "start over". Then they do it all again and have the exact same problem. Then the answers they get come off as condescending(I am just as guilty here). But the real problem is that the "experts" aren't really tech savvy they just are versed well enough in this niche that the newbies think they are experts. What really pisses me off is often the "start over" advice is often because of bad advice given by the same people that screwed things up so bad that start over is all that is left. If just a fraction of the people here read and understood the white papers of the devices they use it would be a freaking miracle and we would have expert level community. The number of people here who are giving advice say on Polisy which runs on BSD that have never once worked on a BSD system before is unreal. I feel for the UD staff that has to try and sort this out time after time for people. Why is it Theoretically best practice to factory reset, bad setup from bad advice. Too many weekend warriors and not enough professionals here giving advice. So come on people let's do better for the newbies.   

(/RANT)

Thank you @ase, my feelings exactly. And seeing as I posted this in the "New User" sub-forum, it's a real turn-off coming here and reading some of these responses to my rather simple question.

Good day, this topic can be closed.

[larryllix]

9 hours ago, Gunn said:

Thank you @ase, my feelings exactly. And seeing as I posted this in the "New User" sub-forum, it's a real turn-off coming here and reading some of these responses to my rather simple question.

Good day, this topic can be closed.

You were given good advice from several experienced users, that  was consistent and all attempting to help you from their experiences with  thousands of Insteon devices.  Some are professional installers with years of experience. You were also given a contrary opinion from a forum newbie attempting act like an expert and being snarky due to being called out on his lack of experience with Insteon devices. He does seem to have a lot to offer in many areas though.

Take your pick. People tried to help you and you have the right to discover what works, as your experience grows for yourself. You should have no complaint with the advice given, from people trying to help you resolve your problem.

I suggest you read the thread again and think about what actually transpired. Many here love to help newbies come up to speed. Nobody is getting paid anything. They just like to see others succeed with their systems, as they have. This forum is known for it's good support like no other forum.

All the best.

[MrBill]

On 12/12/2021 at 8:12 PM, larryllix said:

cannot be heard more than a few feet away.

truth is I can't hear Insteon switches when they beep.  My wife sometimes can, but not always.  My granddaughters can hear them 50 feet away.   We must admit that as we age our hearing changes.

On 12/18/2021 at 11:47 PM, ase said:

You don't need to do factory reset on anything.

As others have, I strongly disagree with this statement.   Three specific areas that I believe a factory reset should always be completed 1) when the device is new, before it is installed.  Time has proven well that the factory ships devices that have random trash bytes in the link space.  2) when an Insteon HUB is being removed from the system.  In this case I can say "been there, done that"... I started with an Insteaon Hub I didn't have it long before I found the need to upgrade... I assumed I could have both, there's a thread around here somewhere were I was helped and told to factory reset the devices. I didn't want to, it was a PITA, I eventually did after trying everything else first.  I should have just listened when first told. 3) Anytime a switch acts "weird" the first line of defense is "factory reset" and then "Restore Device" (no relinking necessary in this case.)

 

On 12/19/2021 at 7:29 AM, ase said:

no one told him that there are tools like https://www.insteonsoftware.com/ as well as more than a dozen tools to do all of that from a desktop. No one told him there is a whole suite of tools that can be accessed via ssh on the hub itself. 

That's because we shouldn't be using other tools....  The ISY should know every setting in the switch.  Using a 3rd party tool to make a change is the equivalent of manually linking...  the best advice is factory reset the device and LET THE ISY MANAGE IT... Every single setting... not just some of them.

 

[lilyoyo1]

On 12/18/2021 at 11:26 PM, Gunn said:

I have exactly that. An Excel spreadsheet with all of my devices listed which includes their name, their Insteon address, where they are located, they model number and firmware revision, etc. However, I don't know how that would prevent me from having to run around pushing buttons and linking? The only way to perform a factory reset is to do exactly that...run around push buttons. 

Then this should be more clearly written in the instructions. After all, I was/am a newbie...just following instructions from plugging it in to adding my first device. The way I did it was one of the options: add one device and have the ISY crawl through the network adding devices it found in links. So that's what I chose. If this is not a proper way to do it, then that option should be removed. 

Bottom line, none of this should have caused my switch to begin beeping, just like all of the older posts. And once it began beeping, the ISY should have reflected that mode of operation. And then I should have been able to have the ISY tell my switch to STOP beeping. The ISY caused it, it should have been able to fix it. 

The Isy is an advanced controller designed for individuals who want to get more out of their system than what the hub can do. 

Whether it's the Isy or something else complicated, anytime you try and take shortcuts, you'll most likely run into issues. This is why you received certain advice from people. Yes, it sucks to run around and press buttons but you don't have to do that if you have your device address list. Since you would've done so factory resetting things, you can do that process at the same time. 

The instructions were written from a clean slate perspective. If they tried to cover every scenario in the instructions, no one would read it and most likely return the unit thinking things were harder than they are. As a DIYer, there's a certain expectation of product knowledge and that you'll take the time to do research and ask questions for better understanding. 

There is a manual that covers alot. It's called the Isy cookbook and runs a few hundred pages. Can you imagine that being the instruction sheet?

The add existing links should not be removed. Many advanced users run multiple systems and can use that since they know the inherent risks and how to mitigate them. It's also great for if you lose the id to a sensor. You can manually link it to another device, as that device to the Isy with that link to get the id number. Workout that, your sensor would be worthless. 

