Programs not working

[JAboud]

I upgraded my 994i to v 5.0.16 in January.  Programs immediately indicated "out of memory" error.  So, I reset my 994i and recreated two of the programs and ran them manually.  I tested each of the insteon light controllers manually and could toggle the lights through the admin console.  However, when left to the schedule, none of the programs are working.  The Summary page indicates that the programs ran, but the lights didn't turn on/off at the scheduled times.  I went back and tested them individually, through the admin console, and they worked.   The Thermostate program doesn't work either.

This has been going on for at least 6 months before the upgrade.  Under the previous version, scheduled programs would randomly work or not.  I was hoping that the upgrade would resolve that problem.  

 

Any help you could offer would be appreciated.

 

 

 

[Techman]

I noticed that you don't have the ISY PRO upgrade. It's possible that you're low on resources.

Click on TOOLS | DIAGNOSTICS | SYSTEM STATUS and take a look at your memory availability.

Also do a PLM link count to see the PLM usage.

Your, firmware and UI look OK

[lilyoyo1]

24 minutes ago, Techman said:

I noticed that you don't have the ISY PRO upgrade. It's possible that you're low on resources.

Click on TOOLS | DIAGNOSTICS | SYSTEM STATUS and take a look at your memory availability.

Also do a PLM link count to see the PLM usage.

Your program, firmware and UI look OK

That's not the issue. Most likely, he upgraded his firmware and didn't read the instructions where it states that he'll possibly need to resave them. 

[slimypizza]

 

Shouldn't this be Sunset to Sunrise?

[JAboud]

lilyoyo1,

Thanks for the reply.  I check the items you suggested.  The images are attached.  One thing you did mention triggered my memory.  I think I do have the pro version. Does that make a difference.

 

[JAboud]

SlimplyPizza - OK  I feel stupid.  Unfortunately, that doesn't address the thermostat issue.

[MrBill]

Just now, JAboud said:

SlimplyPizza - OK  I feel stupid.  Unfortunately, that doesn't address the thermostat issue.

let's see the thermostat program....  Best method to post a program is to click the program name and then right click it and pick copy to clipboard.  then paste into a forum post.

[Geddy]

@JAboud Not that this will help you specific issue, but wanted to suggest you upgrade to 5.3.4 firmware to get up to the most current build for the ISY994 device. It does not appear that you have z-wave (based on one of your earlier attachments), but to be certain that you don't have z-wave you are fully able to upgrade all the way to the latest build of the firmware. 5.0.16C was the last firmware that supported the old style z-wave controller (300 series). There were a lot of bugs and fixes beyond the version you currently have installed. And now that you're on the 5.x you shouldn't have most of the fixes that needed to happen from 4.x to 5.x. So it should be a simple and quick process.

When done make sure you get clear Java Cache (selecting all three boxes in the process) and download the ISY Launcher to put the ISY Launcher link on the desktop. The launcher makes it easier to always confirm your User Interface (UI) and Firmware (FW) match.

As @MrBill posts if you right click on the program and select "COPY to clipboard" (last menu option) then paste it to the reply it's the cleanest way to post a program for support. Make sure it's COPY to clipboard - NOT export!

 

[JAboud]

@Geddy,  Thanks for the information.  I'll upgrade tonight.  

@ SimplyPizza here's the thermostat program

 

[Geddy]

@JAboud One more thing...to tag people use the @ then start typing their name, but you have to select the name from the list that pops up below the typing.

You've got @Geddy, but it doesn't "tag" me so it doesn't send me a notification. If you click on the name after the list comes up it will change to the blue (seen above in my post) and the person will get a notification on the forum.

Should look like this:    

 

 

[JAboud]

@Geddy - Got it.  Thanks.

[Geddy]

@JAboud And sorry...can't really help with the thermostat program...looks okay to me. What are you trying to achieve? 

What kind of thermostat are you controlling? I don't have one connected to my ISY. Haven't seen one that you can set cool and heat at the same time. 

In your earlier screen shot it showed last run time of 7:30am and next run time of 9:30pm It looks like it's running when you want it to. What's it not doing?

I think since you have something in the Else if you change it manually the ISY might try to force it back to the setting you have in the program. If you manually adjust the thermostat now does the ISY force it back to the 75/64 temp you have in the else?

