Routines using ISY variables as motion sensors have stopped working

[larryllix]

2 minutes ago, macjeff said:

what verson of the ISY   There is a 5.4.0 and a 5.4.0_2 and 5.4.0_3.

sudo service isy stop

sudo pkg upgrade isy

 

sudo service isy start

 

should bring in 5.4.0_3 which I think is newest.

 

Wonder if 5.4.0 even has issue.  I actually just realized I only did this test on _2 and _3.

 

But it worked for others including me several times.

Read the posts in this thread. ISY and ISY Portal are not involved.

Edited March 6, 2022 by larryllix

[macjeff]

Just now, larryllix said:

Amazon Routine announcements require IFTTT.  None of my 40 routines function right now,   despite all just being rebuilt (replaced the skill devices that were removed by disabling the skill) again. All pathways have been tested and function perfectly from ISY to voice output. The Routines are not being trigger by tested and proven alexa devices.

I dont even have an IFTTT account and have about 50 different anoucements with routines.  You use Variables.  A lot faster than IFTTT.  Set variable to 1 when an event you want to announce occurs in a program  Expose the variable to alexa as a motion sensor with motion value of 1.  Create routine (SEE SCREENSHOT) where when the motion sensor (fake variable sensor) detects motion announce.  I chose all devices and also send a notification to the phone.

IFTTT is slow. I tried it once and killed it.

 

 

[macjeff]

7 minutes ago, larryllix said:

Read the posts in this thread. ISY and ISY Portal are not involved.

You are posting in the wrong topic then. 

The topic is "Routines using ISY variables as motion sensors have stopped working"  

We are talking about ISY Variables used as motion sensors (and actually real motion and contact sensors too as well as LOCKs) do not trigger routines

The IFTTT should be in another topic about IFTTT.  That may still be broken but for the topic of this forum the fix we have has worked on several installs.   If its not on yours I will try to help but I cant support IFTTT as I dont know it.

Edited March 6, 2022 by macjeff

[larryllix]

2 minutes ago, macjeff said:

You are posting in the wrong topic then. 

The topic is "Routines using ISY variables as motion sensors have stopped working"  

We are talking about ISY Variables used as motion sensors (and actually real motion and contact sensors too as well as LOCKs) do not trigger routines

The IFTTT should be in another topic about IFTTT.  That may still be broken but for the topic of this forum the fix we have has worked on several installs.   If its not on yours I will try to help but I cant support IFTTT as I dont know it.

You don't seem to understand how many Routines function, and also haven't read the responses to this where people have told you they have tested all the ISY components as functioning right into the Alexa software.

 

[tmorse305]

18 minutes ago, macjeff said:

what verson of the ISY   There is a 5.4.0 and a 5.4.0_2 and 5.4.0_3.

Even after the upgrade it still shows 5.4.0.  Can you see 5.4.0_3 in your AC?

 

[macjeff]

1 minute ago, larryllix said:

You don't seem to understand how many Routines function, and also haven't read the responses to this where people have told you they have tested all the ISY components as functioning right into the Alexa software.

 

I know that inside alexa the device is being changed but Michel has told me he is 100% sure the devices are being blacklisted when the ISY reboots.  They have to write in some throttling so this does not happen.   For many of us (and every time for me) all I have to do is disable and re-enable the skill after each ISY reboot.  That is a band aid until the permanent fix comes out. If it does not solve IFTTT then I cant help.  Maybe someone will find a fix for that.  But I literally spent all day Thursday and Friday and even restored my ISY from backup trying to fix this.  I can confirm it does not work although Amazon does see the motion sensor or locks change in their app so the data is getting there but at that point the routine wont trigger due to blacklist.

btw...I do know how they work.  I was on the prototype team for Alexa when all the Echo could do is tell you the weather and play music  and tested for UD all the way including routines.

I have a master ticket in with Amazon on this and upper level can see the issue but they said its the Skill.  Universal Devices said they will work on it but it may not be right away.  So I came up with the workaround.  I am sorry if it does not work for you, but it has for many.

[macjeff]

1 minute ago, tmorse305 said:

Even after the upgrade it still shows 5.4.0.  Can you see 5.4.0_3 in your AC?

 

No. ISY shows the current x.x.x version not the _version.

You would have seen it in the log as it was installing with SSH

It would say do you want to install with 5.4.0_3 at the end and you say Y and it installs

Sudo and do PKG VERSION and it will show you all the versions.  My ISY shows _03

[oberkc]

24 minutes ago, larryllix said:

Amazon Routine announcements require IFTTT

???

I have amazon routines that are announcements, but don’t use IFTTT.  What am I missing?

[macjeff]

Just now, oberkc said:

???

I have amazon routines that are announcements, but don’t use IFTTT.  What am I missing?