It has use cases. Knowing the how's and why's simply takes time just like anything else

13 hours ago, Gunn said:

Thank you @ase, my feelings exactly. And seeing as I posted this in the "New User" sub-forum, it's a real turn-off coming here and reading some of these responses to my rather simple question.

Good day, this topic can be closed.

People gave the advice they did because you are a new user. You may not like the advice but it was given to put you in the best possible position to succeed. Whether we do this professionally or our own benefit, we all were in your position at some point, made mistakes, and learned from them. They say experience is the best teacher and with this it's very true. 

[lilyoyo1]

48 minutes ago, ase said:

And everyone starts somewhere. Advanced or not people need to be helped to learn. Over the years of lurking, I found myself downright annoyed with the responses that newbies would get here and have often wondered about the aptitude of the people in the forum. Most never having used anything truly advanced and having learned ISY then give bad advice thinking they know more than they have.

Yet you're on here giving those same newbies incorrect and bad information. How is that helpful to them? 

[Javi]

All,

Please ignore users if you do not agree with them and refrain from posting this type of content as it is no help to anyone.

[lilyoyo1]

30 minutes ago, ase said:

No! No! Duhhhh. Wow. You mean ISY doesn't know what the other tools are doing?(rhetorical) If the point is to clear all other settings. Factory RESET is an option in every single one of those tools. You can do a full factory reset without touching a single button! This IS THE POINT!

The problem with any of you guys giving advice, is while you know ISY, beyond that most of you are clueless. You guys "CLAIM" to be experts, but your not, not by a far shot. You don't understand the protocols, most of you guys are here way way too much to be professionals(as you claim). 

The internet is FULL of half *** advice. You want to help people. Teach them how to properly install and maintain their network. (By the way it is their's NOT YOURS!) But I suspect you guys don't give that advice, not because you don't want to, but, because you CAN'T.

Many of the people here DON'T KNOW HOW to do better, but are so full of EGO that they won't say they don't know.

The real tragedy of that is that "I Don't Know" is the beginning of all  knowledge.

Too Many people here are on what is often referred on the Dunning-Kruger Effect as Mount stupid. You are confident and don't know just how little you know. 

For instance Several of the softwares out there have the option to do a full network reset, they will scan all links and settings and remove them all, all from a CLI interface.  

Do you honestly think that the Support team or refurb teams sit around pushing buttons? Come on Grow up. Your Way isn't the only way, hell most of your advice isn't even the best way. 

I am sorry to have rattled the locks of your little kingdom, but you don't know all. (Neither Do I)

Truth hurts, and the truth is UDI is way beyond kind to you, they have lost business BECAUSE of you, I have seen it in other forums where people have called you in particular some nasty names and said they would not buy UDI because of the POOR SUPPORT ON THIS FORUM!

I AM DONE WITH DEALING WITH YOU!  

How much help have you given over your years of "lurking"? How many systems have you installed? Whether it was me working for someone before going off on my own or my own business, I've installed/assisted on hundreds of various systems. This is in 1000ft apt/condos to 12k SQ ft mansions...In fact, I do work on both coasts. What have you done?

Knowledge gained over the years has helped shaped what I do know whether it's with insteon, zwave, C4, Lutron, or Savant. 

Yes, various softwares can wipe links from insteon devices but that is not the same as a factory reset. Even when doing that, half links can remain.

Here's some insight into smartlabs. When insteon is using their test devices, they have software that will wipe everything from the device. Guess what they still did!!! A full manual reset so that they know it's a clean device. If the people that designed the device does it, I'll go with that over some wanna be pro any day. 

The same goes for their customer support before they outsourced it. They manually factory reset the device as its much easier, faster, and ensured nothing would remain. In the time it would take to delete all links from every device in the home, and rerun the utility to verify, I could have simply factory reset everything and know nothing remained. 

When dealing with a new person, who knows very little already, how much sense does it make to say download XYZ, do abc, and then add them to the Isy? You're introducing additonal things to the picture which can easily overwhelm someone who's about to be overwhelmed anyway. 

You're telling us to teach people how to install. That's exactly what we did. Every single one of us factory resets our devices.

You're more than welcome to teach someone your way if you think it's better and will get them better results. Everyone has their own way of doing stuff. You think yours is the best and that's fine.

Are you prepared to be here and tell those same newbies what software to download, how to use the software, and any other support questions they have? Are you going to be on the forums waiting to see if they get stuck? Give them your personal number to call?  How is it helpful for them to do something more complicated, get stuck and have questions but not be able to get ahold of the person who led them to that point?

A manual factory reset is the easiest way for a new person that doesn't require alot of hand holding.

The fact that the op had other posts with questions which were cleared up pretty much shows a clean slate is the best way regardless of your so called better approach. 

[lilyoyo1]

Just now, ase said:

First off let it go.

Second I didn't get any help from lurking here, none!

I was dealing with home automation probably before you were a thought! I go way back son.

And I am telling you like I did others, leave me alone, you are downright harassing me because I GAVE A BETTER WAY TO DO A FACTORY RESET!

STOP HARASSING. 

I'll leave you alone if you leave. Learn to read for comprehension not to argue. I said how much help have you "GIVEN". 

You didn't give a better way. You gave a different way but that doesn't mean it's better