[Techman]

1 hour ago, JAboud said:

lilyoyo1,

Thanks for the reply.  I check the items you suggested.  The images are attached.  One thing you did mention triggered my memory.  I think I do have the pro version. Does that make a difference.

 

 

 

 

Based on your previous screenshot you don't have the pro version. It would show "PRO" after the ISY994i

The standard ISY994i supports 255 nodes. The pro version supports 1024 nodes.

Scenes, folders and device nodes all count towards the total number of nodes supported.

[Geddy]

@Techman but his program was wrong. He doesn't need the "pro" version to fix the issues he's having. his links show 12 (0-11) links in the PLM and 3 (0-2) links on the device tables. So no where close to even running out of room there. 

@JAboud the Pro version is a soft update (meaning you just have to pay for it and it gets applied to your ISY), but it's not something you've got to focus on at this point. How large is your system currently? If just a few devices and handful of scenes you've got all you need at this point.

 

[JAboud]

The thermostat is an Insteon stat.  The overall problem is that none of the programs are working.  Lights don't go on/off when the program runs.  This has been a problem for a while - prior to the 5.x upgrade.  Before the upgrade, when the Night Shutdown would run, some of the lights responded some didn't.  And that varied from day to day.

After the upgrade, none of the lights are controlled.

[lilyoyo1]

20 minutes ago, JAboud said:

The thermostat is an Insteon stat.  The overall problem is that none of the programs are working.  Lights don't go on/off when the program runs.  This has been a problem for a while - prior to the 5.x upgrade.  Before the upgrade, when the Night Shutdown would run, some of the lights responded some didn't.  And that varied from day to day.

After the upgrade, none of the lights are controlled.

See what I said above. You have to resave your programs

[Geddy]

@JAboud As @lilyoyo1 says you might need to re-save the programs. Also, did any of the programs use "adjust scene" when you were on 4.x? That really takes a little re-working for each program when you upgrade to 5.x.

From the release of 5.x upgrades:

Quote

-      If you are upgrading from version 5.0.8 or earlier, you will have to manually update the Adjust Scene entries in all of your programs.

You had a screen shot of the program summary page, but only showed 2 programs. Do you have more than just the 2 programs?

On the summary page are any of them yellow? Or say something about out of memory or other strange error? (I forget the actual wording, but you can find references to it elsewhere in the forums). Basically that means the programs didn't convert correctly in the upgrade.

Although, you might have other issues since they were not working correctly prior to the upgrade either. Let's fix the upgrade issue first. Then we can troubleshoot if you might have bigger issues since things weren't working prior to the upgrade. 

 

Let's do this...get updated to version 5.3.4. (just to make sure...you're not running any z-wave are you? If not then 5.3.4 is good for you!)

Review ALL your programs (click on each program). Look for any "adjust scene" issues. Then SAVE the programs again. Make sure none of them have a little green arrow on the program itself. Also, on the summary page they should all look the same as what you pasted above (at least for line 1. Line 2 appears to be the selected line in that screen shot). 

After upgrading to 5.3.4 find a program you would like to resolve (like the sunset/sunrise above). Right click on that program to "Copy to clipboard". Paste that program here. Describe what you are trying to accomplish with the program. We'll be able to review here and give you some tips of what might need to change in the way the program is written. 

Often times it's as simple as removing something from the "Else" of the program. 

Hope that works out. Make sure when you upgrade though that you follow each step of the process in order. 

Quick note just to be sure...you will download a ZIP file. DO NOT unzip that file! The ZIP file is what you use to upgrade the ISY994. 

Install instructions from the 5.3.4 release post:

Quote

Install:

1.  Backup your ISY (File | Backup ISY)  - Do not backup from a version 3.1.6, or 4.1.1 system (there were bugs in those versions that caused the backup to be corrupted)

2.  Make sure you have done everything in the Prerequisites section

3.  Download firmware

  -  ISY 994i Series including Z-Wave support

  -  ISY 994i ZW, Z, or ZS Series (Z-Wave/Zigbee and/or if you do NOT have a PLM)

4.  Login to the Admin Console and choose Help | Manually Upgrade [the name of your system]

5.  Choose the file downloaded in step 3

6.  After the upgrade, You must clear your Java Cache

7.  Launch the 5.3.0 Admin Console and/or Dashboard by going to the following link:

  -  https://isy.universal-devices.com/start.jnlp

STOP HERE on Step 7! Just use this launcher link. It will assure you that you have the UI matching the FW you installed. Don't try the direct from ISY link. The launcher is more user friendly approach (certainly for Windows users). 