I dont use it either. I think it used to be the only way.  Now using real motion, contacts, or locks or a variable is the way I think is superior but thats my opinion and I dont want to be attacked for my opinion

[tmorse305]

Thanks, upgrading to the 5.4.0_3 solved the problem for me.  All routines are working again including IFTTT.  Thanks for your help and patience's as we all try to sort this problem out.  It really looks like an Amazon problem but it has to be a mixture of both Amazon and ISY since the _3 version has fixed it for me.

Now I just have to remember to disable/enable the skill each time I reboot ISY until they fix the throttling issue.

Edited March 6, 2022 by tmorse305

[macjeff]

3 hours ago, tmorse305 said:

Thanks, upgrading to the 5.4.0_3 solved the problem for me.  All routines are working again including IFTTT.  Thanks for your help and patience's as we all try to sort this problem out.  It really looks like an Amazon problem but it has to be a mixture of both Amazon and ISY since the _3 version has fixed it for me.

Now I just have to remember to disable/enable the skill each time I reboot ISY until they fix the throttling issue.

Thanks for posting  Let me send a better instructions since I was mistaken   5.4.0_2 and 5.4.0_3 fix the issue not 5.4.0 even.  I mis-spoke earlier and apologize. 

sudo service isy stop

sudo pkg upgrade isy

sudo service isy start

pkg version

check ISY is now 5.4.0_3

 

NOW it may work right away or it may not.  If not go to Alexa app, skills, search for ISY optimized for Smarthome v3, disable it.  IMMEDIATELY reenable it.  Now it should work.

 

If you reboot your ISY or your Polisy reboots due to power failure (You should put your Polisy on a battery backup but not the PLM) then you will have to do the alexa step again most likely

 

Edited March 6, 2022 by macjeff

[tmorse305]

1 hour ago, larryllix said:

Read the posts in this thread. ISY and ISY Portal are not involved.

Keep an open mind, you just never know.

[larryllix]

3 hours ago, macjeff said:

I dont use it either. I think it used to be the only way.  Now using real motion, contacts, or locks or a variable is the way I think is superior but thats my opinion and I dont want to be attacked for my opinion

I haven;t found any other way to make an announcement on more than one Alexa speaker without using their IFTTT connection. For just one speaker, it is a different data pathway, and doesn't require IFTTT.

Note that IFTTT isn't something the user sets up. It is built in to the Alexa app software and the user may not even be aware of using it.

[larryllix]

3 hours ago, oberkc said:

???

I have amazon routines that are announcements, but don’t use IFTTT.  What am I missing?

Only one speaker can be involved with "Say". To  announce on your selection of multiple speakers Alexa uses IFTTT. Check the title of the sections above your selections where it is revealed.

Some of the menus have changed recently. I don;t even see "make an announcement" anymore???

[macjeff]

 

8 minutes ago, larryllix said:

Only one speaker can be involved with "Say". To  announce on your selection of multiple speakers Alexa uses IFTTT. Check the title of the sections above your selections where it is revealed.

Some of the menus have changed recently. I don;t even see "make an announcement" anymore???

You dont use SAY.  Say is for only the alexa you are talking to so thats why IFTTT can only use one.  You have to use MESSAGING.   Use messaging.   Under that choose send announcement.  Type what you want to say   Hit next and then it asks you which devices.  Choose ALL DEVICES and then it announces in all of them.

Screenshots below

[oberkc]

45 minutes ago, macjeff said:

You have to use MESSAGING.   Use messaging.   Under that choose send announcement.  Type what you want to say   Hit next and then it asks you which devices.  Choose ALL DEVICES and then it announces in all of them.

That is how I did it, as well.  All Devices.  Once device.  Any combination of any devices.

[macjeff]

13 minutes ago, oberkc said:

That is how I did it, as well.  All Devices.  Once device.  Any combination of any devices.

For all fairness, when it first came out the SAY option was the only option.  I worked with them to allow messages to all devices.  So no one should have to use IFTTT for messaging purposes unless there is some other need. 

[larryllix]

49 minutes ago, macjeff said:

 

You dont use SAY.  Say is for only the alexa you are talking to so thats why IFTTT can only use one.  You have to use MESSAGING.   Use messaging.   Under that choose send announcement.  Type what you want to say   Hit next and then it asks you which devices.  Choose ALL DEVICES and then it announces in all of them.

Screenshots below

OK Thanks.

They definitely have changed the app a fair bit and I have trouble finding these items again. I set most of my routines up a few years ago. I have some that use "Say" and IFTTT for multi-speakers but looking at them again didn't reveal where IFTTT was used. I did find the small IFTTT title at the top of the bottom grouping of outputs though.

BTW: I did try your disable / enable skill with the shortest time period I could manage and it didn't disconnect my pseudo devices for the routines. Nice find!  I wonder if the timing is related to the success of this. I am still running IoP v5.4.0. This has been a PITA for a long time with routines and I have placed several support complaints with amazon over the last few years only to achieve no response, yet....but things do seem to clear up after each complaint...so far. hmmmm...maybe that is not completely true. IIRC they responded a few months later once.