Once you get the programs sorted out then we can look at step 10 of making another backup. But, to be safe as you do make changes once you upgrade do make a backup after major changes to programs so they can be undone if you really mess up. But most of the time it's a simple fix rather than having to restore from a backup.

 

Good luck! Post back any update and looking forward to trying to help once you're upgraded!

 

[MrBill]

@JAboud

14 hours ago, JAboud said:

The overall problem is that none of the programs are working.

Tell me what happans when you click the name of the program, then right click and choose "Run Then" or "Run Else"?  Are the Then and Else bodies running when manually executed via that method?

There is something very specific that I'm using that test to fish for...

[JAboud]

Running "Run Then" worked.  But running the if didn't.  The first time, I got an error saying that couldn't communicate with party lights.  Second time, no error, just didn't work.  I setup a simple third program that turns the upstairs lamp of at 10pm.  Running the IF didn't work but running "Run Then" did.

 

 

[Geddy]

3 hours ago, JAboud said:

Running the IF didn't work but running "Run Then" did.

Running the IF doesn't do you any good if you have it set for a particular time. It's checking if it's 10pm. If you ran it when it wasn't 10pm then nothing would happen. 

What @MrBill was getting you to do was to make sure if the program is ever true that it would fire (work) as you expected. So if you leave your simple program alone at 10pm tonight your party lights should turn off. That's the only time the program would be "true" and trigger the "THEN" portion of the program.

What you did (running the if) would update the summary screen (program tab -> summary). It should now say "last run time" whenever you told it to run the if. 

For instance, I have a program that turns a light on the front of the house 30 minutes before sunset. I just told that program to run the "IF". The light didn't come on because it's not yet 30 minutes prior to sunset. But in the summary tab it updated to "last run time" of when I told it to run.

 

For your other program issue that you don't think is running what is it saying for the last run time and the next scheduled run time? 

The program could be running, but the "THEN" or "ELSE" might not be doing what you expect it to do. Not having a thermostat like you have I don't know if it's possible to set the cool and heat targets at the same time. That might be a heatpump type options, but I have AC and Gas Furnace and we can't set cool and heat at the same time. I know there were "Auto Mode" thermostats in the past, but I haven't seen one in our area in ages. For us "Auto" just refers to the fan/blower. 

In your program:

If you did as @MrBill suggested and Right Click -> "Run Then" and it set the thermostat to 70 and 67 then that portion is possible. Additionally, it should then work as you have the time being the only thing it's checking to be true. But if it didn't do that then you've got to re-think what your program is trying to accomplish. You might need to only set one setpoint depending on if cool or heat is on. That could go in the IF portion and you would need a different program for each. 

Is this thermostat program the only one you're having issue with that was a "problem" before you tried to update to 5.x firmware? 

 

[JAboud]

@Geddy I'm not relaying the problem correctly.  

Before the upgrade - the programs would run but not always successful.  One day the party lights would come on but the driveway and porch lights would not.  The next day, none would work.  The next only the driveway light would come on.  Same program different results.

After the upgrade I had to recreate the programs from my documentation. Today for example, the party lights came on but didn't turn off.  The 2nd floor lamp, didn't turn on.  Today, however, the thermostat did set correctly.

I apologize if I'm not making any sense. The situation seems random and I can' figure out how to adequately portray the problem.

I hope this help clarify things.

[DennisC]

8 hours ago, JAboud said:

@Geddy I'm not relaying the problem correctly.  

Before the upgrade - the programs would run but not always successful.  One day the party lights would come on but the driveway and porch lights would not.  The next day, none would work.  The next only the driveway light would come on.  Same program different results.

After the upgrade I had to recreate the programs from my documentation. Today for example, the party lights came on but didn't turn off.  The 2nd floor lamp, didn't turn on.  Today, however, the thermostat did set correctly.