Also. I have now tried the sudo service....etc to update my IoP but I cannot find any trace of any firmware updated version. Is there some place to find a clue what actual version is installed? My Help | About  pulldown and ISY Finder always show "5.4.0"

Thanks again!

[macjeff]

1 minute ago, larryllix said:

OK Thanks.

They definitely have changed the app a fair bit and I have trouble finding these items again. I set most of my routines up a few years ago. I have some that use "Say" and IFTTT for multi-speakers but looking at them again didn't reveal where IFTTT was used. I did find the small IFTTT title at the top of the bottom grouping of outputs though.

BTW: I did try your disable / enable skill with the shortest time period I could manage and it didn't disconnect my pseudo devices for the routines. Nice find!  I wonder if the timing is related to the success of this. I am still running IoP v5.4.0. This has been a PITA for a long time with routines and I have placed several support complaints with amazon over the last few years only to achieve no response, yet....but things do seem to clear up after each complaint...so far. hmmmm...maybe that is not completely true. IIRC they responded a few months later once.

Also. I have now tried the sudo service....etc to update my IoP but I cannot find any trace of any firmware updated version. Is there some place to find a clue what actual version is installed? My Help | About  pulldown and ISY Finder always show "5.4.0"

Thanks again!

Just ssh in and type 

pkg version

 

It will list all packages.  Isy should have the _3 after it.  But your right the console does not show the _subversion.  

[larryllix]

3 minutes ago, macjeff said:

Just ssh in and type 

pkg version

 

It will list all packages.  Isy should have the _3 after it.  But your right the console does not show the _subversion.  

Thanks!

I used

pkg version | grep isy
 

Yes, I am running v5.4.0_3

[macjeff]

2 minutes ago, larryllix said:

Thanks!

I used

pkg version | grep isy
 

Yes, I am running v5.4.0_3

That works also.  I sent the command to list all so people could use it to check everything and its simple

But you are good!!!

Now try the disable and re-enable fast.   and hopefully it fixes IFTTT    If not then use variables with the Messaging command

[larryllix]

10 minutes ago, macjeff said:

That works also.  I sent the command to list all so people could use it to check everything and its simple

But you are good!!!

Now try the disable and re-enable fast.   and hopefully it fixes IFTTT    If not then use variables with the Messaging command

Maybe you missed my previous posts. That is what I already reported before updating my IoP version.

However, I have been using "Messaging" for years and it is listed under the IFTTT title with the other action techniques. Now,  I think we have been reading this incorrectly!  IFTTT was formerly in a solid grey band, as a title, above all the action methods listed below it.  Now IFTTT appears as just another entry with a distinctly different font!  grrrrrr.... I believe I have been trying to tell @oberkcthis (falsely) based on the old screen layout that has fooled many people.

OK I take back all the IFTTT crap I have been spouting. Most of us are not likely using IFTTT at all. Just a bad app screen layout. Sorry for that confusion.

[macjeff]

1 minute ago, larryllix said:

Maybe you missed my previous posts. That is what I already reported before updating my IoP version.

However, I have been using "Messaging" for years and it is listed under the IFTTT title with the other action techniques. Now,  I think we have been reading this incorrectly!  IFTTT was formerly in a solid grey band, as a title, above all the action methods listed below it.  Now IFTTT appears as just another entry with a distinctly different font!  grrrrrr.... I believe I have been trying to tell @oberkcthis (falsely) based on the old screen layout that has fooled many people.

OK I take back all the IFTTT crap I have been spouting. Most of us are not likely using IFTTT at all. Just a bad app screen layout. Sorry for that confusion.

I read it as the last thing you did was install the _03 so I was wondering if that changed anything.

[larryllix]

5 minutes ago, macjeff said:

I read it as the last thing you did was install the _03 so I was wondering if that changed anything.

It seems (by logic) in the end this was all caused by Amazon "blacklisting" some device packets from ISY Portal, so that no routines using them would function again until refreshed. That is a whole 'nuther kettle of fish.

It doesn't sound like ISY was even involved since it doesn't talk to Amazon directly, but through the ISY Portal bridge system. Sounds like we still need fixes at the ISY Portal and Amazon end. "You send me bad packets and I will destroy ignore you"

Edited March 6, 2022 by larryllix

[macjeff]

3 minutes ago, larryllix said:

It seems (by logic) in the end this was all caused by Amazon "blacklisting" some device packets from ISY Portal, so that no routines using them would function again until refreshed. That is a whole 'nuther kettle of fish.

It doesn't sound like ISY was even involved since it doesn't talk to Amazon directly, but through the ISY Portal bridge system. Sounds like we still need fixes at the ISY Portal and Amazon end. "You send me bad packets and I will destroy ignore you"

Yep that pretty much sends it up but I think its the speed of the packets.  Either way the refresh does not seem to hold so for now if you have to restart your ISY there is one more step.  Good news is if you are away and there is a power outage you can go into Alexa app and disable and reenable from remote