I apologize if I'm not making any sense. The situation seems random and I can' figure out how to adequately portray the problem.

I hope this help clarify things.

Have you tried right clicking on each device and running Restore device? There might be a problem with the links.

[MrBill]

15 hours ago, Geddy said:

But if it didn't do that then you've got to re-think what your program is trying to accomplish.

while this is also true, what i really had in mind when i said...

On 2/26/2022 at 7:21 AM, MrBill said:

There is something very specific that I'm using that test to fish for...

was FOLDER CONDITIONS.  If the folder the program is in, or any folder above it has a negative condition "Run Then" and "Run Else" won't run the programs manually.  Since "Run then" worked it doesn't appear to be a folder condition.

9 hours ago, JAboud said:

@Geddy I'm not relaying the problem correctly.  

Before the upgrade - the programs would run but not always successful.  One day the party lights would come on but the driveway and porch lights would not.  The next day, none would work.  The next only the driveway light would come on.  Same program different results.

After the upgrade I had to recreate the programs from my documentation. Today for example, the party lights came on but didn't turn off.  The 2nd floor lamp, didn't turn on.  Today, however, the thermostat did set correctly.

I apologize if I'm not making any sense. The situation seems random and I can' figure out how to adequately portray the problem.

I hope this help clarify things.

This now sounds like an intermittent Noise issue....

How old are the devices? are they dual band or single band?

There's a number of troubleshooting articles:

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=Main_Page#INSTEON_2

the short story tho, is the ISY is doing what the ISY is supposed to be doing, but the signals aren't getting though to remote devices.   

I had a 2466 switch once get taken out by lightning.  It produced constant noise that prevented anything Insteon from working until i figured it out and disconnected the switch.  We also once had a countertop deep fryer in the kitchen, if it was plugged in, turned off or turned on, thermostat satisfied Insteon wouldn't work.  We lived with that because it was only used for a short time once a week.  Other's have reported various tool chargers, fluorescent lights, even some cheap LED bulbs that produce electrical noise.

My troubleshooting method is to first suspect anything new. (this wouldn't apply in your case because you've had the problem for a long time.   Next, I turn off half the breakers in the panel (ignoring the single circuit that has the ISY, network etc) if the problem goes away, I turn half of the off breakers back on and retest... if it didn't go away I turn that half back on and the other half off.  Then retest.  Gradually turning batches of breakers back on until i get it down to just one that causes the problem.  Once i know that I go explore what's on that circuit... once found you either eliminate the problem or install a noise filter.

Some other things to keep in mind about intermittent "noise" problems.  think about "what's on" at the time things didn't work.  For example, I remember someone that tracked it down to when a bathroom exhaust fan was on.

If the front light (for example) always turn on, but never turn off... they themselves might be the problem.  They turn on because there's no electrical noise present, but the low voltage transformer running the lights powers up, creating noise, and now the switch can't hear anymore.

I've talked mostly about "Noise creators" but there's also "signal suckers".. devices that soak up insteon signals preventing them from reaching a device.

[Geddy]

12 hours ago, JAboud said:

Before the upgrade - the programs would run but not always successful.  One day the party lights would come on but the driveway and porch lights would not.  The next day, none would work.  The next only the driveway light would come on.  Same program different results.

Interesting...yeah, I think both @DennisC and @MrBill might be on the right direction of troubleshooting the issue.  Since it's been going on a long time something could have gone bad or something added noise to your system and it will be difficult to find. @MrBill's method of hunting for noise is perfect! Good luck with the process.

Keep us posted on your findings. 

[JAboud]

Sorry for the ghosting, been under the weather.  So here's some new updates.  Of the lights in my program:  Driveway, upstairs lamp, and party lights,  only the Driveway light is responding appropriately.  If the party lights turn on, they won't turn off, but they rarely turn on.  @MrBill - I've checked and the folder option.  I've recreated it, even though it was already set that way.

 

Today, I received an error saying that the Admin console couldn't communicate with the part lights.  Given it's age, 9 years, I should probably replace it.  My hesitance is that I don't want to throw more money into the system only to have thee same problems.  

 

@MrBill- I'll give the breaker test a shot tonight and let you know.

Thanks to all for their help!